Baited and switched? re: SSR

[T.E. Yeary]

keishashadow-Just to clear things up, we are a "transaction" broker. That simply means we work equally & fairly for both buyer & seller, with no priority given to either.

It's a common misconception that brokers represent the seller as that is how it's been in the past, but in the next year or two, I've forgotten the exact date, (according to my latest FREC course) all brokers in Florida will be "transaction" brokers unless otherwise stated in the paperwork given to the buyer & the seller.

We have always been a "transaction" broker and is so stated in our paperwork to buyer & seller.

Tom

 

[Sammie]

I think also sometimes the confusion lies in terminology.

If one asks an agent is there anyway to buy at a sold out location and they reply No, then that is not accurate. If one asks does Disney purchase every ROFR and the reply is Yes, then that is not accurate.

Saying they exercise ROFR on every resale is also probably accurate it just not does mean they end up with them. But they certainly have first dips.

However if one asks a Disney agent are other locations available and the agent says No, then actually there aren't any available from Disney and therefore it is not a lie. As far as Disney and the product they are selling, there are not any available.

If an agent tells you that you can buy SSR and stay at any DVC that is correct. If the agent tells you that you can buy SSR and also get another location anytime you want it, that is not correct.

Sometimes the answer will greatly depend on the question. So I agree I don't see it as Bait and Switch but sales talk and the buyer needs to be educated in the terminolgy and what is available. I don't think it is Disney's job to do the educating.

 

[hwystr]

Bait & Switch isn't right, but they certainly played up the ability of booking at non-home resorts as a non issue. I also found them to be extremely negative on re-sales. I wanted to make sure DVC was a fairly "liquid" investment, so I could "exit" in ~10 years and recover some of my up-front expenses. They wanted nothing to do with that, and highly discouraged thinking I could re-sell it, basically it was just a 20-30yr prepaid vacation plan. If I hadn't found this website & TSS site, which provide a liquid secondary market for DVC, I would never have bought in. Considering the time value of money, it would take a very long time to break even on DVC if you couldn't re-sell it. With re-sale, you can probably break-even in 3-4yrs.

 

[rinkwide]

...most TS employees are maligned, don't think you can categorize them as bottom-feeders...

Yeah, they're more like big ole' teddy bears.

 

[keishashadow]

Interesting, think it's a very good move in general, certainly helps to level the playing field...certainly would like to see PA follow suit.

BTW, we were very satisfied w/our dealings with your company, especially Pat , professional & honest in all representations.

keishashadow-Just to clear things up, we are a "transaction" broker. That simply means we work equally & fairly for both buyer & seller, with no priority given to either.

It's a common misconception that brokers represent the seller as that is how it's been in the past, but in the next year or two, I've forgotten the exact date, (according to my latest FREC course) all brokers in Florida will be "transaction" brokers unless otherwise stated in the paperwork given to the buyer & the seller.

We have always been a "transaction" broker and is so stated in our paperwork to buyer & seller.

Tom

 

[FlyingfreeWDW]

I'm with Jimmia and others here when they say that we have to remember these guys and gals are sales people. There primary job right now is to sell SSR. They need to point out that you can book the other DVC Resorts. What if SSR doesn't appeal to someone viewing it with a guide? Should the guide just say, "oh well." No, he or she goes on to tell the guest about booking the other resorts at 7 months. One of those other resorts may be more appealing to that prospective owner. This is just good sales. Someone asks about the other resorts and the guide says they are sold out, this is an accurate statement. Now with both of the above I'd have a problem with it if in the first scenario the guide says, " You can book BCV, VWL, OKW and BWV with no problems at 7 months. Availability isn't an issue." I'd also have a problem if a prospective owner asked if there was any way to get BCV points and the guide says no. Both of those things would be lying and just plain wrong. Do we really expect a guide to tell us to go to the Timeshare Store? Do we really expect a guide to not mention booking the other resorts?

Now for my personal experience when I purchased. The guide, Doug, really played up booking other places. He even told me all about the Charleston Place Hotel and how great it was. He stated that he uses most of his points there through the CC bookings. He barely told me anything about SSR. He really seemd like he was selling DVC rather than a specific resort. Good tactic on his part with me, because SSR really didn't do anything for me. I bought anyway knowing we travel off season so we'd be able to get in somehwere. We like all of the other DVC Resorts. I also knew I'd be selling in 15 years or so and wanted that longer contract hoping resale value would still be high at that point. I wasn't mislead just wasn't focused solely on SSR.

 

[LIFERBABE]

We originally purchased BCV direct from Disney. SSR was selling and BCV points were almost gone.

After visiting the onsite DVC's, we got on the waitlist to puirchase BWV, OKW and more BCV from Disney.

SSR points were added every 6 months when the really good promos were offered. We decided early on, that SSR was going to be our primary home with scattered visits to the others. Now it is difficult to stay anywhere else.

My guide was excellent and she always kept an eye out for the points i wanted. We ended up purchasing all our points @ 4 DVC's in less than 2 years.

The guides are salespeople and not an internet discussion forum. I dont expect to be mislead, but even here, 1 question can garner 12 different responses and then they are debated further. Guides cant compete or compare with the information that is readily available here.

I agree with Sammie that it is the way the questions are asked. You have to have a full understanding of the system, to ask the right questions. Most people taking the tour do not. The guides have very little time and use very little pressure to sell DVC. I cant think of one business that will direct you to secondary markets and hold your hand thru that process.

DVC does ROFR ALL transactions. Does not mean they are successful just that ROFR applies to all transactions. You have to understand that. And the other DVC's are sold out unless you waitlist or catch them at the right time.

As far as an investment return, what guide would be crazy enough to go there? They could lose their license! And who would be upset if they lost money after a guide told them they could sell later and make money would be you!

 

[cobbler]

Why did I buy? Well I did a bit of research going on, but I know more now than I did then. Do I regret it? Not for a second. Was SSR my first choice? Honeslty, knowing what I know now I can say yes.

I remember riding by in 04 on the way to DTD and telling hubby that when we bought, it would probably be at SSR OR at whatever was the newest at the time. So SSR it was, I wanted the longer years, I wanted the newer resort. Location is trivial in my book. I am at Disney and it isn't beneath me to ride a bus. Did my guide mention that we could book other resorts? Yes but it was just a mention, for example "here is a perk, and Conc Coll, and Adv Coll, and Dis coll" just a run down but didn't elaborate on it.

Do I want to try the others? Sure, and I didn't realize that it COULD be difficult to switch out until coming here. But alas part of me thinks that SOMETIMES its a little bit too dramatic on not getting the other resorts. I will just have to wait and see for myself. I am in no way going to be disappointed in having to stay at SSR all the time.

 

[DVC Sadie]

We bought SSR because I love SSR and really have no desire to stay at the other DVCs in the Disneyworld area. I try to combine my SSR visits with a monorail stay so I can have the best of both worlds types of vacations. I would hope in the future to stay at both Hilton Head and Vera Beach DVCs.

 

[Poohgirl]

I bought into SSR, sight unseen, resale. I have yet to stay there, but not because I don't want to stay there. I have since gone to see it and done the tour, and I think it is beautiful!

I have stayed on points three times with a fourth coming up tomorrow all at resorts other then SSR. All of these trips (with the exception of tomorrows which was BCV at 4 months) were planned on fairly short notice, less then 3 months in advance. So when I called and could get BWV, or WVL on such short notice I grabbed them. The other I had to trade and get POFQ for a stay on 3 weeks notice for Halloween for my kids. Since I know I will have no trouble getting reservations at SSR, I figured I was lucky and should try the others out.

I have had fun trying the different resorts, and my next trip will definitely be SSR! Then OKW, then do them all again!

 

[bpmorley]

dh and i are products of the jersey shore in its heyday and still today...

I'm a south Philly boy. We own at SSR, have stayed at OKW and BCV. I'm surprised that you don't want to stay at BCV at least once. It's got a Cape May feel and it's right by the boardwalk.

PS I really like SSR and OKW myself. Great thing is DW likes them best too.

 

[Dreamfinder2]

OK, just trying to distill the gist of the responses here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (like that would be a problem!)

1) The guides are salespeople, and like anyone else in sales, they've got to move product to make a living ... and there's nothing wrong with that.

2) MOST of us weren't misled ... some perhaps feel they were ... but it was more because the purchaser didn't ask the proper questions than the guide giving incorrect answers.

3) MOST of us did, indeed, buy where we wanted to stay ... and we're not being "disloyal" to our home resort (specifically SSR) if we choose to stay somewhere else.

Is this a fair assesment?

Once more, our guide has been a jewel. I know that I buy cars from the same dealer, because there's one salesperson that "treats me right" - I get a fair deal, he gets an appropriate commission, and we're both happy. Our guide has been unfailingly up-front when I've asked questions (and we fretted over our initial purchase for a LOOOOONG time), and to the extent that you can have a "relationship" with a salesperson, we have a good one.

 

[prez65]

Being in sales myself.....I found that my guide was very honest with me(wow an honest sales person). It was the softest sales aproach I have ever had the pleasure to witness. I did a lot of research prior to buying so I was well informed prior to the tour. I found that I did like the SSR resort.....as much as the others. Each resort has thier own pros and cons and most are a preferance of personal taste or what your plans are for the specific vacation you are planning. I did not feel that we were pushed into SSR...I even inquired about other resorts and was told if I wanted to be put on a waiting list....she would do that. I decided to buy SSR on the spot....(which I think suprised my guide).
As far as being able to book at other resorts using the 7mos booking period my guide informed me that I may or may not be able to get a room so do not plan on buying here if another resort would be prefered.
The only thing that took time was deciding on how many points to buy.....My guide was also very helpful with that....She told me that I should start with the minimum points...and can always add more later...she did not try and push buying more points than we would need or tell us that we should buy more so we can take longer or better vacations. We looked over the point charts and decided to take 170points being that I counted the vacations we would want to take and where we would want to stay and thought that would work fine for me.
Another point I want to make is that I asked about staying at other non dvc resorts in disney...She pointed out that sometimes it does not make sense using my points for those vacations and I might be better off renting my points and using the cash to book other resorts.
So as far as sales tactics go....I felt that my guide stated all the facts correctly...asked if we wanted to wait till we got home to make our final decision...even after I told her we wanted in.
People at my job had asked me if it was a high preasure sales pitch and I told them it was not a sales pitch......It was a tour, answer and question session and make up your mind for yourself.......

 

[CarolA]

I'm always a little amused by some of the stories we hear of interactions with DVC guides. I often wonder what role the prospective buyer thinks the guide plays.

Just so there's no misunderstanding -- they are sales people! And they are hired to sell what Disney is selling, not what some existing owner is selling. They are not counselors...they are sales people.

!

YES!

I do feel like people on here want the guides to be "their friends" etc... It's a professional relationship.

Personally, if you fork over thousands of dollars without doing research I would be worried. Do you buy cars and houses that way??? (And DVC guides are much nicer then your average car salesperson LOL!)

 

[DrTomorrow]

Dreamfinder2: I agree with all three statements - good summarization.

FlyingfreeWDW: Um, DVC Guides ARE selling DVC, not a specific resort. And many, many (Cmndt. Lassard, anyone?) fine DVC owners use their points for non DVC resort options, and that option is also a selling point for DVC.

FfWDW & hwystr: I think that, by law, TS salesfolks (including DVC Guides) are prohibited from referring to TS properties as financial instruments or investments (not sure of the specifics, though).

keishashadow: I'd never buy or sell a house without a Realtor (tm) - I agree that they offer many services. OTOH, I've seen prospective buyers ask the listing Realtor (agent of the seller) "So what price do you think they'd accept?" As for TS salespeople, while I'm aware that they have a difficult job, my trip last week to Las Vegas refreshed my memory of the lengths (and deceptions) they'll go through to get the sale....

Sammie: well said; terminology is often the cause, not solution, of misunderstandings.

Be well, all!

 

[DISNEYFOS]

Not sure if I agree. If someone tells you a certain House is not for sale, are you supposed to be savy enough to question that? Are you supposed to realize there is some secret waiting list to buy that house?

I knew resales were available thru 3rd parties companies..but never knew you could be waitlisted to buy direct from DVC and not pay closing costs.

Sorry..I just don't think that is the way to sell. DVC makes money whether we buy SSR or BCV, the guides are losing customers by not being forthcoming.

 

[KatiebugsMom]

Personally, if you fork over thousands of dollars without doing research I would be worried. Do you buy cars and houses that way??? (And DVC guides are much nicer then your average car salesperson LOL!)

I have to second that statement!!! For DH and my recent purchase of DVC, I had done alot of research and alot of waiting (7 years since my initial tour at BW). I read the pros and cons of DVC purchase on many boards as well as talked to both DVC directly and a 3rd party reseller.

We purhased DVC for DVC not for SSR or any other resort specifically as our home. Also, we decided to purchase directly thru DVC for the $1200.00 credit, coverage of closing costs by DVC, Disney financing, and building of a relationship between DVD and us for the future. Lastly, I felt is was a bonus for my emotional investment (yes this is not a financial one) to obtain 12 more years of rights that is offered with SSR. If the world is still here in one piece in 2042 and everyone else other then SSR has their contracts run out, I will be leaping with joy for the 12 more years of family fun I have.......

 

[rinkwide]

...I do feel like people on here want the guides to be "their friends"...

That's by design, not coincidence.

 

[Jen D]

Well, by the time I talked to my DVC guide in was so overly informed by this board I didn't have a single question for her and she didn't have to give my much info at all! In fact when she asked if I had any questions I think I made up a couple I already knew the answer to just so she could feel useful! Don't get me wrong, my guide is great, I just didn't need her for any fact-finding or any sales pitch. She had me at hello!

I had also been on her radar since BCV went on sale, since that was the first time I expressed interest. F/F finally pushed me over the edge. I neither bought with the intention to stay only at SSR nor with the intention to trade out every time. I bought SSR and am very happy to stay at my home resort but also with the intention to try other resorts as the booking windows and availability affords.

 

[Dreamfinder2]

Perhaps a bit OT here, but it occurs to me that a lot of major purchases are "emotional" ones ... some might buy a car because of the way it makes them feel, for instance. For others, a car is just a Point A to Point B conveyance, and style isn't a big deal.

But DVC, more so than many other timeshare properties, seems to appeal to the heart as well as the head for many, and the guides know it and play towards that tendency. That's just smart business on the guide's part.

While we have used our points for other opportunities (loved Charelston Place!), we are all about Disney, and perhaps that's why I'm genuinely content with any of the WDW properties ... and we happen to love our home resorts, too, so that's just more icing on the cake.

The biggest counsel I've offered prospective DVCers is to do your homework, and be as familiar with the bewildering point system and other esoterica as possible. At some point, though, you gotta fish or cut bait, and for us it was a choice of the heart (after we'd crunched numbers, of course.)

You may have the thread back.