Band Director Arrogance?

[Pigeon]

I must say none of my band teachers would bat an eye if you/family was incredibly sick or dying. They mean sports, appointments that are just checkups or such (because you get the concert dates the first day of school), sickness that's a headache or a cold, stuff like that.

In our school, you wouldn't flunk if you missed a concert for a serious reason, but you would be given some type of alternative assignment, like a lengthy term paper instead.

 

[maxiesmom]

I'm not sure what school your children attend but my childrens school certainly DOES grade on the process of learning Algebra and other classes such as science. It's homework, quizzes, labs, etc.

And our band director also grades written reports, tests etc. on music history.

True, but that is not what the post I was refering to inferred. They made it seem as if in band they played concerts every day at school, therefore they shouldn't have to play them outside of school. That is not the case.

 

[threecrazykids]

That would be an excused absence and the teacher would work it out.

My oldest was in band from 6th-11th and we made it through. You join band and pretty much know the schedule going in.

If you don't like it or it conflicts with stuff, don't take band. Most kids in band love the practices, concerts, and games. That is why they take the class.

My dd dropped band halfway through 11th to take AP European History. She loved history and made the choice to give up band. She was not going to major in music so decided to go in a different direction.

How? According to another poster missed performances can not be made up. Like I said...if it's a sporting event over a band performance then yes, maybe the child will just have to skip the sporting event...BUT when it comes to this "nothing is excused" policy in the handbook is just in line with the "arrogance" part of the OP's post.

And again, I don't like this attitude of "if you know it could conflict with ONE performance and you can't make it...then don't go out AT ALL". Great "team" mentality.

 

[threecrazykids]

True, but that is not what the post I was refering to inferred. They made it seem as if in band they played concerts every day at school, therefore they shouldn't have to play them outside of school. That is not the case.

I see what you're saying now.

 

[maxiesmom]

How? According to another poster missed performances can not be made up. Like I said...if it's a sporting event over a band performance then yes, maybe the child will just have to skip the sporting event...BUT when it comes to this "nothing is excused" policy in the handbook is just in line with the "arrogance" part of the OP's post.

And again, I don't like this attitude of "if you know it could conflict with ONE performance and you can't make it...then don't go out AT ALL". Great "team" mentality.

It is not a team in the sense that you have a substitue that can fill in for you if you are not there. Everyone plays all the time, unlike most sports. One person's absence makes a difference.

I would say, way to teach your child that they don't have to honor their commitments. That they can just skip out on them.

 

[Scurvy]

So then a child that chooses band should participate in NO OTHER extra curricular activities? Because if there is a conflict band ALWAYS wins? I would question whether the band director really has these kids best interest at heart if they have the philosophy that band "superscedes EVERYTHING else if you're out for band so if you might miss ONE performance then I don't want you at all."

My son is in high school band and in several other extracurricular activities and it works just fine. Most of his other activities take things like the school band and other school activities into account when preparing their schedules. They also understand that band has to come first if there's a conflict. If another activity also requires that it come first then obviously a band student has to choose one or the other.

And somehow you seem to have missed the fact that even when the policy states that there are no excused absences for concerts, exceptions can be made, as one was for my son last year. The policy sounds so absolute simply because it helps to cut down on the number of people who ask for exceptions for silly reasons, like the fact that they'd rather participate in a sporting event. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a director who wouldn't excuse a student because of a death in the family, though I suppose people like that could exist.. Do you have some reason to believe your local director would be that unreasonable?

ETA - At my son's school, drama and choir also require students to attend every performance. I believe all the sports require athletes to be at every game or competition as well. It's not limited to band.

 

[Anne34]

Band concerts are rare - maybe once a semester. Games happen all season. If we missed performances, we flunked. It is an academic class.

Our school is the same way. Concerts were usually Wed or Thursday and there aren't often games on those nights -- usually just a practice. I don't see why you have a problem with this requirement. It sounds like band isn't the place for your child.

 

[mr.bungle]

6th grade band usually isn't much of a commitment. I think my elementary school band career consisted of 2 concerts per year. I played 2 or 3 sports and participated in band.

Junior high band became more involved and took more of my time.

High school band was 2/3 of daily life. No time for sports what so ever. But by that time, we had decided that we were musicians and not athletes.

I think in the OP's case, the director has seen many kids just flake out on band gigs because of sports. It affects the other kids who actually showed up to perform. Sometimes there are a few different parts in the music for the same instrument.

It's about teaching the kids to make a commitment and following through. Time management, etc...

I'm sure missing games for sports in maybe a high school situation could reflect poorly on a grade or maybe playing time. Well, you miss a band gig, you're benched - except you can't bench someone in band.

I'm sorry if I'm rambling. I'm a former band geek and the whole sports v. band really gets me worked up. My high school band was one of the best in the state at the time. We struggled to get any support from the school, or anyone other than friends and family. We would get kicked off of our practice field by the baseball team. We had to do so much fund raising because the school gave all the money to the sports teams. We marched in the friggin Rose Parade and what did we get? A muddy practice field with tire tracks from the baseball team and a coach who encouraged them to hit balls at us.

If your kid committed to band, you need to follow through with that and show up to the concerts.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

How? According to another poster missed performances can not be made up. Like I said...if it's a sporting event over a band performance then yes, maybe the child will just have to skip the sporting event...BUT when it comes to this "nothing is excused" policy in the handbook is just in line with the "arrogance" part of the OP's post.

And again, I don't like this attitude of "if you know it could conflict with ONE performance and you can't make it...then don't go out AT ALL". Great "team" mentality.

If you are going to conflict with sports band is not for you.

If you have a death or medical emergency then you talk to the band director.

 

[threecrazykids]

It is not a team in the sense that you have a substitue that can fill in for you if you are not there. Everyone plays all the time, unlike most sports. One person's absence makes a difference.

I would say, way to teach your child that they don't have to honor their commitments. That they can just skip out on them.

I know what you're saying, however...honoring your commitments is one thing and "half assed participating" would NOT be allowed in my house. However...for me it's more about the point of the handbook stating NO performances can be missed for ANY reason. When no other teacher can weigh grades so heavily on ONE thing I don't think it's right for a band director to be able to either.

I mean, do kids really go out for something such as band and NOT want to go to the performances? I guess I just don't see that very often at our school. It would only be in a situation where they were FORCED to choose. And flunking a kid because he doesn't choose band EVERY TIME I just think walks the line of arrogance.

 

[maxiesmom]

I know what you're saying, however...honoring your commitments is one thing and "half assed participating" would NOT be allowed in my house. However...for me it's more about the point of the handbook stating NO performances can be missed for ANY reason. When no other teacher can weigh grades so heavily on ONE thing I don't think it's right for a band director to be able to either.

I mean, do kids really go out for something such as band and NOT want to go to the performances? I guess I just don't see that very often at our school. It would only be in a situation where they were FORCED to choose. And flunking a kid because he doesn't choose band EVERY TIME I just think walks the line of arrogance.

Unfortunately if it wasn't so strongly worded that missing a concert was unacceptable, you would have many kids not showing up. Some kids just take band as a supposedly easy grade. Some have parents who wouldn't want to make the effort to drive the kids to the concerts.

It would be great if every parent would be like you and teach your child that slacking off is not acceptable. But that is unfortunatley not the case.

If there is a true emergancy, most band directors will be understanding. They just have to sound unbending on concerts because you would have parents just flaking out and not taking their child to them.

 

[Pigeon]

Unfortunately if it wasn't so strongly worded that missing a concert was unacceptable, you would have many kids not showing up. Some kids just take band as a supposedly easy grade. Some have parents who wouldn't want to make the effort to drive the kids to the concerts.

It would be great if every parent would be like you and teach your child that slacking off is not acceptable. But that is unfortunatley not the case.

If there is a true emergancy, most band directors will be understanding. They just have to sound unbending on concerts because you would have parents just flaking out and not taking their child to them.

And this is what ticks me off so much. Just say what you mean and stop playing games with it. It's the whole "my activity is more important that finding a cure for cancer" thing.

Our school makes a big pretense of trying to encourage as many kids as possible to play an instrument, and they tell kids that they are happy to share them with the athletic department. Then they pull this attitude.

 

[threecrazykids]

My son is in high school band and in several other extracurricular activities and it works just fine. Most of his other activities take things like the school band and other school activities into account when preparing their schedules. They also understand that band has to come first if there's a conflict. If another activity also requires that it come first then obviously a band student has to choose one or the other.

And somehow you seem to have missed the fact that even when the policy states that there are no excused absences for concerts, exceptions can be made, as one was for my son last year. The policy sounds so absolute simply because it helps to cut down on the number of people who ask for exceptions for silly reasons, like the fact that they'd rather participate in a sporting event. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a director who wouldn't excuse a student because of a death in the family, though I suppose people like that could exist.. Do you have some reason to believe your local director would be that unreasonable?

ETA - At my son's school, drama and choir also require students to attend every performance. I believe all the sports require athletes to be at every game or competition as well. It's not limited to band.

No, no...our band director is actually really great (and happens to be my first cousin ) but we've had hilarious "friendly arguements" over this exact issue. Now, he had a situation where a girl missed a performance to go to a Paramore concert (had purchased tickets BEFORE performance dates were announced)and when he flunked her her parents sued the school. He won it though and I do think she should have been flunked. It is amazing what kids will get their parents to "excuse" for them. But I do give him crap that he is pretty arrogant to think that there are NO excused absences.

He would NEVER flunk a kid if there was a death in the family...but he's told me of band directors that will.

 

[jenrose66]

I disagree. Band is a commitment. Many students take it very seriously and work very hard to prepare for concerts. Depending on the difficulty of the music there may be different parts/harmonies spread out among the same instruments. If that happens and only a couple students play each part than their not being there can really throw off the performance. I'm assuming concerts are scheduled well in advance, if you can't be at the performance then don't join the band.

 

[Pigeon]

No, no...our band director is actually really great (and happens to be my first cousin ) but we've had hilarious "friendly arguements" over this exact issue. Now, he had a situation where a girl missed a performance to go to a Paramore concert (had purchased tickets BEFORE performance dates were announced)and when he flunked her her parents sued the school. He won it though and I do think she should have been flunked. It is amazing what kids will get their parents to "excuse" for them. But I do give him crap that he is pretty arrogant to think that there are NO excused absences.

He would NEVER flunk a kid if there was a death in the family...but he's told me of band directors that will.

See, in that situation, I think your band director was a jerk. If I had shelled out a lot of money for my kid to go to a concert before the schedule was announced, I'd want them not to squander my money. You can't keep your entire life unscheduled on the off chance that a music director will want to use any particular day.

 

[CowboyCO]

See, in that situation, I think your band director was a jerk. If I had shelled out a lot of money for my kid to go to a concert before the schedule was announced, I'd want them not to squander my money. You can't keep your entire life unscheduled on the off chance that a music director will want to use any particular day.

Sell the ticket. There is no commitment to a rock band, or a broadway show. It is about priorities.

 

[Ppufi]

I agree with the harshness of the wording. Believe me, there are band geeks, and then there are people who play because their parents tell them to, and those who think it's an easy A. If there was any loosening of the concert's attendance, the latter two groups wouldn't show up. If you have an urgent dire problem, talk to the director. They -are- still human. Don't like the results, then take it up with someone higher. But the harshness isn't an ego trip.

 

[maxiesmom]

See, in that situation, I think your band director was a jerk. If I had shelled out a lot of money for my kid to go to a concert before the schedule was announced, I'd want them not to squander my money. You can't keep your entire life unscheduled on the off chance that a music director will want to use any particular day.

Actually, you kind of can, if it is important to the child.

My oldest niece plays 3 sports and is in band. We can schedule no family time until we know the sports schedules for the school year. And she doesn't miss band concerts either. The band concerts are around the same time every year, so it is easy to plan for those.

All of this is so time consuming that this summer she only twice had 5 days in a row where she didn't have a commitment of some kind. I thought we could do a quick trip to Disney World right when school got out, and that didn't even work. The day after school ended they had open gym at the school. Add to that sports camps and practices, summer teams, and driving lessons. It is crazy, but my niece wants to do all of the above, so her family made the decision to support her in all her activities.

 

[golfgal]

You may not be able to make up the performance but I would surely hope there was SOMETHING this child could do to earn enough credit to pass. Regardless if you know the schedule ahead of time, life happens. Draging a kids GPA down because of ONE band performance (or ONE test) for that matter is just crazy! For goodness sake, that grade could make or break a kid being eligible for college!

"Mom, Dad...just got my final transcript. Not eligible for a 4 year college."
"Why?"
"Missed that darned band performance for Grandmas funeral."

This thread is about UNEXCUSED absences, which a 6th grade game would be, not EXCUSED absences which you are talking about.

We have a pretty serious band program at our school. There are plenty of kids that are in both band and sports, even marching band and sports. There are a couple sports that really don't work, volleyball and girls soccer. Volleyball has tournaments pretty much every Saturday and the marching band has competitions pretty much every Saturday so there are just too many conflicts to work out so the kids need to make a choice. The girls soccer coach won't let the kids be in marching band so the kids have to chose band or soccer, boys soccer can do both.

If someone chooses to do both they meet with the band directors and the coach and talk through potential conflicts. There are some band competitions that you just can't miss so if you can't make those, you don't get to be in the band.

The school does a pretty good job of scheduling band, choir, dance concerts around the sports schedule and I am not aware of any of these that conflict with any sporting events. They usually have the concerts on Monday nights and games for all the sports are Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, or Saturday. With 90+% of the kids involved in the fine arts program it works.

The problem with the OP's situation is that what ever sport this kid is in is not a school sponsored team, thus they don't get to coordinate schedules. Also, there are how many different club teams for different sports playing at all times of the day, all days of the week. It would be impossible to schedule a concert around these. I am confident that what ever league the OP's child is in has dealt with this issue before and will make accommodations. We also still need to remember we are talking about 6th GRADE sports, certainly not the NBA.

 

[Pembo]

I didnt' read the whole thread...I just loved the title. My brother was a band director for 25 years (and was MY band director)...He was and is one arrogant guy!!! lol