Bail out doesn't pass!

What kind of people would vote against a bill they thought would save the American economy because their feelings were hurt? Please!!

It is absolute BS! A smoke screen!
Which is substantially different then the mindset of "I'm not voting for it unless he votes for it too!" mentality in what way???

Sorry, but both sides own this.

1. Since when does everyone get so riled up when someone doesn't support Bush? I though supporting Bush was a bad thing?
Yeah, Democrats criticizing Republicans for treating Bush like Democrats do.... Wow.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";27876555]It is also the responsibility of the homeowner to not purchase a home they know they will never be able to afford...so it is not just the banks fault.

To many people in this country want the GOV to bail them out of everything....well fiscal responsibility starts at home.

I personally am mad at both sides....banks and homeowners. I pay my mortgage on time. I did not buy more of a house that we could afford...we bought less actually because life gets in the way so why burden ourselves more than we have to if something were to happen.

Many buyers got greedy and bought homes they could not afford to resell and make a big profit...but as more and more did that and the housing market became saturated so many houses came on the market to sell at theses ridiculous prices that people could not sell...than the bubble burst and those that could not get out were stuck in foreclosure.

Saw it coming and wanted no part of it.[/QUOTE]

Well I am glad that you were smarter than some people and did not buy a house you couldn't afford. But that really doesn't help the problem. I believe there was a long thread about the causes of all the foreclosures. I also agree that people were stupid, but if we want to punish them by taking their houses than we all lose. The best thing is to help them pay their mortgages, the government can do this. Having more foreclosures will not help.
 
I'm glad they voted against it.

This is going to cost the taxpayers over a trillion dollars (if you want a reference point the entire cost of World War Two adjusted to todays dollars is a trillion dollars).

I just don't buy the crisis mentality coming from the same people who cried "Wolf" over weapons of mass destruction. Why was it that last month "the economy is fundamentally sound" and last week it was "if we don't pass this by Thursday we will have a crash".

I don't trust these people, especially when a little speech by Nancy Pelosi is enough to change their minds. That sells it right there - this is BS.
 
Well I am glad that you were smarter than some people and did not buy a house you couldn't afford. But that really doesn't help the problem. I believe there was a long thread about the causes of all the foreclosures. I also agree that people were stupid, but if we want to punish them by taking their houses than we all lose. The best thing is to help them pay their mortgages, the government can do this. Having more foreclosures will not help.

It is not for the government to fix people's idiocy.
What will happen is that the foreclosures will probably move housing prices to where they should be and at the inflated prices where they have been.
 

Well I am glad that you were smarter than some people and did not buy a house you couldn't afford. But that really doesn't help the problem. I believe there was a long thread about the causes of all the foreclosures. I also agree that people were stupid, but if we want to punish them by taking their houses than we all lose. The best thing is to help them pay their mortgages, the government can do this. Having more foreclosures will not help.

Why should taxpayers have to help people pay their mortgages, who can't pay their mortgages? How will that help? If they can't pay their mortgage, then they can't. End of story. Prolonging it won't change the fact that they can't pay their mortgage. TBS, I'm in favor of programs to refinance from ARMS and variable rate mortgages to fixed mortgages through FHA. But if the refinance won't help, or if they are buried in the house because they financed 100% and the value went down, then they can't be helped.
 
oh for goodness sakes. The Dems were charged with having to clean up this Bush\Republican mess. They voted 60-40 in favor of it. Some holding their noses.

The Republicans voted against it 67 - 33. Some blaming the fact that Speaker Pelosi wasn't nice to them.......... They did not put the country first..........
Bush/republican mess? The democrat's hands are clean?

The majority of americans did not want the bailout. I guess it's a bad thing....representatives actually listened.

Are you saying Pelosi couldn't convince a dozen of those 90+ dem nays to vote her way?
 
It is not for the government to fix people's idiocy.
What will happen is that the foreclosures will probably move housing prices to where they should be and at the inflated prices where they have been.

But how are people going to get loans to afford to buy these homes with the lending markets crippled? I'm certainly not in favor of the ARMs and interest-only loans that got us into this (they seemed funny to me even when they started pushing them, and I'm only 24 so it's not like I had a lot of experience looking at mortgages) but even 30-yr fixed rate mortgages w/ 10-20% down are going to be hard to get for people that can afford them. Which means that the forclosures just sit on the market.
 
Are you say Pelosi couldn't convince a dozen of those 90+ dem nays to vote her way?
Some one at National Review summed up Nan's excuse pretty well:
Pelosi's Excuses Are Garbage

Pelosi, moments ago: "The Democrats more than lived up to their side of the bargain."

Horsepuckey. Pelosi has 235 members. She needed 218. She could spare 17 members and still pass the bill.

The GOP spotted her 65 members, for a bill that made most Republicans' skin crawl in both broad outline and in terms of detail.

That meant Pelosi could afford to lose 82 Democrats.

She lost 95.

Bush and Paulson were never going to pass this bill with House Republican votes. It had to be palatable to the Democrats, and Pelosi and Frank said that it was.

Think about it - the majority party is insisting that the minority party is responsible for the bill not passing with a majority. Do you see the incongruency there? Why is anyone taking that argument seriously?
 
Bush/republican mess? The democrat's hands are clean?

The majority of americans did not want the bailout. I guess it's a bad thing....representatives actually listened.

Are you say Pelosi couldn't convince a dozen of those 90+ dem nays to vote her way?

The Democratic leadership promised half of their members. The Republican leadership promised the same.

The Democrats delivered. The Republicans didn't.

Its not just about people not paying their astronomically high adjustable rate mortgages........

There may be many who could lose their jobs (due to companies collapsing, going under - or as a richochet reaction to Wall Street going under) - I will keep them in my thoughts and prayers.

I only hope my job is not a casualty as well. Our stock lost 5% today - we have already had two rounds of layoffs this year......

Yeah the bail out stunk - but not bailing out may be infinitely worse......
 
Some one at National Review summed up Nan's excuse pretty well:

Think about it - the majority party is insisting that the minority party is responsible for the bill not passing with a majority. Do you see the incongruency there? Why is anyone taking that argument seriously?

No I do not see it. Why should the Democrats take the hit for the FAILED policies of Republican Conservatism (what's regulation?)
 
tanuki:

How much is it going to cost without the bailout? A handful of large banks fail, or if AIG fails, the cost easily exceeds one trillon
 
You want to save the banks but not the homeowners? :confused3 If the banks hadn't have made the bad loans to the homeowners we would not be in this mess. Sure some people bought more house than they could afford but they couldn't have done that if the banks had not lent them the money. It was the responsiblity of the banks to make good loans. Now some seem to think we should just throw the homeowners to the wolves. It is not enough to just save the banks, we have to stop the foreclosures. The economy will not improve if the housing maket does not improve. I would rather see my tax money keeping people in their homes than keeping bankers on their yachts.

The following link may explain why the banks made so many bad loans. This explains the Community Reinvestment Act which may have played a part with the current problem. Some say it didn't have anything to do with our current situation, but I don't think it helped at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act


The following is from the The New York Times. Aren't you glad that Barney Frank is handling the current problem?

Five years ago the Bush Administration attempted to head off a financial crisis that loomed ahead for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. As reported by the New York Times on September 11, 2003:

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt - is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

However, it was Congressional Democrats who fought tooth and nail to kill this new oversight.

Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

“These two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. “The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.” I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,” Mr. Watt said.
 
The Democratic leadership promised half of their members. The Republican leadership promised the same.

The Democrats delivered. The Republicans didn't.

Its not just about people not paying their astronomically high adjustable rate mortgages........

There may be many who could lose their jobs (due to companies collapsing, going under - or as a richochet reaction to Wall Street going under) - I will keep them in my thoughts and prayers.

I only hope my job is not a casualty as well. Our stock lost 5% today - we have already had two rounds of layoffs this year......

Yeah the bail out stunk - but not bailing out may be infinitely worse......
If Pelosi was a true leader and this bill was that important.....she should have gotten her dem votes. She's not a leader. It's not a good bill. She played politics. When this bailout doesn't work.....Pelosi wanted cover.
 
and, as the dow has had the largest one day drop in history, I think the world markets will keep up the direction downward when they open tonight and in the morning.

The one good thing, if Wall Street continues to take a beating (there will probably be some buyers tomorrow) I think both Dems and Repub's will run to the floor to vote on a package......As soon as middle america wakes up and realizes that their retirement account is empty, college fund is empty, etc, and, they figure out that this problem directly effects them.

And, while I detest McCain, and am for Obama, I think both showed a total failure of leadership in this whole debacle. Neither took the lead.
 
No I do not see it. Why should the Democrats take the hit for the FAILED policies of Republican Conservatism (what's regulation?)

UUUHHH, can we agree that this was caused by the sub-prime market? And on Congress for requiring that these companies make subprime loans as part of the Community Reinvestment Act? Congress passed this.

I also believe a share of blame goes to Fannie for overstating their financial condition, since they guaranteed a large % of the loans.

I could point out all the praise and denying of trouble in the last few years, by Dodd, Frank and Waters, but the Congress created the sewer and the banks swam in it...
 
Relax people. This is good news. The damage done by the Bush/Obama bill would have been far worse than what we are experiencing now. There is no need to socialize our financial markets any further.
What did Obama have to do with this bill? He never did any work on it? Why is his name on it?

It was not partisan. It was BI-PARTISAN. 40% of DEMS and 66% of Repubs voted against it.
Yep!
Exactly, this isn't about feelings being hurt (I didn't see the Pelosi speech, but could it really be that bad). It's about not doing further damage to an already damaged system. The fact of the Pelosi speech is only an opportunity for a little political grandstanding. The Bush/Obama bill would have been defeated with or without the speech.
Yep!!

If Pelosi was a true leader and this bill was that important.....she should have gotten her dem votes. She's not a leader. It's not a good bill. She played politics. When this bailout doesn't work.....Pelosi wanted cover.

Yep!
 
I don't like having to bailout Wall Street, but I think it has to be done. I am ticked that the Republicans are not stepping up to the plate. They are more worried about getting reelected than the state of the economy.

Oh for Pete's sake!! STOP!! with the partisian nonsense already!! FORTY PERCENT of the House Dems voted NAY as well.

I'm ticked at them ALL.

But please, continue to bash Republicans if you it makes you feel better.

:rolleyes:
 


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