Back to School during the pandemic ...a discussion thread

[Starwind]

A bit of info I would like to point out to everyone. Before school starts and people start freaking out about “outbreaks”. Outbreaks is not even an accurate term. It’s considered an outbreak as soon as a single person tests positive. So you could have one person (adult or child) who has caught covid somewhere else, but an outbreak will be reported at the school/daycare etc even if there isn’t a other single person who got infected from them. So you will hear about “outbreaks” even when all the protocols are working.

A friend of mine recently sent me an article freaking out about kids going back to school because there was an “outbreak” at a day camp. They freaked saying “see kids can’t go back it’s too dangerous, look there was an outbreak at a camp”. There was a single case of one child that tested positive . The child caught it from someone else. Not at the camp. And apparently the outbreak is still listed as having only a single case. That’s not an outbreak.

It can depend on jurisdiction.

Here in Ottawa, this is the definition Ottawa Public Health will use for declaring an outbreak at a school:

What is considered an outbreak in a school?
An outbreak would be declared in a school once it has been determined that there are two positive cases with an epidemiological link (e.g. these children could have become infected with COVID-19 at school either from each other or a common source). Each case will need to be assessed and it would need to be determined that transmission occurred in the school before confirming it as an outbreak since it is possible that children could have been infected outside the school setting.
(https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/e...x#What-is-considered-an-outbreak-in-a-school-)

It can also be context-specific. In the earlier days of the pandemic, for example, they had used a larger # of cases to define an outbreak in long term care homes and when it became clear that was a problem that was contributing to making the outbreaks worse in LTC, "outbreak" in LTC homes was redefined to mean a single case. I believe at some point that became a province-wide definition for LTC homes in Ontario.

SW

 

[damo]

Strongly recommended does not equal required

ETA - I think by now it is evident that I am extremely well informed on this specific issue (school return in ON during C-19).

The hrs I spend on different platforms sourcing info from a variety of sources is extensive. I am diagnosed OCD and am compulsive in research- I simply cannot help myself & must know as much as possible to quiet my mind. I believe I said weeks ago on the border thread that school wouldn’t be the same - rows, no group work etc etc. only to be poo-pooed. I am ALWAYS open to new information, and to being corrected. This scoring points off of others is not helpful.

I honestly feel it is up to the community to keep covid out of the schools. There is only so much that can be done in the schools and by the schools to keep them safe. It's been evident all summer that kids are still getting together in large groups despite the government's rules about bubbles and congregations. If everyone doesn't do their part outside of the school, it makes no difference what the rules are inside of the school.

Not sure what you mean by "This scoring points off of others is not helpful."

 

[DisTXMom]

It can depend on jurisdiction.

Here in Ottawa, this is the definition Ottawa Public Health will use for declaring an outbreak at a school:

What is considered an outbreak in a school?
An outbreak would be declared in a school once it has been determined that there are two positive cases with an epidemiological link (e.g. these children could have become infected with COVID-19 at school either from each other or a common source). Each case will need to be assessed and it would need to be determined that transmission occurred in the school before confirming it as an outbreak since it is possible that children could have been infected outside the school setting.
(https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/e...x#What-is-considered-an-outbreak-in-a-school-)

It can also be context-specific. In the earlier days of the pandemic, for example, they had used a larger # of cases to define an outbreak in long term care homes and when it became clear that was a problem that was contributing to making the outbreaks worse in LTC, "outbreak" in LTC homes was redefined to mean a single case. I believe at some point that became a province-wide definition for LTC homes in Ontario.

SW

Wow. Students here have to do a daily health screener to be on campus- 3 questions: 1) have you tested positive 2) do you have any of the following symptoms...3) have you been in close contact with anyone that has tested positive. A YES on any of the 3 will have the student quarantined (meaning not on campus). Remote learning technology is utilized by on-campus and by remote learners so students know what to do if they get moved to remote. For families that don’t want to wear a mask or can’t, I believe the general response is “remote learning is a better option for your family”(special ed has different rules I believe). Our district cases are tracked by a dashboard that’s updated daily, which is both helpful and distracting/nerve wracking

 

[mshanson3121]

I honestly feel it is up to the community to keep covid out of the schools. There is only so much that can be done in the schools and by the schools to keep them safe. It's been evident all summer that kids are still getting together in large groups despite the government's rules about bubbles and congregations. If everyone doesn't do their part outside of the school, it makes no difference what the rules are inside of the school.

This is a really good point. I know in our area, and even nationally, more and more stores are making masks mandatory, even if the province doesn't require it. NB has not yet made masks mandatory in public like NS has, but I know the government is under a lot of pressure to do so, and honestly, I support it - for this reason. If people want schools to succeed this year, and not get shut down again, not deal with massive disruptions due to isolations etc... then those people need to do their part. Wear a mask, social distance, take general immune boosting/preventative measures, reduce how often you're going into at-risk places (stores etc...).

 

[wdwmom3]

This is a really good point. I know in our area, and even nationally, more and more stores are making masks mandatory, even if the province doesn't require it. NB has not yet made masks mandatory in public like NS has, but I know the government is under a lot of pressure to do so, and honestly, I support it - for this reason. If people want schools to succeed this year, and not get shut down again, not deal with massive disruptions due to isolations etc... then those people need to do their part. Wear a mask, social distance, take general immune boosting/preventative measures, reduce how often you're going into at-risk places (stores etc...).

Agreed. The best ways to keep schools safe is avoiding spread by any other sources. If staff and students never get the virus to begin with it won’t ever be brought into schools.

Our decisions about our son going was made because of the low cases in our immediate area. If cases start going up a lot he’s coming home. I feel if cases are very low in an area schools will be safe. Everyone needs to do their part to make that happen.

 

[quandrea]

Agreed. The best ways to keep schools safe is avoiding spread by any other sources. If staff and students never get the virus to begin with it won’t ever be brought into schools.

Our decisions about our son going was made because of the low cases in our immediate area. If cases start going up a lot he’s coming home. I feel if cases are very low in an area schools will be safe. Everyone needs to do their part to make that happen.

Very true. But every day the case numbers rise in Ontario. We are not on the right trajectory. People are returning to normal in their behaviour, opening up their social contacts at the very time we should be limiting social contacts and being vigilant. I get very frustrated because it’s basic math. Take a look at the graph. Just because we’ve been at this six months and we are sick of it doesn’t make it over. Unless behaviour in the community improves, I fear our numbers will keep rising. When was the last time Ontario saw less than 100 cases in a day?

 

[Madame]

I honestly feel it is up to the community to keep covid out of the schools. There is only so much that can be done in the schools and by the schools to keep them safe. It's been evident all summer that kids are still getting together in large groups despite the government's rules about bubbles and congregations. If everyone doesn't do their part outside of the school, it makes no difference what the rules are inside of the school.

Not sure what you mean by "This scoring points off of others is not helpful."

Yes, I edited my comment as the ETA was more a generalization and I did not make that clear that it was not a direct response to you. Sorry about that. It was clear in my head, but did not translate well.

My point was, what I posted was exactly what you posted from the Ministry; I just removed the spin. Your post felt like a rebuttal to my statement on the realities of trace and rules regarding return to school after symptoms etc. I apologize if that was not the way it was intended. Ministry statements should not be taken at face value. It’s like the “iron ring” supposedly around LTCH. Sounded great but mandatory masking and no staff sharing was NOT happening & the result was the armed forces being sent in to clean up the mess.

When a bus driver from Ottawa posts on Twitter that he has received no PPE and will have 3 to a seat in his bus, I believe him. The bus driver on Twitter telling us that he will be forced to pick up the kid hacking at the bus stop if the parent doesn’t come to collect him/her - I believe him. When a J/SK teacher reports 30 kinders in her room, I believe her. When a trustee has to make a motion to allow teachers to open windows that are screwed shut because the windows are in such poor repair that when open they risk the pane dislodging and falling on a student, I believe her too.

Community responsibility sounds nice, but any ed staff knows that every day kids are given Tylenol & sent to school. Kids diagnosed with strep don’t wait the required number of days before returning and it burns through the class like wildfire. This is NOT an attack on parents - I have dosed my own kids & sent them off bc we all have to work We need a provincial plan for how parents can go to work and still have the ability to take time off if their child is sick; we need small class sizes in elementary to reduce the number of contacts.

We need the public to believe ed staff right now or at least dig a little deeper. Lecce was a deputy director of communications under the last federal government. Spin is his game. Sorry this wandered a bit. I apologize for not being more clear.

 

[Debbie]

...When was the last time Ontario saw less than 100 cases in a day?

If I'm not mistaken, I think I heard August 12 this week.

 

[DisTXMom]

I honestly feel it is up to the community to keep covid out of the schools. There is only so much that can be done in the schools and by the schools to keep them safe. It's been evident all summer that kids are still getting together in large groups despite the government's rules about bubbles and congregations. If everyone doesn't do their part outside of the school, it makes no difference what the rules are inside of the school.

Not sure what you mean by "This scoring points off of others is not helpful."

100%! The cases of COVID at our schools were not caught at school- they were caught at home- largely in social event settings.

 

[wdwmom3]

Yes, I edited my comment as the ETA was more a generalization and I did not make that clear that it was not a direct response to you. Sorry about that. It was clear in my head, but did not translate well.

My point was, what I posted was exactly what you posted from the Ministry; I just removed the spin. Your post felt like a rebuttal to my statement on the realities of trace and rules regarding return to school after symptoms etc. I apologize if that was not the way it was intended. Ministry statements should not be taken at face value. It’s like the “iron ring” supposedly around LTCH. Sounded great but mandatory masking and no staff sharing was NOT happening & the result was the armed forces being sent in to clean up the mess.

When a bus driver from Ottawa posts on Twitter that he has received no PPE and will have 3 to a seat in his bus, I believe him. The bus driver on Twitter telling us that he will be forced to pick up the kid hacking at the bus stop if the parent doesn’t come to collect him/her - I believe him. When a J/SK teacher reports 30 kinders in her room, I believe her. When a trustee has to make a motion to allow teachers to open windows that are screwed shut because the windows are in such poor repair that when open they risk the pane dislodging and falling on a student, I believe her too.

Community responsibility sounds nice, but any ed staff knows that every day kids are given Tylenol & sent to school. Kids diagnosed with strep don’t wait the required number of days before returning and it burns through the class like wildfire. This is NOT an attack on parents - I have dosed my own kids & sent them off bc we all have to work We need a provincial plan for how parents can go to work and still have the ability to take time off if their child is sick; we need small class sizes in elementary to reduce the number of contacts.

We need the public to believe ed staff right now or at least dig a little deeper. Lecce was a deputy director of communications under the last federal government. Spin is his game. Sorry this wandered a bit. I apologize for not being more clear.

Just because we don’t agree with everything people say doesn’t mean we don’t believe people. But there are also other opinions.

I also know many teachers who can’t wait to get back in the classroom and who feel with masks etc their classes will be pretty safe. They think that getting back to class is worth the risk. They are more annoyed with the school boards actions and having to hear about it constantly on the news. I had one mom at my sons soccer practice (who teaches middle school) say she’s getting annoyed at the “fear” being thrown around every day. She just wants to get back to teaching her class and wished everyone would stop going on about things.

I think we need to accept that having 15 kids in every elementary school class will never happen. It’s not just the money. There isn’t enough physical space or enough teachers to make that happen even if money was no object. So we just need to get over that dream and do the best we can. We all have choices we can make.

 

[tgropp]

Gotta love the hypocrisy of this post

Though for the record, I didn't say a word about your character. Was just commenting on your lack of knowledge regarding the topic you were speaking of, which was leading you to insult people.

Go back and read your post. For someone to accuse someone of not having a clue about this or doesn’t have two sweet clues on what he’s talking about etc. is not a compliment. It’s condescending. There are other posters on here that may respectfully disagree with each other but They offer their views and are well respected whether we agree or not. That is the purpose of these boards. Most times everyone learns something new about the discussion. You on the other hand are very forceful, sometimes mean but understanding given what everyone is facing with this pandemic.

 

[pigletto]

So I took my ds16 for some back to school shopping yesterday. I hadn’t bought him anything during the stay at home period and nothing fit. It had to be done in person. He has grown so much and needed to try things on.

At one of the stores the lady on cash said they had been very busy but most parents said they were buying half of what they usually would since their high schoolers were only going to be there half the time . My husband said it might be that people are also being more cautious with money right now too.
The mall was kind of sad. It’s not a big mall but it’s always been full and 5 clothing stores have closed since March.

Ds16 starts with online portion of back to school tomorrow. He’s going in person every other Wednesday , Thursday, and Friday. We still don‘t know if we need a webcam or how the synchronous learning works but I’m sure we will figure it out.

At the risk of sounding too preachy I just want to say I hope we can all be kinder to each other during this time. I think every one of us is really anxious or has legitimate concerns for health and welfare .. no matter what we have chosen to do in the Fall. And just from a personal standpoint .. I feel the school and teachers have done what they can do.. the rest is on me. It’s not their job to shelter me or my family from our own decisions. We have chosen to go back , and we will accept responsibility for how that turns out.
Wishing everyone peace and luck with their return to the school year.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

DD starts grade 7 tomorrow! I am excited for her. I love that her main concern is trying to keep her hair’s face-framing layers curled “away” from her face lol No issues with the mask, distancing, no lockers...just preteen girlie stuff

 

[ottawamom]

Hair curled away from one's face takes me right back to the 70's and my years in high school.

 

[MoreTravels]

DD starts grade 7 tomorrow! I am excited for her. I love that her main concern is trying to keep her hair’s face-framing layers curled “away” from her face lol No issues with the mask, distancing, no lockers...just preteen girlie stuff

My kid is in the same age group, going to grade 7. The school has made it clear they are moving from lower school area to middle school area. They are expected to behave more maturely. I am actually feeling very emotional. I have cleaned up her study room this week in preparation for her school. I have collected all kinds of cartoon drawings, Disney princess merchandises, plush toys, and artistic crafts. Now she is in middle school... I feel good but sad that she grows up so fast. It's a different milestone in middle school. I am worried about all the non-kiddie things such as drugs and cigarettes in senior schools. I guess I am just the worried type of parent.

 

[ottawamom]

Keep and eye on them and be there to hear about their day. You'll know what's going on. Be present in their lives and they will come to you with any issues they have.

 

[bcwife76]

DD starts grade 7 tomorrow! I am excited for her. I love that her main concern is trying to keep her hair’s face-framing layers curled “away” from her face lol No issues with the mask, distancing, no lockers...just preteen girlie stuff

Oh my gosh this is my DD as well!! My oldest also starts grade 7 on Thursday and last night she gave herself a bang trim because why not right? Thankfully they came out well and she made sure to keep the outer layers long so as to frame her face too! Thank goodness for some normalcy in all of this

 

[badiggio]

On the 6 o clock news here in ottawa,heard that 5 separate french schools came up with positive tests today.Only caught part of it,so i don't have all the details.Imo,i can't see it working

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

Go to CBC.ca and click on your locale. They will have the news there.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

On the 6 o clock news here in ottawa,heard that 5 separate french schools came up with positive tests today.Only caught part of it,so i don't have all the details.Imo,i can't see it working

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sept-7-2020-covid-19-update-1.5714939