Avian Flu - How bad could it get?

[Papa Deuce]

EXCELLENT information Dawn, thank you.


The above is also a great reason NOT to buy GENERIC drugs!

The generic companies will NEVER, EVER create a life-saving or extending drug such as this vaccine! (they don't create, they copy!)

Only the BRAND NAME major companies will. The public MUST understand this if we expect new MIRACLE DRUGS!





(getting off my soap box now, putting on my flame-retardant suit... )

OK, I'm not flaming but bewildered. I don't get your thinking. Who cares if generic companies don't create new drugs? What does that matter at all? They make less expensive versions of drugs for less money. That is what they are designed to do and they do that.

Apples and oranges. Sorta like saying don't watch a football game becasue nobody hits home runs... yes, they are both sports, but their objective isn't the same.....

 

[rockin_rep]

Who cares if generic companies don't create new drugs? What does that matter at all? ...

Who should care?
If you are HUMAN you should care as someday, somethings going to get you! Be it bird flu, cancer, cardiac, alzheimers, parkinsons, PICK ANY DISEASE -- drug companies have CREATED a drug for it. The generic companies do NOT research and create, they just copy.

You wanna talk profits?
Little known fact here: The generic companies make a much BIGGER profit than the brand name companies.

Another reason you should care:
Lets think American AUTO INDUSTRY.
People don't buy american = american car industry suffers.

People don't buy brand name drugs = drug companies don't profit, don't have resources to create drugs. We're not talking lay-offs from a declining steel industry, we're talking product that could SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Seriously folks, if the whole country goes generic, the pipeline for new drugs WILL dry up. What will cure you then?

Think about it.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Who should care?
If you are HUMAN you should care as someday, somethings going to get you! Be it bird flu, cancer, cardiac, alzheimers, parkinsons, PICK ANY DISEASE -- drug companies have CREATED a drug for it. The generic companies do NOT research and create, they just copy.


Think about it.

I DO NOT CARE. Generic companies serve the purpose they were created for.... making less expensive versions of already created drugs. And the non generic companies serve the purpose of CREATING NEW DRUGS. Each has their own job to do.

The original drug makers have "x" number of years to hold patent on a drug before it can be made generically. It isn't like generic companies steal the patent from the original makers of drugs. They bide their time, and when it becomes legal for them to do so, they recreate a less expensive version of a drug that it is now legal for them to recreate.

What do some of you think? That company "A" makes a brand new drug on Monday, and that by Tuesday compnay "B", the generic company, is already producing and selling a knock off drug? It doesn't work that way. It takes YEARS before the generic company can sell generic versions of drugs.

 

[rockin_rep]

I DO NOT CARE. Generic companies serve the purpose they were created for.... making less expensive versions of already created drugs. And the non generic companies serve the purpose of CREATING NEW DRUGS. Each has their own job to do.

Oh, sigh......maybe one of you other wise people can better explain..... because if you understood, you would agree....




When you buy Generics, the branded Drug companies lose that sale, lose that profit, do less and less or NO research, and then less or NO LIFE extending or LIFE SAVING THERAPIES are created.

Your dollars for medicine can go only one way --- if they're spent on generics, it is pure, exhorbitant profit for the generic companies with out GIVING BACK by creating NEW DRUGS.

But dollars spent on brand named drugs (AND NOT GENERICS) are put right back into R and D for new therapies that could SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Know anyone who has been cured from cancer by chemo or oral meds? When people said it was a miracle?? First thank God and then thank a drug company who CREATED THE THERAPY. Your purchase of brand name drugs MADE THAT POSSIBLE!

The generic companies do nothing but laugh all the way to the bank.




Good Night all, i sincerely pray that none of you EVER become ill and need a drug that hasn't been created -- due to lack of profits, research and development.....

 

[Papa Deuce]

Oh, sigh......maybe one of you other wise people can better explain..... because if you understood, you would agree....




When you buy Generics, the branded Drug companies lose that sale, lose that profit, do less and less or NO research, and then less or NO LIFE extending or LIFE SAVING THERAPIES are created.

Your dollars for medicine can go only one way --- if they're spent on generics, it is pure, exhorbitant profit for the generic companies with out GIVING BACK by creating NEW DRUGS.

But dollars spent on brand named drugs (AND NOT GENERICS) are put right back into R and D for new therapies that could SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Know anyone who has been cured from cancer by chemo or oral meds? When people said it was a miracle?? First thank God and then thank a drug company who CREATED THE THERAPY. Your purchase of brand name drugs MADE THAT POSSIBLE!

The generic companies do nothing but laugh all the way to the bank.




Good Night all, i sincerely pray that none of you EVER become ill and need a drug that hasn't been created -- due to lack of profits, research and development.....

Sigh all you want. I TOTALLY get it. I understand the creator gets the loss of sale. I get it probaly more than most people. My wife is in the pharmaceutical business. There is the obvious flip side. Generic drug makers help people afford drugs that they might not otherwise have access to. I don't need your condecension. You aren't smarter than I am, necessarily, though you obviously feel like you are. I have a different way of looking at it.

I reapeat. I DO NOT CARE. BTW, I own stock in several drug companies, both generic and non generic. I get it 100%. They both serve a purpose.

BTW, if you think that left to their own devices that non generic drug makers would cut the price of a pill by 50% by their own accord, I have a bridge to sell you.... At least with generics some people may get the help they need.

 

[yeartolate]

I guess I am missing the evil generic drug company point.

How do you expect that our population (either low or fixed income) afford their medications? Many of our seniors are already deciding between food and medications - even with generic!

I fully understand and accept the large markup on name brands to fund research and development, but it is narrow to think that many can afford to buy them.

 

[DawnCt1]

I agree, there is room for both. Sometimes the bioavailability is better in the brand named drug. Often times, it doesn't matter. 100 HCTZ, 25 mg can be purchased for less than $15 out of pocket. That certainly is an appropriate, fiscally responsible approach to control of hypertension (when appropriate). There are a lot more very expensive brand name drugs out there that do the same thing; lower blood pressure, but I will try the generic brand when its effective. A lot of the financial bleeding has been wrought by the law suits and the piling on mentality. Vioxx is a good example.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Ok, I worked for a while in a mental health clinic as a clinical social worker. I spent a lot of time with Drug Reps (I like them, it was the only way I ever got food around here! ) Anyway when a drug does become genertic it is after the patent runs out (15 years). In that 15 years the orginal drug company has made profit off it and reserach and delevoped more. Prozac lost it's patent about 5 years ago, along with Paxil. That is why things like prozac weekly are coming out. Same drug, more effectent, less side effects. One of the reasons pharm companys are constantly comeing out with new meds. (more effeincent, less side effects.)

Also in my expereince (inner city, medicaid based, low income pateints) no patient ever went with out the needed medication because they couldn't afford it. We went out of our way to get it to them and so did the pharm reps. (way out of their way.) In fact I had a friend who was leaving the country for a year for reserach on her PhD. She couldn't get her med's for depression there and the pharm rep (from my work, not her pyshciatrist) saw to it that she had a years worth to take with her.

However if genertic are avilable I have no problem with people using them. If a Dr does or you do have the Doc right DAW on it (Dispense as Written.)

 

[Free4Life11]

I've only needed a few prescriptions and all have been very cheap.

After my surgery, I got 40 hydrocodone pills for about $6. I also needed some pills to cure a bacterial infection and they were about $6 too. These were from the university health center -- couldn't believe how cheap they were. And that was WITHOUT insurance. Maybe they were just fairly "common" drugs??

Drugs are great, but I think healthy lifestyles should really be promoted more than they are in this country. I read that aroud 80% of cancers can be attributed, in some part, to lifestyle.

Now back to the bird flu -- I bought some of these 3M face masks...I guess they protect against dust and allergens. Would those even be effective?? I also recently bought an air purifier with a UV light that supposedly kills viruses and bacteria.

 

[lsyorke]

Sigh all you want. I TOTALLY get it. I understand the creator gets the loss of sale. I get it probaly more than most people. My wife is in the pharmaceutical business. There is the obvious flip side. Generic drug makers help people afford drugs that they might not otherwise have access to. I don't need your condecension. You aren't smarter than I am, necessarily, though you obviously feel like you are. I have a different way of looking at it.

I reapeat. I DO NOT CARE. BTW, I own stock in several drug companies, both generic and non generic. I get it 100%. They both serve a purpose.

BTW, if you think that left to their own devices that non generic drug makers would cut the price of a pill by 50% by their own accord, I have a bridge to sell you.... At least with generics some people may get the help they need.

The majority of drug companies "profits" go into marketing, not research and development. R&D is about 1-2% of the budget. If it's not a blockbusting drug, they're not going to make it. Most of the "new" drugs coming out are variations on a drug already on the market ie. ambien is now Ambien CR, paxil is now paxil CR,Prilosec is now Nexium etc.. Add a new binder, get new exclusivity. Thank about it, what was the last "new" drug to hit the market that wasn't a "me too" drug? Avian flu vaccine.... only if they can get the fear factor up high enough to make a huge profit.

 

[DawnCt1]

Now back to the bird flu -- I bought some of these 3M face masks...I guess they protect against dust and allergens. Would those even be effective?? I also recently bought an air purifier with a UV light that supposedly kills viruses and bacteria.

No. They might be "useful" for respiratory ettiquette so if you have viruses, you aren't spreading them to other people. As far as protection, after about 20 minutes of wear, the masks are damp and allow for transmission of microbes. Of course it would potentially be better than nothing. With regard to the UV light purifier. Are you going to wear it when you are "out and about"? I am not sure how it will be of use to you in your house and how long a unit would take to exchange all of the air throughout your environment. I don't think that its a key tool in infection control but a marketing device that makes the air smell better. There's nothing wrong with that however.

 

[DisneyPhD]

In regards to things like that, this is why so much specuation on this topic is bothersome to me. There is nothing the genral puplic can do about it above and beyond what we normally do. In all honesity stock piling anything only leads to people who really need it not being able to get it. Having said that I have enough food in my house to last a month. That is just they way it always seem to be. I buy it on sale, shop at cost co. If had to we could eat for a month and not starve. (it wouldn't be what we wanted, but we could do it.) Remember what happened with the gas storages? No one wanted to be with out so everyone would top off their tank and drive up prices.

I think this topic is very relivent to people like DawnCt1 husband and others like him. Should HE (and others like him) be doing something about it, YES, and belive they are. We should not put our head in the ground and hope it goes away. Do I think this illness is going to have the potential effect that it COULD have? No I really don't. I have more faith in our medical professionals and others like DawnCt1's husband. Is it going to be a problem? Yes, like AIDS, Cancer, heart disease, countless other medcail problems out there.

I think the media needs to act responsibly about this topic and NOT start a major panic.

 

[DawnCt1]

[QUOTE=DisneyPhD In all honesity stock piling anything only leads to people who really need it not being able to get it. Having said that I have enough food in my house to last a month. That is just they way it always seem to be. I buy it on sale, shop at cost co. If had to we could eat for a month and not starve. (it wouldn't be what we wanted, but we could do it.) Remember what happened with the gas storages? No one wanted to be with out so everyone would top off their tank and drive up prices.

I think just having enough food on hand is a reasonable approach to living anyway. I have had times when I haven't been able to go shopping, due to illness, injury, foot surgery at one time, and its prudent just to be able to be self sufficient. Its also reasonable to avoid crowded shopping malls, etc during cold and flu season in any year, if one is suseptable to every bug. That's is about all that any individual can do at any time. I really think it is awful that people are stockpiling Tamiflu. I saw that you can order it for a 50% mark up over the phone or internet (new item on TV). That just prevents it from being focused where it needs to be in the first place, and secondly we don't know how effective it will even be.

 

[DisneyPhD]

That is what I was talking about. I am always prepared (at least moslty) with a case of water in my basement, a frezzer full of food and a pantry well stocked. Mostly because of all the reasons you list and I don't like to run to the store in need.

Fear is not a pretty thing. If the genral puplic starts getting very fearful of this (more then being informed and careful) then we start having more problems then the illness themsevles.

 

[Free4Life11]

No. They might be "useful" for respiratory ettiquette so if you have viruses, you aren't spreading them to other people. As far as protection, after about 20 minutes of wear, the masks are damp and allow for transmission of microbes. Of course it would potentially be better than nothing. With regard to the UV light purifier. Are you going to wear it when you are "out and about"? I am not sure how it will be of use to you in your house and how long a unit would take to exchange all of the air throughout your environment. I don't think that its a key tool in infection control but a marketing device that makes the air smell better. There's nothing wrong with that however.

http://www.trueair.com/air_purifiers/04163.html

That's the one I got. Says it kills bacteria, viruses, and mold. If bird flu hits, I am holing myself up in my apartment and running that baby on full-speed! I mainly got it because I have pretty bad allergies and also for odors. The UV thing is an added bonus for me. I think the only ones that really do THAT much are the gigantic, ridiculously expensive ones that they have for hospitals and such. But still, it eases me mind a little bit.

 

[mafibisha]

Wow, it's good to see this discussed, especially considering all the other topics discussed here

Sometimes the bioavailability is better in the brand named drug.

Exactly. They aren't always the same, as other posters have pointed out on many medical threads.

Correct me if I'm wrong (ha, I'm sure you will) but the FDA gives generics a 20% variance in bioavailability but brands only 3%, which can mean a humungous difference in absorbtion, excretion, efficacy. There are many ways a drug can be harmful if not made correctly. It can make the difference between being effective and ineffective, and life or death.

If you've ever set foot in a drug company facility and then a generic house, you'll see a huge difference in quality control and safety. And cleanliness, yuck. There are many cases of unnecessary deaths when a pharmacist failed to DAW (dispense as written) and a generic was dispensed that caused the death of several people.

I get it probaly more than most people. My wife is in the pharmaceutical business.

Wow. I'm really sorry to say this and I do with all due respect, but I find that very hard to believe.

Anyway, can't wait to read the next posts on this thread. While it would be presumptuous to think an internet forum can change someone's mind, I'm glad this is getting people thinking.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Wow. I'm really sorry to say this and I do with all due respect, but I find that very hard to believe.

Anyway, can't wait to read the next posts on this thread. While it would be presumptuous to think an internet forum can change someone's mind, I'm glad this is getting people thinking.

You question whether my wife works in the pharmaceutical industry? LOL. She has worked for the same company for 22 years. She doesn't work for a drug company but she does work for a pharmaceutical ( clinical ) trials firm.

I can't belive anybody can't see that generic drug companies serve a great purpose in this world, and that there definitely is room for both typs of companies.

 

[phamton]

In regards to things like that, this is why so much specuation on this topic is bothersome to me. There is nothing the genral puplic can do about it above and beyond what we normally do.

I think this topic is very relivent to people like DawnCt1 husband and others like him. Should HE (and others like him) be doing something about it, YES, and belive they are. We should not put our head in the ground and hope it goes away. Do I think this illness is going to have the potential effect that it COULD have? No I really don't. I have more faith in our medical professionals and others like DawnCt1's husband. Is it going to be a problem? Yes, like AIDS, Cancer, heart disease, countless other medcail problems out there.

I think the media needs to act responsibly about this topic and NOT start a major panic.

I totally agree. You said what I wanted to say but much more clearly.

Again, most people who do not form a scab are not immune and do not have the opportunity to follow through with repeated blood work to verify that. You were in a minority group who did form immunity and had the opportunity to verify that with blood work. If large groups of people were being vaccinated, it would be impractical to test the apparent "non takes" since the lack of scab formation is usually due to "non takes".

Sorry to keep beating this into the ground. But my point is that most medical researchers claim smallpox immunity doesn't last for very many years, possibly 10 years or less. The researchers felt that I didn't form a scab because I was still very much immune to smallpox even though it had been 50 years since I was originally vaccinated. When I was vaccinated last year for the research project, my body recognized the virus and fought it. More than likely, if I were actually exposed to smallpox (hypothetically, of course) that I had enough immunity left from my vaccination as a child to have little effect. They assumed this because the vaccination last year didn't effect me enough even to form a scab.

 

[rockin_rep]

Also in my expereince (inner city, medicaid based, low income pateints) no patient ever went with out the needed medication because they couldn't afford it. We went out of our way to get it to them and so did the pharm reps. (way out of their way.) In fact I had a friend who was leaving the country for a year for reserach on her PhD. She couldn't get her med's for depression there and the pharm rep (from my work, not her pyshciatrist) saw to it that she had a years worth to take with her.

Yes, ask your doctor. They have samples of most drugs to be given to we the patients.

The 'evil drug' companies ~ you know, the ones who create life extending drugs for cancer, alzheimers, aids, parkinsons, heart disease etc ~ continue to help ~ read on below ~ know any GENERIC companies doing this!?




Partnership for Prescription Assistance


This groundbreaking initiative was launched April 5th by America’s pharmaceutical companies and more than 50 national organizations representing doctors, nurses, pharmacists, patient advocates and civic organizations. To raise awareness and encourage patients to enroll, the Partnership for Prescription Assistance is running a national advertising campaign and conducting grassroots outreach in all 50 states. Partner organizations are working to spread the word in their respective communities.

"Patient assistance programs and private company drug discount programs currently help many seniors afford their medications, but very few seniors or other younger persons with limited incomes know about them," said James Firman, president and CEO of The National Council on the Aging. "It is very difficult reaching people who need the most help; making this kind of effort to reach out and enroll many more is worthwhile and to be commended."

Since launch day, patients from all 50 states have called the toll-free phone number (1-888-4PPA-NOW) or visited the user-friendly Web site (www.pparx.org), and the Partnership for Prescription Assistance has already helped pre-qualify patients for assistance for more than 300,000 prescription medicines.

The Partnership for Prescription Assistance is the only program that provides a single point of access to more than 275 public and private patient assistance programs, including more than 150 programs offered by pharmaceutical companies.

More than 50 national organizations including the American Academy of Family Physicians, American Cancer Society, American Academy of Physician Assistants, American College of Emergency Physicians, NAACP, National Alliance for Hispanic Health, National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, National Association of Chain Drug Stores, National Medical Association, National Urban League, United Way of America, as well as a fast-growing list of state and local organizations, are working with America's pharmaceutical companies to spread the word about the program.

“We are pleased to be a part of the Partnership for Prescription Assistance and to know that so many people have been helped in just the first three weeks,” said Myrl Weinberg, president of the National Health Council whose members include more than 115 patient and provider organizations. To find out if they may qualify, patients should call toll-free1-888-4PPA-NOW (1-888-477-2669) to speak with a trained specialist or visit www.pparx.org.

 

[rockin_rep]

Correct me if I'm wrong (ha, I'm sure you will) but the FDA gives generics a 20% variance in bioavailability but brands only 3%, which can mean a humungous difference in absorbtion, excretion, efficacy. There are many ways a drug can be harmful if not made correctly. It can make the difference between being effective and ineffective, and life or death.

If you've ever set foot in a drug company facility and then a generic house, you'll see a huge difference in quality control and safety. And cleanliness, yuck. There are many cases of unnecessary deaths when a pharmacist failed to DAW (dispense as written) and a generic was dispensed that caused the death of several people.

Exactly. Generics are made ALL OVER THE WORLD, often in THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES where there is Nooo *quality control* whatsover. Heaven knows what's in them, where they *were* as in what touched them.... you've seen the sad pictures of sweat shops, well they don't only make clothes!
Generics are then rebottled, labeled by generic houses and resold at a HUGE profit, much more than the brand name profits.

I wouldn't trust food when i didn't know its source, so i'm certainly not trusting generics for my precious family!

Also, as in the *GM closing and layoff thread*. if we don't as a nation start buying American (while there are still American goods to be bought!) we are gonna be in big trouble.

But yes, it's great this topic is being discussed as there is nothing more important than our family's health.



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