Bag Search, does it help?

[hugsquared]

This is where you completely lose me. Profiling is ineffective with the problem we're dealing with here. We have the Al-Qaeda group, we know they're in 40 countries, from Malaysia to the Philippines to Latin America, so Arab looking people won't satisfy.
If we continue to sort of intimidate and interrogate an entire community, and I should point out that most Arab Americans are Christians, not Al-Queda linked Muslims, we will not get the kind of cooperation we need from the Arab American community.
One of America's core beliefs is based on the belief that one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Profiling turns that concept on it's head and presumes guilt until innocence is discovered. I know that the following may be profiling taken to the extreme, but what if every time a 7-11, or bank is held up at gun point in Louisiana, the state police fan out across the state, knock on the door of every gun owner, and search your house until they decide that you didn't commit the crime? Not a very good way to live, and small scale profiling starts a precident for this type of "Police State" mentality. Terrorists do what they do to make America change her ways, and if we throw out the concept of reasonable search because of fear, we may as well rewrite the Constitution and check with every terrorist group to get their opinions on what they feel is appropriate.

While I see your side, I also think stopping 80 yo women on their way to gamble in Vegas is a waste of time. We have narrowed down what the international crimals (thus far) look like. But I also see the side of people who say "what about the Timothy McVeigh's of our own country". Like I originally said, the bag searches provide only the smallest "show" of doing something, there are many other protective measures going on we never see. But again, lets suppose a couple of meaning no harm teenagers attempted to bring in toy guns (that look too much like the real things these days) or firecrackers to give the poor old souls around them a good scare and in turn they get a good laugh. Then the police are called in and can't tell the gun is a toy or the explosion came from left over 4th of July firecrackers and they try and take down a kid, or the crowd panics and tramples a 4yo to death trying to get away from the "bomb". These are the instances where I think checking bags may prevent or deter someone from getting stuff in. No one in the world has developed a fool proof solution to the vast problems that lay ahead, or even the tragic circumstances of what lay behind us. But its a start, and at least its something. And if all they are doing is covering their own butts, then I still don't mind. I will never let fear and panic stop me from living. But the truth remains, as far as real terrorist go, about 6 months after 9/11 we flew from TN to Myrtle Beach on a small jet. A man of Middle Eastern descent walked into the boarding area and you could feel the tension rise. He sat directly next to me. I was terrified. Maybe it wasn't fair, but it was real. The fact is, he looked like the enemy and my central nervous system reacted. When the 45yo couple with 2 teenaged boys came on and sat down, no one blinked an eye...we were not conditioned to be in fear for our lives from that picture. I just think its a natural reaction and again, I'm sorry to make people shake their heads in shame at me, but profiling has its merits. Thats just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions...they're just like poots...your own smells okay but everybody elses stinks.
I will now step down from the soap box and return you all to your regularly scheduled programs.

 

[Pinnie]

I just got back from Disneyland and I have to say their "bag searches" are a tad better than the ones at WDW. At least the 17 yr old Kid LOOKED and moved things around in my purse.

While we were in Vegas last week, we decided to go up to the top of the STATOSPHERE and there was not only a BAG check but we had to go through a metal detector. At the Bellagio hotel, cars are stopped and checked underneath and in the truck before you are allowed to procede to the parking garage. Hoover Dam had the same thing.

I think the bag checks at the parks is nothing more than a stall tactic. I think there must be closed circuit TVs and we are all being watched as we enter.

pinnie

 

[kizmac]

All in all, I am glad they do it. Although, it doesn't really make me feel safer. Wishful thinking is that maybe it does deter some few crazy people from sneaking something in like a gun or small knife. Honestly though, a true terrorist isn't gonna be stopped that easily. I'm sure a professional could make a bomb out of something as small as a camera and I don't think they could ever inspect every camera or piece of video equipment coming through the gates to make sure it was really a camera and not altered. I agree that metal detectors would be a good idea. I am surprised they don't have them. Even my DD has them at her highschool.
Hopefully the day doesn't come when they start prohibiting camera & video cams...could you just imagine!?

 

[TDC Nala]

Metal detectors would take too long for park crowds. Everyone would set it off with their belt buckles, and the change in their pockets (that Mickey will soon get from them anyway, but they've got to get it INTO the parks). At airports, my brother has to explain the metal plate in his leg (he had a serious break some years ago). How long does all that take? The simple bag check takes long enough.

Body searches would be too intrusive. They don't even body search everyone at the airport.

What they're doing is all they can do. Cripes, New York is randomly checking the bags of subway passengers fer goodness sake. They're thinking of doing that here in DC. Can't imagine that being terribly effective, either. I LOVE the idea of leaving an hour earlier for work just in case.

 

[kizmac]

You're right, I didn't consider how long it would take to get through metal detectors. That would be a disaster.

 

[Chickkypoo]

The only thing that bothered me about the purse searches was they seem to be inconsistant. I carry a purse that's more like a really small wallet with a string. My first day at the Magic Kingdom I figure I'd better stand in the purse line just in case. When I got up there the guy just laughed at me and told me that I shouldn't have even bothered standing in line.

The next day at Animal Kingdom, I go the main gate for people with no purses/bags, etc. and the guy near the gate asks to see my purse and tells me next time to stand in the bag line.

After this I totally didn't know what to do, do I have my wallet checked or not. I decided to err on the side of caution, and have it checked everyday after that, continuing to get weird looks from security, as there's obviously no room to hide anything in it. I just figure if I have to have my wallet checked, why do the men get to go thru without having their wallets searched? Only fair I figure!

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

No - Because as someone mentioned they do not search your person. Anybody who really wanted to do ANYTHING could. Weapons, booze, etc if they REALLY wanted to.
HOWEVER, they did ruin my little girls birthday because they made us open her wrapped gifts before entering the park for her Cinderella breakfast for her birthday. We had to do it amongst a million people waiting in line. Hope everyone felt safer.
-Wendy

they made you open the gifts??? wow, i would have had them call a manager or something and complained about it. i can't believe they did that, i would have been so pissed off.

 

[Danthesand]

We - ahem - seem to have a lot of armchair security experts here.

Ergo, people assume the security provisions at the WDW gates consist solely of these (granted) simplistic "bag checks." Given we are discussing a firm that already uses cutting edge biometric hand recognition to prevent visitors from sharing passes, how do people know if Disney is or isn't also already using:

- Bomb-sniffing technology (there are polymer devices already in use that can pick up on tiny trace amounts of explosive vapors from over 20 feet away).

- full body backscatter X-ray (which has already been tested at the Orlando airport). It shows a lot more than just what type of underwear you have on....

Bottom line: people should realize that there's often more to a story than just what is literally in front of them!

 

[reeeoga]

We - ahem - seem to have a lot of armchair security experts here.

QUOTE]

I prefer a nice cummfie couch or bed

back on subject: how about using theming for security. I think this would work best at Studios. example: use the "Security scene" from somthing like the Total Recall (or whatever one they have the rights to) for the entry to the park. Security could wear the uniforms from the movie. People could randomly be pulled from the entry line and be given FP to certain rides. This would reduce the stress of the wait. People would not know why some are pulled, maybe that get a backstage pass , may they had a knife.

EPCOT could use a "Future that never was" theme.
AK could have a frontier train type.
MK could have the 60's worlds fair stylling.

This could provide WDW with the oppertunity to redue their entries with better covers and AC . They could then use the expense as a tax write off.

 

[disgram]

If it stops one nut...I'll stand in line....Look at what happened in London the past two weeks!! All were thought to have had backpacks...do you want to be behind someone who hasn't at least had someone poke around in his backpack?

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

While I see your side, I also think stopping 80 yo women on their way to gamble in Vegas is a waste of time. We have narrowed down what the international crimals (thus far) look like. But I also see the side of people who say "what about the Timothy McVeigh's of our own country". Like I originally said, the bag searches provide only the smallest "show" of doing something, there are many other protective measures going on we never see. But again, lets suppose a couple of meaning no harm teenagers attempted to bring in toy guns (that look too much like the real things these days) or firecrackers to give the poor old souls around them a good scare and in turn they get a good laugh. Then the police are called in and can't tell the gun is a toy or the explosion came from left over 4th of July firecrackers and they try and take down a kid, or the crowd panics and tramples a 4yo to death trying to get away from the "bomb". These are the instances where I think checking bags may prevent or deter someone from getting stuff in. No one in the world has developed a fool proof solution to the vast problems that lay ahead, or even the tragic circumstances of what lay behind us. But its a start, and at least its something. And if all they are doing is covering their own butts, then I still don't mind. I will never let fear and panic stop me from living. But the truth remains, as far as real terrorist go, about 6 months after 9/11 we flew from TN to Myrtle Beach on a small jet. A man of Middle Eastern descent walked into the boarding area and you could feel the tension rise. He sat directly next to me. I was terrified. Maybe it wasn't fair, but it was real. The fact is, he looked like the enemy and my central nervous system reacted. When the 45yo couple with 2 teenaged boys came on and sat down, no one blinked an eye...we were not conditioned to be in fear for our lives from that picture. I just think its a natural reaction and again, I'm sorry to make people shake their heads in shame at me, but profiling has its merits. Thats just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions...they're just like poots...your own smells okay but everybody elses stinks.
I will now step down from the soap box and return you all to your regularly scheduled programs.

I think you may have misunderstood my post, Hugsquared. I don't mind bag checks, we're going through them right now on all NYC subways and buses because of the London bombings. In a city with 8 million residents, it's moving surprisingly well. What I do not agree with is racial profiling. If you're really interested, you might want to take another look at my last post.

 

[heart]

I'm surprised you didn't change your name to "wendylovesdisneybutisquiteannoyed."

THAT would have put me over the edge. I've already had to stand by at airports while my three year old is patted down.

I hope there IS more security going on than is obvious, because my armchair observation is that the bag seach is a joke as to keeping us safer (except maybe from obnoxious drunks, if they ARE confiscating alcohol).

 

[Mickeyistheman]

I think that we should all be thankful that they have these searches instead of nothing at all because if they didn't have ANYTHING AT ALL each one of you would be so upset that nothing was being done.

So I say suck it up and deal with it. This is life after 9/11 and it will NEVER EVER go back to being that way again. We just have to accept it.

I know seeing your 3 year old being padded down is not right but we unfortunatly do not have a choice in this matter anymore.

On lighter note with this subject, I say Grin and bear it and just keep thinking that once you get in you can enjoy the Magic that Disney has to offer.

 

[Dancemom03]

We've been a dozen times since 9/11 and I have not seen a single thing confiscated by Disney security. Are they really taking scissors and penknives from guests? If they're using the TSA list I hope they start taking lighters soon. I'd like to hear from someone who had something confiscated or was turned away by security.

You called?
DH used to carry his kershaw knife nearly everywhere. Not on purpose, it was just on his belt, a gift from a friend who's a snap-on tools man. What finally broke him of the habit were several trips during which he forgot to take it off and leave it in the room.

I can still remember the incredulous look on his face that first time when the Epcot WS gate security guys politely told him they'd need to "keep that safe" until he exited the park later that day. Initially he was concerned about getting it back (it wasn't a cheap knife at all) but they did in fact lock it safely somewhere as it took them quite a while later that day to go get it and return it at the gate.

Habits are hard to break and he did have it "kept safe" for him a couple times at other parks. I can remember MGM for certain but not sure beyond epcot and MGM. He no longer wears it anywhere thankfully so it's now a non-issue.
Now he doesn't carry anything with him to the parks anymore, nor do the kids, so I am the only one detained as the stroller and my bag are searched before entrance.

As far as metal detectors go - I saw the first of them at Kings Dominion in VA before 9/11. I was shocked and thought "yup, there goes the neighborhood..."
Rather than making me feel safer they brought home the reality even then that we can't take things for granted.
Being near Wash DC the detectors were meant to deter fatal arguements between park guests by removing access to their weapons.
After thinking about it, I'm kind of happy not to have to worry about getting wounded as a by-stander there in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Interesting to note though is the fact that for a dance competition one weekend we got stopped for DD's chain belt and headpiece while another dancer's dad - an off duty state trooper - got thru with a clip for his pistol in his pocket without being stopped at all. It was only later that day when he realized he'd forgotten the ammo clip was in his pocket.

The detectors are at every gate I believe and I think the lines move just as quickly as MK lines do. Some days they're actually quicker as they don't do biometrics so a simple pass through does it unless you're carrying a bag which gets searched.

 

[mrp4352]

Metal detectors would take too long for park crowds. Everyone would set it off with their belt buckles, and the change in their pockets (that Mickey will soon get from them anyway, but they've got to get it INTO the parks).

Six Flags over Texas uses metal detectors at their park entrance and it's actually faster than the Disney method - at least it seems so to me.

I don't mind the security - as an airline Employee, I appreciate the need for extra measures in today's world. However, I agree with several earlier posters - do it right or don't do it at all. About half the time I get a quick glance through my bag, the other half I'm opening all the pockets in my wallet that happened to be in my purse. I am more than willing to open all those pockets - and usually I have all my zippers undone and things out to make it easier on the guards.

 

[hugsquared]

I think you may have misunderstood my post, Hugsquared. I don't mind bag checks, we're going through them right now on all NYC subways and buses because of the London bombings. In a city with 8 million residents, it's moving surprisingly well. What I do not agree with is racial profiling. If you're really interested, you might want to take another look at my last post.

This is just an area where lots of us must agree to disagree. I read your post correctly, and in my reply (at the beginning and the end) I addressed the profiling issue. Thats what makes this country a beautiful place, no one is forced to have the same ideas or opinions as others. That said, I too am glad to see this hasn't turned into a free for all shouting match with everyone having to be right.
Still can't wait to get to the Mouse , only 53 days away.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

That said, I too am glad to see this hasn't turned into a free for all shouting match with everyone having to be right.

Not my style, hugs!

Have a great trip!!

 

[jjarman]

I have been thinking on this for a while now. I remember reading some posts somewhere about security cameras throughout the parks and then I read how New York has used Disney security for their training. I just wonder if the bag search is just an excuse for some other more covert “search” that we would not suspect. There could be hidden cameras used specifically to pick up on people’s behavior as they have to wait in line for their bags to be searched. Just a thought.

 

[hugsquared]

I have been thinking on this for a while now. I remember reading some posts somewhere about security cameras throughout the parks and then I read how New York has used Disney security for their training. I just wonder if the bag search is just an excuse for some other more covert “search” that we would not suspect. There could be hidden cameras used specifically to pick up on people’s behavior as they have to wait in line for their bags to be searched. Just a thought.

My thoughts exactly. I bet we'd all be astonished to know exactly what security measures are in place.

 

[cooldisneymom]

We - ahem - seem to have a lot of armchair security experts here.

Ergo, people assume the security provisions at the WDW gates consist solely of these (granted) simplistic "bag checks." Given we are discussing a firm that already uses cutting edge biometric hand recognition to prevent visitors from sharing passes, how do people know if Disney is or isn't also already using:

- Bomb-sniffing technology (there are polymer devices already in use that can pick up on tiny trace amounts of explosive vapors from over 20 feet away).

- full body backscatter X-ray (which has already been tested at the Orlando airport). It shows a lot more than just what type of underwear you have on....

Bottom line: people should realize that there's often more to a story than just what is literally in front of them!

We just got back 2 days ago, and I was thinking the same thing with the whole finger scan thing, but now you've given me even MORE to consider!
I agree with most posters here. I don't feel safer with the bag check, but I feel there is much more going on than meets the eye. IMHO.