Band Director Arrogance?

[Geoff_M]

The problem with the OP's situation is that what ever sport this kid is in is not a school sponsored team, thus they don't get to coordinate schedules. Also, there are how many different club teams for different sports playing at all times of the day, all days of the week. It would be impossible to schedule a concert around these.

While I understand the distinction between a graded school activity and a non-school related sports team, what are your feelings about the event I described in post #18?

The band director changes the dates of the mandatory band camp approximately 60 days in advance and expects all students, and their families, to change off their their schedules, summer travel plans, etc. to meet the new schedule... lest their grade be docked (and we're talking HS, not 6th grade). When the parent brought the conflict to the troop committee, we initially thought the parent was making the date move story up to cover for an oversight on his part, but we confirmed through an independent source that the dates had in fact been moved. We were floored that the guy would do this to his students and their families. "Arrogant" was the exact word we used in the e-mails back and forth... that's why this thread struck a cord with me.

We couldn't believe that the only acceptable solution to the band director was to make the boys' father drive 12 hours each-way to Virginia and pick them up one day ahead of their normal return date (one day late for band camp)... but that's what happened.

 

[golfgal]

While I understand the distinction between a graded school activity and a non-school related sports team, what are your feelings about the event I described in post #18?

The band director changes the dates of the mandatory band camp approximately 60 days in advance and expects all students, and their families, to change off their their schedules, summer travel plans, etc. to meet the new schedule... lest their grade be docked (and we're talking HS, not 6th grade). When the parent brought the conflict to the troop committee, we initially thought the parent was making the date move story up to cover for an oversight on his part, but we confirmed through an independent source that the dates had in fact been moved. We were floored that the guy would do this to his students and their families. "Arrogant" was the exact word we used in the e-mails back and forth... that's why this thread struck a cord with me.

We couldn't believe that the only acceptable solution to the band director was to make the boys' father drive 12 hours each-way to Virginia and pick them up one day ahead of their normal return date (one day late for band camp)... but that's what happened.

Our kids are in marching band and we know you just don't schedule anything during band season, period. If you are scheduling a vacation near band season that is just the chance you take in my opinion. You don't HAVE to be in marching band. We have a few parents that complain about the schedule, adding sectionals, etc. and they are also told the same thing by other parents, your child doesn't HAVE to be in the band. When you sign up for marching band, you commit to a busy schedule.

 

[Becky2005]

Yep, this is probably mostly about club sports. The odds are that the school coaches and the band director have coordinated their schedules where possible; it is the outside obligations that create the worst conflicts.

That's what I'm thinking and it specifically says the band director will talk to the sports coach. My thinking is that the coaches/music directors already attempted to work something out so there are not so many conflicts.

I know it happened ONCE last year for a choir concert with track or something AND it also happened that the HS & MS both scheduled choir concerts on the same day. I think the HS changed their dates. Some things were shifted. I know originally the choir concert & sports event were NOT scheduled on the same day but it was a make-up game for the sport. I believe what happened is that the 8th graders were allowed to arrive a little late to the concert since they are the last ones to perform...I really don't remember exactly since it didn't affect me personally but the choir director made a mention of it or I wouldn't have even known, so I know those 2 must have talked beforehand to figure out how best to work it out for everyone.

In our case since choir/band/orchestra is an elective -- it's pretty clear up-front that you have to be at the performances unless you are sick.

I know when DH was in school he didn't go to any of the choir concerts even though he was in choir & his argument was that it was in the evening & they couldn't make him do it. Of course, he didn't choose to be in choir either, they just put kids IN choir whether they wanted to be there or not (DH was a didn't want to be there kid). They never pushed the issue but then this was eons ago & I can see his side with this since it wasn't a choice but if it's your choice to join it's pretty much required to go to the concerts.

 

[okeydokey]

This is why you find this out at the beginning of the year. Your son can either miss the performance and take the lowered grade, skip the game if one happens to be scheduled, or not take band. Pretty simple actually.

 

[jen0610]

DD13 just brought home her commitment form for choir. New teacher this year.

His guidelines:

Girls must wear black pants - dark black no faded or washed out black pants, in the spring no capri's or skirts. I am sure that will be getting sent back out, as 3 of the girls in the choir with DD are members of a Mennonite church that only allows the girls to wear skirts. They have to wear dress flats - nothing with a heel or sneaker/gym shoe. They also are going to have to buy a $15.00 polo shirt. He says the t-shirts they they have been wearing for the last several years looks cheap.

Also, according to his guidelines, there are NO EXCUSABLE absences for concerts. Sure hope, there is no outbreak of H1N1 or similar type illness that knocks out 1/2 the school at the same time frame as last year. The fall choir and band concerts last year were very lacking in students do to the sheer number of sick kids. If you do miss the concert, you have to do a 7 - SEVEN - page essay on the importance of fulfilling your commitments to his time and effort in teaching them to sing.

DH has already said, that if she is sick - fever, pucking, or lost her voice sick - he has no issue with loading her up, taking her into the school, getting the principal involved. It is utterly insane to think that a truely sick - documented by having been absent from school and a dr's note - to have to come the concert so that the teacher feels appreciated for his time and effort. Hello...that is what your pay check is for....your time and effort.

I seriously don't see DD staying in choir, if this is how he is going to run the choir. He is going to lose a lot of kids.

 

[Geoff_M]

Our kids are in marching band and we know you just don't schedule anything during band season, period. If you are scheduling a vacation near band season that is just the chance you take in my opinion.

I think you'd agree that there's a distinction between taking a gamble and scheduling family events before band events are announced and "hoping" and planning family events AFTER band events are announced... only to have the band program decide to change previously announced events. Along with that, don't you think the level of "understanding" on the part of the director should vary accordingly? Both of our sons have played travel hockey (another activity where family events mostly grind to a halt during "the season"), and at times when the team managers have had to change previously announced events we've had nothing but understanding from the managers and coaches if our son cannot make the game due to a family event that was planned around the original schedule.

But you're right, band is not required so director's can play hardball if they want to... However, it may not be universal, but I've noticed that a lot of the HS bands around here are noticeably smaller than they used to be. Our older son was on the HS varsity hockey team his Freshman year. He had to miss a rehearsal for a choir event in order to be on the bench for a varsity game. The choir director knew about this conflict ahead of time and punished him as a result of his absence... after this Freshman year, he quit choir.

 

[Scurvy]

The band director changes the dates of the mandatory band camp approximately 60 days in advance and expects all students, and their families, to change off their their schedules, summer travel plans, etc. to meet the new schedule... lest their grade be docked (and we're talking HS, not 6th grade). When the parent brought the conflict to the troop committee, we initially thought the parent was making the date move story up to cover for an oversight on his part, but we confirmed through an independent source that the dates had in fact been moved. We were floored that the guy would do this to his students and their families. "Arrogant" was the exact word we used in the e-mails back and forth... that's why this thread struck a cord with me.

I would have a big problem with that. It's one thing to make plans for during the marching season. Even once the calendar comes out, we'd never make plans we couldn't break for a Friday night or Saturday because sometimes games get rescheduled or competitions are added. It's entirely different to make plans outside of that season. My son had band camp for one week after school got out last year, and another one for two weeks before school started this year. That's three weeks of summer that were devoted to band, which we absolutely didn't mind because band is important to our son. We were given that information before school got out last year. We verified it over the summer on the band website. Then we booked our Harry Potter package at Universal for a week and a half before band camp. If the director had suddenly changed the dates of camp and expected us to cancel our trip (losing quite a bit of money on the process) I would have been very unhappy. I'm fine with devoting the entire marching season to band but I am not going to sit around all summer just in case they change the camp schedule. Fortunately most directors I know are much more reasonable than that. They are upfront about the times that the schedule is likely to change (like Fridays in the fall) so you know to keep your schedule fairly fluid and they also understand that people tend to make more concrete plans for summer, so they don't interfere with those. I don't think most directors would change the initial "report date" for the season once they'd distributed the calendar to the families, even if they do change the schedule often during the season. (I do admit to being annoyed by the changes within the season, but it's something we're willing to deal with, especially since they don't happen often and the director is understanding about important conflicts that some students have.)

 

[FlightlessDuck]

In my mind, a band concert can still go on with a child or two missing but a sports team can't play (and win) if a key player is missing.

What if the child on the sports team isn't a key player?

What if the child missing the band concert is 1st chair, or has a solo?

 

[smb6]

In my experience these strict rules are common and are not limited to band directors. Sport coaches have the same policies. Two of my kids are in band and one is also on the track team. The track coach is equally strict. No missing practices- miss two or more unexcused, your off the team. If you miss a practice the week before the meet (excused or not)- you cannot compete. k

 

[okeydokey]

I think you'd agree that there's a distinction between taking a gamble and scheduling family events before band events are announced and "hoping" and planning family events AFTER band events are announced... only to have the band program decide to change previously announced events. Along with that, don't you think the level of "understanding" on the part of the director should vary accordingly? Both of our sons have played travel hockey (another activity where family events mostly grind to a halt during "the season"), and at times when the team managers have had to change previously announced events we've had nothing but understanding from the managers and coaches if our son cannot make the game due to a family event that was planned around the original schedule.

But you're right, band is not required so director's can play hardball if they want to... However, it may not be universal, but I've noticed that a lot of the HS bands around here are noticeably smaller than they used to be. Our older son was on the HS varsity hockey team his Freshman year. He had to miss a rehearsal for a choir event in order to be on the bench for a varsity game. The choir director knew about this conflict ahead of time and punished him as a result of his absence... after this Freshman year, he quit choir.

I wasn't talking about a situation when they change a previously announced date. I was referring to the OP and his son's decision about his band attendance. If you let a parent know a date so they can plan around you and then you change it, you can't expect them all to be able to attend.

 

[padams]

The bottom line is that by middle school, students have to start making choices. As activities take up more time, there is no longer time to do everything. When they are preschoolers, it's easy to schedule a weekly mommy and me music class, a gymboree class, and an arts and crafts class. By middle school, the music class has turned into band/orchestra in school with after school private lessons and concerts. The weekly gymboree class has morphed into year around travel sports with at least 3 nights a week of practice. The arts and crafts class has become turned into an interest in theatre with set building and play practice every day after school for a couple of months at a time. Throw in hours spent in school and on homework, and there is no way it all fits.

To the OP, it doesn't sound like band is a fit for your child is if he doesn't want to miss a sports game for the 2-4 band concerts that will be performed during the school year. If your child really wants to do band, let the coach know the dates of the band concerts now to see if games can be scheduled around your child's absence. Finally, if your child does do band, try not to let your attitude that band directors are arrogant and the rules are unfair rub off on your child. His attitude towards band will affect his grade.

 

[Ceila]

Our kids are in marching band and we know you just don't schedule anything during band season, period. If you are scheduling a vacation near band season that is just the chance you take in my opinion. You don't HAVE to be in marching band. We have a few parents that complain about the schedule, adding sectionals, etc. and they are also told the same thing by other parents, your child doesn't HAVE to be in the band. When you sign up for marching band, you commit to a busy schedule.

The difference is that the band camp was ALREADY scheduled when the families made their plans based on that. THEN the director went and changed the dates of camp and refused to accommodate people who had made their plans based on what HE originally scheduled. BIG difference.

I was in band all from 4th grade through college, and all of my directors were demanding but understanding as well. The situation Geoff_M described wouldn't have happened with them, and it shouldn't have happened to those Scouts, either.