Avatar coming to Animal Kingdom

[nytimez]

So, not sure if this has been discussed or not, but James Cameron did an interview and stated that the area would be "12 acres of Pandora."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=086tOrvi9UE

Now, when Potter was announced in 2007, it was claimed to have 20 acres worth of immersive environment.

(Go to 40 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3u-s51KDQY

Anyone else think this may be a bit small? Even now, people complain about Potter's small size.

I don't know, 12 acres still sounds like a rather large patch of land to me. It's the size of Carsland, no?

 

[Figment632]

I work in all 4 parks although I spend the majority of my time in DAK and I have noticed something

I get very few people holding a map and walking up to me while at DHS, MK or Epcot. Guests at DAK seem genuinely confused. Many guests simply have no idea where on a map they are or how to get to where they need to be.

Also I believe many people go into DAK and probably miss half of what they park has to offer. Unlike the 3 other parks things are not out there in your face when you walk around a corner, you really need to explore and look for specific things.

Anyone remember the old boat ride at DAK? how quickly that failed. It's a shame because they could have done so much with it.

It failed because people thought it was a ride when it's was really just transportation.

 

[mousemoose]

DAK is the same everywhere you go. Sure the lands look different but there is no difference from Asia and Africa it's the same.

Avatar land will be a lush jungle and will look the same as Asia and Africa.

Theme-wise, I thought Everest was so neat because the snow-capped mountains are a good contrast to so much jungle. The Australian Outback would have made a neat land because of the contrast to the rest of the park.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It failed because people thought it was a ride when it's was really just transportation.

no...it failed because they did none of the attractions aspects of the ride due to budget cuts...and just opened it because it was there.

there is an old story (which was told to me by two CMs who actually worked the great movie ride when it opened) that right after MGM opened - the Wicked Witch of the West in the great Movie ride (the first A100...before she was hired to kill john connor...for you tech buffs) was malfunctioning and got caught when she stood up and was leaking hydraulic fluid. So they had a Ride Operator with a stick hit her on the back to get the sequence back going...each time it ran.

How does this relate to AK? I'll tell you. The reason they had to do that with the witch was because the movie ride was basically the only thing that was available for the paying customers...there was nothing else in the park.

The same with the boat ride at DAK...there wasn't enough to justify the ticket price when they opened...safaris, ctx, and nothing for 50 bucks. That was a problem on Day 1 and its a problem still today.

And please, defenders, don't give me the standard "but look at the flora, fauna, and detail in the park design...i could spend a whole day just looking at it"
I'll tell you...that may be the truth for you, but Disney management isn't pumping that behind closed doors. They think its a borderline - if not outright - failure as well. There would be no avatar where they're splitting money with James Cameron if it were not so. Don't be naive.

But as i said before...MGM wasn't meant to be an experience like MK or EPCOT...it was designed to be a look into a real, functioning, revenue generating, entertainment studio. That vision was not going to suceed...but the fact that the park was 1/3 park and 2/3 production was intentional.

NOT SO WITH AK. It has the biggest park footprint and had an entire 3rd of the WDW resort area already constructed or under construction around it.

It's supposed to be an anchor.

And while its not as dismal a failure as DCA or Studios Paris (now THAT is a true failure when it opened...wow)...that doesn't mean its successful.

And come on, Pete...you know better. You can't just point to an attendance figure and you know why.
You know that saturation on the WDW property evens out the attendance. You know that tickets register when you enter....they don't turn the turnstiles around and measure when you leave - which if they did would provide a much more accurate assessment of park usage. To be honest...contrary to the apologists...the word is out on AK. People go in at park opening for the safari...ride the two rides...then leave. Ghost town at 1 oclock -thats a 5 hour operating window for the park that i would assume has the highest overhead costs. Pretty Bad. I don't necesarily agree with Figment on all things...but he's dead on here.
Universal Studios was pretty terrible when IOA opened...like really bad. But its attendance was equal. That is runoff effect. And like it or not...both MGM and especially AK have gotten the benefit of the runoff effect.
Come on...don't play dumb on this.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Avatar land will be a lush jungle and will look the same as Asia and Africa.

Theme-wise, I thought Everest was so neat because the snow-capped mountains are a good contrast to so much jungle. The Australian Outback would have made a neat land because of the contrast to the rest of the park.

I still think they have an obligation to add more animal environments and attractions...

Don't reverse course now and abandon the conservation and animal exposure. contrary to what your advertising says: half your park is a zoo.

If they abandon it...it is wrong. even if they build the 5 coolest rides in disney history there.

i still hope for an austrailia, north america, south america or some kinda hybrid.

 

[Figment632]

The river cruise was defined to be nothing more that the boats in EC Disney has specifically stated this was the reason for closure. Guests thought it was a ride and it would get a 2 hour wait.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The river cruise was defined to be nothing more that the boats in EC Disney has specifically stated this was the reason for closure. Guests thought it was a ride and it would get a 2 hour wait.

I have read different accounts....one which stated that it was to be a transport/ attraction that led to the different lands...featuring dinosaurs at dinoland...the most sophisticated animatronic ever in the form of a fire-breathing dragon at "Beastly Kingdom"...

I guess we'll never no for sure.

I know that neither Disney Parks, nor WDI will admit that something didn't turn out as they wanted....

so they blame the stupid customers for not getting that it was basically an extension of the EPCOT Friendship Boats....convenient, huh?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

40% referee to DAK as the Zoo
89% said there is not enough to do at DAK
43% said they had no desire to return on their next trip.
93% where impressed by the theming
98% where asked about if they had any issues with EE and said no
90% Said they prefer the other parks
37% thought the park was too big
78% were confused by centralized FP
56% were displeased with the TS
85% were happy with then QS
79% wanted more water attractions
63% wanted transportation through out the park

The rest of the stats from the survey took me awhile fir him to send me the rest.

these numbers are very telling and are about what i would expect. And alot of those that look at all sides of the disney operation probably know these deep down.

The telling is that the satisfaction with the theming is very high....but it doesn't enough to return. And of course - the 89% "not enough to do" is the killshot.

nothing else matters. If people are bored...they don't stay, they don't eat, and they don't spend.

And that is all. That is all that matters to those with the corner offices in the Dwarf Palace in Burbank (look at a picture of Team Disney in Anaheim...before you think that's somekinda slur)

That is the problem...in a survey of 20 questions....probably only the one question really matters.

that and "would you recommend this to a friend/ family"

that is the proverbial big dog as well.

 

[skier_pete]

40% referee to DAK as the Zoo
89% said there is not enough to do at DAK
43% said they had no desire to return on their next trip.
93% where impressed by the theming
98% where asked about if they had any issues with EE and said no
90% Said they prefer the other parks
37% thought the park was too big
78% were confused by centralized FP
56% were displeased with the TS
85% were happy with then QS
79% wanted more water attractions
63% wanted transportation through out the park

The rest of the stats from the survey took me awhile fir him to send me the rest.

Those are very cool #s to see. Telling is the "90% prefer other parks" I'm sure is dissapointing to them, but boy there's some silly ones. 79% want more water attractions? What? I would think that question would vary wildly if polled in the summer vs winter.

I was right on with the EE question – why fix something that most don’t perceive as broken?

I do find it sad that DAK is so underappreciated. And especially that 40 % think its a zoo. As I say, we love it. But it is a different experience for a theme park, and many (if not most) don't want different. What I often proclaim that people miss out on - that a zoo never provides - its not the theming - but its the level of interaction and knowledge available from the CM. Almost every exhibit has a CM assigned that you can ask about the animals and their habits. Since most people aren't used to this from their local "zoo" they don't know what to do with it. We are always asking questions about the animals. We'll spend an hour on each of the trails. Oh, just thinking about this makes me want to be there. Maybe that's why I have such a hard time seeing it as a failure, cause I think it's so brilliant.

And come on, Pete...you know better. You can't just point to an attendance figure and you know why.
You know that saturation on the WDW property evens out the attendance. You know that tickets register when you enter....they don't turn the turnstiles around and measure when you leave - which if they did would provide a much more accurate assessment of park usage. To be honest...contrary to the apologists...the word is out on AK. People go in at park opening for the safari...ride the two rides...then leave. Ghost town at 1 oclock -thats a 5 hour operating window for the park that i would assume has the highest overhead costs. Pretty Bad. I don't necesarily agree with Figment on all things...but he's dead on here.
Universal Studios was pretty terrible when IOA opened...like really bad. But its attendance was equal. That is runoff effect. And like it or not...both MGM and especially AK have gotten the benefit of the runoff effect.
Come on...don't play dumb on this.

OK – I’ll agree the attendance doesn’t look at how long people are there. But I have to say the park is NOT a ghost town at 1 PM, nor is it a ghost town at 4 PM. That could be more about people coming late and still only staying half a day. But they are definitely there. (Again, we stay there for two full days, rope drop to usually around 4-5 PM. For us the "failure" park is DHS...we haven't stayed their for a full day in 4 years - though we've allotted a full day this year. Eat rarely eat there - never shop there.)

Also, even though that survey indicates 43% said they won't return, they must be returning. If not, they wouldn't continue to increase attendance.

I guess the big difference in success versus failure is I don't see it as an all or nothing situation. Failure to me is "this doesn't work at all". Saying "this didn't go as well as planned", well maybe its the engineer in me, but 90 % of what we do doesn't go as well as planned, but isn't a failure. To me, a failure is something you scrap.

Whatever - let's agree to disagree. I'm done arguing the point.

I am with you on the sensibility of expanding DAK. Adding Avatar land should in theory be a boost the way Harry Potter land was to IoA - though I don't think it has near the popularity that Harry has. However, if they are smart and put in something that people will want to do again and again...then maybe they no longer have to worry about people leaving at noon.

 

[Figment632]

Major problem with Avatar read the quote

So according to Cameron this is only going to be "12 acres of Pandora".

That's basically half the size of Wizarding World of Harry Potter, which everyone moans about being too small.

Red flag.

 

[Mike730]

Hey guys, I'm a super noob here but I've been reading your boards for months and I finally decided to join in on the action. Well anyway, I saw what Timmy Boy said......

So, not sure if this has been discussed or not, but James Cameron did an interview and stated that the area would be "12 acres of Pandora."

Now, when Potter was announced in 2007, it was claimed to have 20 acres worth of immersive environment.

Anyone else think this may be a bit small? Even now, people complain about Potter's small size.

..... And i took it upon myself to use Wikimapia to measure out 12 acres. It turns out that the plot of land at the front of AK INCLUDING Camp Minnie Mickey is almost EXACTLY 12 acres. Coincidence???? maybe....

And also, Universal lied.... I measured WWoHP its just over 8 acres. More than 2/3 of which is taken up by the dragon coaster and castle building. So, Disney can potentially make Avatarland much bigger than potter.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

Hey guys, I'm a super noob here but I've been reading your boards for months and I finally decided to join in on the action. Well anyway, I saw what Timmy Boy said......



..... And i took it upon myself to use Wikimapia to measure out 12 acres. It turns out that the plot of land at the front of AK INCLUDING Camp Minnie Mickey is almost EXACTLY 12 acres. Coincidence???? maybe....

And also, Universal lied.... I measured WWoHP its just over 8 acres. More than 2/3 of which is taken up by the dragon coaster and castle building. So, Disney can potentially make Avatarland much bigger than potter.

First of all welcome!

No. It's not a coincidence. Camp MM is where Beastly Kingdom was supposed to be. Avatar land is Somewhat a spiritual successor to BK. (Some say it is some say it isn't) CMM is just M&G's and FOTLK. So personally i believe it isn't a coincidence. They need to do something with the space and i think they found what it is.

 

[Mike730]

Thanks! and yes of course I know all about BK. I figured I'd just give more support to the side Camp MM side of the "where's it goin?" debate. (despite my hopes that they were still holding onto the BK idea)

 

[disneysource]

They are probably going to go with the name "Pandora" for the Avatar land. It blends with the other names.

 

[Josh Hendy]

It's not what I would have wished for at AK, but I guess it's better than nothing. I love AK but it really needs more rides. It started out as a an imitation of Busch Gardens but they seemed to think that with zoo + beautiful landscaping they could get away with hardly any thrill rides or other first-class attractions. In other words they lost their way.

I would have added another land such as Australia, then in 10 years added The Americas, then in 10 years added The Arctic (an indoor mini land), and so on. And I would keep on adding major rides and attractions every 3 years or so until there were as many top-class rides as Busch Gardens (which I think is up to around 5 major coasters, 3 water rides and many minor rides plus a train and a skyway). AK is 4 coasters, 2 water rides, a skyway and 5 or 6 minor rides short of the standard. And Busch Gardens is no slouch in the animal department either - I haven't tried to count 'em up but I think Busch might have an edge.

Many of the animals at Busch are a lot more fun to watch and photograph too, because they're in enclosures right next to the walkways and not just a blur that you can barely see (and sometimes not see at all) when you go bouncing by at 20 mph in the back of a bus. Elephants, rhinos, crocs, ostriches, ... And Busch has tortoises! We tried to find a tortoise at AK this year and we got lost in all the paths around the Tree of Life. People were giving us looks because they thought we were walking the wrong way on the exit path for Bug's Life. None of the cast members knew what kind of animals they had back there.

One major area in which Busch Gardens outshines AK is internal transportation. You might not think that a skyway is a valid people mover, but it is great! We used it several times to get from coaster to coaster and it was relaxing and fun to watch the animals from it.

Dinoland is getting to be an embarrassment, do you think that's where they'll put Pandora? On our last trip we literally did not even walk through D-land, even though we spent 7 hours in the park.

I see from the survey results that somebody posted previously, evidently Disney knows EXACTLY what is wrong with AK ... but I'm not sure if Avatar will make a big difference. Does it have enough juice to kindle the public's interest? Only one of my kids saw the film, thought it was good but had nothing else to say about it. The other kids weren't interested in the film and there doesn't seem to be any buzz among either adults or kids where I come from, talking about sequels, etc. So while any new, high-quality attraction in AK would help, I don't think an Avatar land will bring a significant increase in the number of visitors.

Maybe Disney should stop trying to find the next Harry Potter franchise and just start adding coasters, a skyway and other fun rides to what is already a very beautiful park.

 

[Max Rebo]

Thanks! and yes of course I know all about BK. I figured I'd just give more support to the side Camp MM side of the "where's it goin?" debate. (despite my hopes that they were still holding onto the BK idea)

Camp MM also makes sense, because that's the area that was previously home to the Pocahontas stage show, and "Avatar" and "Pocahontas" are more or less the same story.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Maybe Disney decided that animals are not worth the cost, and chose Avatar because all they need is exotic landscaping and a few CMs in blue makeup plus audioanimatronic alien creatures.