BAIT and SWITCH

[behindthegossip]

Well it's depressing that we plan trips not to see new things but to see things being taken away without replacement. The maximizing of profit at WDW gets old after awhile.

Totally agree.

 

[cobright]

If not, her beef would be with the airline, not Disney. Airfare used to be totally refundable, and change fees were low to non-existent. Disney didn't change those rules, the airlines did.

Airfare also used to be prohibitively expensive. Really, until the 90s a ticket from Detroit to Orlando was a pipe dream. Now it's $140 round trip. I could get free cancellations and changes if I went back to $350 tickets.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I think pulling MSEP with short notice was bad. It was on the calendar, people made plans, including a dining package. If they were going to end it, they should not have released it on the calendar. It's not like they need to close it for repair.

Part of this all goes back to releasing calendars and ADR's 6 months in advance. If they want more flexibility in scheduling, they should pull that back to 90 or 120 days. I think 180 days is ridiculous. They want to pressure people into booking a room and making a deposit far in advance to get the ADR advantage.

in the case of showing on the calendar and then cancelling- well, it's annoying, but here in the real world, a concert or jam night can be put on the calendar months in advance and then be cancelled or delayed because someone is ill or it just doesn't work out.

And I guess I just don't understand how people feel pressure from the 180 day availibility thing. Maybe I'm just wired wrong, but if I wait til, I don't know, 90 days out, and I can't eat at BOG after all, I'll just book something new or eat QS. I won't collapse into paroxysms of grief over something like that. At most, I'll feel a bit wistful as I walk past. If I was working as a phone CM and someone told me that if they didn't get that ADR Rez, their whole trip would be ruined...well, I'd certainly try to find a spot for them but the whole time I'd be trying not to laugh

 

[mom2rtk]

Their park hours have always been released pretty late. I meant their ADR system works fine at 60 days. Of course I don't choose my parks based on hours so the last minute changes never really bothered me. At Disneyland it is even easier since there is nothing to prebook except ADRs.

No. We've been going to Disneyland for several years now and this is different from previous years. I know they've always released hours pretty late in the game, especially compared with Walt Disney World. But this is even later than normal.

People wanting in park ADRs the first week of October might have finally been able to book them today. That is a lot less than 60 days out.

 

[mom2rtk]

Airfare also used to be prohibitively expensive. Really, until the 90s a ticket from Detroit to Orlando was a pipe dream. Now it's $140 round trip. I could get free cancellations and changes if I went back to $350 tickets.

You can't generalize with airfare. For the week we are looking at our flight back home is coming in at close to $200 one way. It's the same whether we go to DLR or WDW.

 

[scrapquitler]

I really don't think that the delays with ROL are because Disney is trying to shortchange their guests. You are making it sound like they are doing this on purpose to suckerpunch you, and I'm sure this is not the case at all.

 

[mom2rtk]

I really don't think that the delays with ROL are because Disney is trying to shortchange their guests. You are making it sound like they are doing this on purpose to suckerpunch you, and I'm sure this is not the case at all.

Wasn't there a story saying the A team of imagineers weren't working on the ROL project? I wonder why that was.

 

[Best_Vacation_EVER!]

Agreed-we actually were there the first week of May and experienced the same disappointment. It seems to have become the norm for Disney now unfortunately.

Us too... after our May 2016 trip --- when they were still saying that the AK night/ROL was to come to fruition but at the last minute yanked it.... my DS and DH have said basically they won't go back to WDW until new things are actually open -- rather than just rumours (and by that time I think my DS will rather go other places than WDW.)

I'm going in December solo as neither my DH or DS are wanting to go. I work IT and one of the golden rules is to over deliver and under promise.... the other way just promises disappointment for everyone.

I will say that I am really frustrated that at less than 4 months out I still have zero idea of what the final park hours will be, no idea if there will be Illuminations and SW dessert parties and if they are available when can I book them???? There are numerous things which, depending on which source you believe, may or may not be open --- but really Disney should have provided the info already. I have my ADR's (so I've micro-managed my vacation at 180 days as they are required to get certain ADRs) but I still have holes... will Club Villain be there? will there be Illuminations or HS dessert parties? Hopefully they'll commit by the Fastpass + booking date or that will just add to the confusion.

If WDW wants to get rid of the 180 day window then just do it... or shorten it or whatever.... Just make a decision and go with it. I'm guessing they still want the assured bookings that the 180 + 10 days offer even though they aren't willing to commit to the same level themselves.

 

[cobright]

You can't generalize with airfare. For the week we are looking at our flight back home is coming in at close to $200 one way. It's the same whether we go to DLR or WDW.

In 1980 the Average round trip ticket cost 32 cents per mile (in today's dollars) In 2015 the average round trip fare was only 15 cents per mile. So the average ticket to Orlando from Detroit would have cost 700 dollars in 1979 (all prices are adjusted for inflation).

Airfares have come up a little from their all time low in 2005 but it's still a shadow of the ticket costs as recently as 1994, where the average price for my ticket was around $500.

 

[mom2rtk]

In 1980 the Average round trip ticket cost 32 cents per mile (in today's dollars) In 2015 the average round trip fare was only 15 cents per mile. So the average ticket to Orlando from Detroit would have cost 700 dollars in 1979 (all prices are adjusted for inflation).

Airfares have come up a little from their all time low in 2005 but it's still a shadow of the ticket costs as recently as 1994, where the average price for my ticket was around $500.

I still think telling the OP to suck it up and cancel their trip (including eating potential losses on airfare) is not the acceptable answer here.

 

[HatboxHaint]

This!!! We can't control the decisions that Disney makes, only the way we choose to react to them. Several years ago we took a trip to Disney in May. We were really looking forward to it because we'd always been there in late June and we knew that mid-May would bring slightly better weather (cooler, less rain) and slightly lower crowds (CL7's instead of 9's). We were also looking forward to doing all of the fireworks/nightime shows because our kids were finally old enough to stay out late every night. We pre-purchased Photopass because it was probably going to be the last trip with all 5 kids and we wanted to make sure we took plenty of pictures. It was going to be a fabulous trip full of so many new things!!! Then the swine flu decided to spread like wildfire through the Orlando area. People were cancelling their trips. I packed a ton of vitamins, hand sanitizer, and Clorox wipes. I was ready for battle!! And then a tropical depression stalled over central FL. We had torrential rain for hours and hours every single day we were there. Everyone forgot about the swine flu because all you could think about was the never-ending rain. We only got to one fireworks show all week because none of us wanted to stand out in the rain and look up into the rain drops to watch fireworks. Photopass photographers were non-existent -- we don't have a single picture of the 7 of us together on that trip. Our shoes and socks or leather sandals were soaked through before we even got to the parks each morning. But after the first 24 hours of what we now fondly refer to as "monsoon week", we made a decision. And that decision was to have a good time despite the weather. We had no control over it, so why stress out about it? (Similar to not having any control over Disney's decisions). We went to the gift shop and bought Disney ponchos for the 7 of us (best money we spent all week) and soldiered on. And we had an awesome trip. We did things that we had never taken the time to do before. We moved at a much slower pace because there was no need to rush from one thing to the next as lines were short and sometimes non-existent. It's one of our favorite trips and we talk about it often. It could have easily been a terrible trip, but we chose not to let that happen.

pretty sure Disney does not advertise sunshine as a coming attraction to bait people into planning trips. Most people know it rains in Florida.

 

[HatboxHaint]

I really don't think that the delays with ROL are because Disney is trying to shortchange their guests. You are making it sound like they are doing this on purpose to suckerpunch you, and I'm sure this is not the case at all.

BUT they are cutting AK night hours and everything that goes with it. They could keep the JB show running.

 

[HatboxHaint]

in the case of showing on the calendar and then cancelling- well, it's annoying, but here in the real world, a concert or jam night can be put on the calendar months in advance and then be cancelled or delayed because someone is ill or it just doesn't work out.

And I guess I just don't understand how people feel pressure from the 180 day availibility thing. Maybe I'm just wired wrong, but if I wait til, I don't know, 90 days out, and I can't eat at BOG after all, I'll just book something new or eat QS. I won't collapse into paroxysms of grief over something like that. At most, I'll feel a bit wistful as I walk past. If I was working as a phone CM and someone told me that if they didn't get that ADR Rez, their whole trip would be ruined...well, I'd certainly try to find a spot for them but the whole time I'd be trying not to laugh

Many enjoy those restaraunts and do care to get them.

 

[bluezy]

pretty sure Disney does not advertise sunshine as a coming attraction to bait people into planning trips. Most people know it rains in Florida.

Never mind. You missed the point.

 

[loves to dive]

BUT they are cutting AK night hours and everything that goes with it. They could keep the JB show running.

JB was one of those things that they were darned if the do and darned if they don't. Most everyone who saw it said it wasn't good and didn't enjoy it. From what I understand part of the reason they stopped it was so they could rehearse and run through ROL. Pretty sure the powers that be when they announced ROL was starting on x date weren't sitting there gleefully rubbing their hands together and laughing manically about how they were luring everyone to the parks and then were going to take it away from them. It wasn't ready, bad planning, it happens. AK is open until 9 in Sept, which in my book is night and given how they have been slow in announcing hours, I'm guessing will be open late in Oct. as well. Heck fire, ROL might just be running then, who knows. As the year approaches fall and winter, all the parks cut their hours, why would AK stay open later than others?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

In 1980 the Average round trip ticket cost 32 cents per mile (in today's dollars) In 2015 the average round trip fare was only 15 cents per mile. So the average ticket to Orlando from Detroit would have cost 700 dollars in 1979 (all prices are adjusted for inflation).

Airfares have come up a little from their all time low in 2005 but it's still a shadow of the ticket costs as recently as 1994, where the average price for my ticket was around $500.

Airfare is less expensive today as long as you book wisely and your plans do not change, but the lower prices are the result of deregulation which led to competition. Competition drove poorly managed airlines out of business and forced down prices. The consumers won and airlines became so hyper-competitive that once healthy airlines found themselves losing money, so the airlines started looking for ways to sneak in fees that the consumers would never have agreed to on the open market. They managed to do this through collusion, and paid the government enough to ensure that they were not sued for that collusion. If only United charged a flight change fee, who would fly United? But if everyone charges a change fee, you are forced to pay.

So, yes, the fares are less expensive, but the fees can and do make many flights as expensive if not more expensive than ever.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

BUT they are cutting AK night hours and everything that goes with it. They could keep the JB show running.

This is the first year, from what I know and I could be wrong, that Disney is extending hours of AK. When I went in September of 2011 AK closed at 5pm *gasp*

 

[HatboxHaint]

Yes it is a

This is the first year, from what I know and I could be wrong, that Disney is extending hours of AK. When I went in September of 2011 AK closed at 5pm *gasp*

Yes it is and I was pumped. It closed at 5pm on my visits in 10, 12, and 14.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes it is a

Yes it is and I was pumped. It closed at 5pm on my visits in 10, 12, and 14.

Yeah I mean I'm excited for Sep 2017 hoping they stay open later like this year but quite honestly anything more than 5pm is great. I guess that's why I don't see them "cutting" hrs because they could have easily said yup going back to 5pm folks (though I'm pretty sure a mutiny would have occurred).

They are shortening them from their summer timeframe (where operating hours are generally much longer than other parts of the year anyways aside from around holidays) but surely you were lured enough by WDW in 2010,2012 and 2014 despite operating hours that by this year's standards were very short. I mean that a main reason why people called AK a half-day park simply because of the operating hours.

 

[cobright]

Just to pull a few points out of this:

1. Airfare is less expensive today as long as you book wisely and your plans do not change
2. The consumers won and airlines became so hyper-competitive that once healthy airlines found themselves losing money,
3. so the airlines started looking for ways to sneak in fees that the consumers would never have agreed to on the open market.
4. They managed to do this through collusion, and paid the government enough to ensure that they were not sued for that collusion. If only United charged a flight change fee, who would fly United? But if everyone charges a change fee, you are forced to pay.
5. So, yes, the fares are less expensive, but the fees can and do make many flights as expensive if not more expensive than ever.

Running down the list:

1. All else being equal, airfare is far less expensive today than it was 30 years ago. Requiring the ability to make last minute changes will eat in to that savings.
2. More or less the case, accepting that it was easier to be a healthy airline when the government required all of your competition to charge the same exorbitant rates you did.
3. They added fees that their current customers who were spending the equivalent of $700 for a coach ticket would never have agreed to. But for The rest of us, paying fees for or doing without certain extras so that we can get the same 2200 mile trip for $200 or so seems like a fair trade.
4. That same all inclusive ticket is still available and even that one is a whole lot cheaper than it used to be.
5. Not even close. I can buy three tickets to Disney World today for what a single ticket went for in 1980. I'll link a chart that shows the drop and even includes all the new fees. In the mid 60s, a survey showed that fewer than 20% of Americans had ever even been on an airplane ride. In 2000, the same survey showed half of Americans fly at least once per year.

I just now ran a request for a R/T ticket from Detroit to Orlando in March. To get 2 checked bags and the ability to cancel for a refund without penalty or change my flight even on the same day, the ticket is $450. The average fare for that same flight in 1980 was a little over $750. If I'm certain of my travel plans, I can give up the same day changes and limit myself to getting a refund as a travel voucher and pay $250 for the same flight.

You can still get that 1980 all inclusive, no worries ticket and it's a lot cheaper than it was in 1980.