Automatic Defibulators at Disney

[GalDisney]

With the most recent death at WDW they are talking again about the automatic defibulators and the lack of knowledge among castmemebers to use them. Well, I dont think it is Disneys responsibility to even have them on property, except for medical personell to use. I mean, jees, these people could have passed out and died at the local wal mart ..or even at home and they dont have these devices. And what about a few yrs back when disney did not even have these. Maybe disney needs to remove the automatic defibulators from the parks in that case. It is not disneys responsibility and i am tired of these people harping on it. just my 2 cents.

 

[libba]

Unfortunately the AEDs will only help a certain protion of the population. this child with the heart defect would not have been helped. AEDs only work with certain irregular rhythms.

 

[CinderBelle]

Almost all Walmarts have AED machines now and employees are being trained to use them! Disney should have AED machines- there are certain cases where it will save someone's life. I understand your point but I just don't agree. Thousands of people pass through there on any given day and they should be prepared. Just my opinion.

 

[MartDM]

I think having AED's available is a great idea and their use doesn't have to be the sole responsibility of the castmembers. Many members of the public, including lay people like myself, are able to use them (I took the American Red Cross CPR/AED training class at my local volunteer ambulance corps. and am certified to use them). I wouldn't hesitate to step in & help in an emergency if the equipment was available - that's the whole reason I went for training.

 

[NotUrsula]

Just to be clear, Disney parks *DO* all have AED's; though at present there are not enough of them to have one at the exit to every ride that has health warnings (which is what the currently pending lawsuit is claiming should be the proper standard.)

I'm betting that once the lawsuit is settled, WDW will put AED's in place at every ride, probably even for things like Dumbo, if for no other reason than PR damage control.

 

[objan]

Geeeesh.......the AED"S are certainly life saving and the thought of removing them from the parks is really rather idiotic. There are cases where an AED is just not going to revive the pt. I am an RN and a basic life support instructor. The key is to have people trained to USE them. No offense to Disney.....(Iwould never do that)....but for all the money they are making they could have one at every ride and still not even touch what they make in a day. Just a thought.........jan

 

[BlindTyldak]

I definitely don't think they should get rid of them, and I think having more of them in the park is a great idea. My bigger concern is that people who do not understand how they work or what they are really for might see someone collapse and automatically assume, especially in light of recent events, that one should be used and delay more appropriate measures or forget basic CPR training. It's so easy for people to panic in a bad situation and jump for the solution that's right in front of their face.

I'd much rather see EMT's staffed at each park during operating hours, if they are not already. This is common for many state fairs and other venues with much smaller attendance, I don't see why it couldn't be done at disney.

 

[chirurgeon]

OP Blind Tyldak:

My bigger concern is that people who do not understand how they work or what they are really for might see someone collapse and automatically assume, especially in light of recent events, that one should be used and delay more appropriate measures or forget basic CPR training. It's so easy for people to panic in a bad situation and jump for the solution that's right in front of their face.


AED will only work, I.E. give a shock, if the machine reads the rhythm problem that the machine can "fix", so even if someone saw the AED and wanted to use it in the wrong situation, the machine would not shock. That is the way I was trained on them in my last CPR class.

The boy's death is tragic, but we may never know if an AED and people trained to use it would have saved his life.

 

[tinkerbellcruiser]

GalDisney, I can't believe you said that. Having AED'S at all the rides that have health warning's is the responsible thing to do. I hope that you or your family never needs an AED close by one day.

Libba, they have not said what kind of defect he has had yet. How do you know an AED would not work?

My son's both have heart problems and I am so thankful for everyone who has put one in place. No one knows when the will need one close by. They save so many lives.

 

[BlindTyldak]

OP Blind Tyldak:

My bigger concern is that people who do not understand how they work or what they are really for might see someone collapse and automatically assume, especially in light of recent events, that one should be used and delay more appropriate measures or forget basic CPR training. It's so easy for people to panic in a bad situation and jump for the solution that's right in front of their face.


AED will only work, I.E. give a shock, if the machine reads the rhythm problem that the machine can "fix", so even if someone saw the AED and wanted to use it in the wrong situation, the machine would not shock. That is the way I was trained on them in my last CPR class.

The boy's death is tragic, but we may never know if an AED and people trained to use it would have saved his life.

here's an example of a situation that I feel could be a "misuse" of an AED, so you'll see what I mean. not too long ago a girl passed away after riding on a roller coaster at another park . . . she choked on her chewing gum in the middle of the ride. Choking is not the most common reason that someone would pass out on a ride, but it IS something that basic CPR training can sometimes detect; we all know that the mouth sweep is just something you do, no questions asked. My concern would be that after pulling an unresponsive person off of a ride, the basic CPR proceedures might be skipped in deference to "lets see if the machine gives us the green light" in a panic situation. Or worse, that heaven forbid, Disney (or any company with them) could adopt an unspoken management aura of "we have the things and we're going to be in trouble if we don't at least try them", again, possibly delaying more appropriate measures. That's why while I'd like to see them more readily available, I'd really also like to see EMT's at the parks that aren't worried about ride operation, crowd control, and corporate image, just in saving the life.

 

[IndyJammer]

It's almost ironic that the ECCU (Emergency Cardiac Care Update) Conference was at Coronado Springs last weekend! The main point was that AEDs DO save lives & should be used for ALL emergencies. The best chance of survival for someone with a cardiac problem is immediate by-stander CPR and defibrillator within 3-5 minutes. I would be more than willing to bet that there was an AED applied to this victim within 3-5 minutes in this case.

Today's AEDs are so easy to use that ANY cast member or other guest would be able to use it with NO problem. Basically, you turn it on & it tells you what to do from there. That's why they are at almost every Wal-mart and mall across America.

But, they are not Miracle-Machines. Even IF the victim had a rhythm that would have been re-started by the AED, there is a still a great chance that they victim would have still died. But, having it there is still a Million times better than not.

 

[deide71]

I couldn't agree more. AED's are very easy to use. Their use is taught in most Basic Life support classes, and they could potentially save many lives if they were more readily available.


Compared to the cost of a life they are a relative bargain.

 

[#1MMFan]

here's an example of a situation that I feel could be a "misuse" of an AED, so you'll see what I mean. not too long ago a girl passed away after riding on a roller coaster at another park . . . she choked on her chewing gum in the middle of the ride. Choking is not the most common reason that someone would pass out on a ride, but it IS something that basic CPR training can sometimes detect; we all know that the mouth sweep is just something you do, no questions asked. My concern would be that after pulling an unresponsive person off of a ride, the basic CPR proceedures might be skipped in deference to "lets see if the machine gives us the green light" in a panic situation. Or worse, that heaven forbid, Disney (or any company with them) could adopt an unspoken management aura of "we have the things and we're going to be in trouble if we don't at least try them", again, possibly delaying more appropriate measures. That's why while I'd like to see them more readily available, I'd really also like to see EMT's at the parks that aren't worried about ride operation, crowd control, and corporate image, just in saving the life.

Just a heads-up:- Last time when I did my Advanced Paediatric Life Support (APLS) course we were told blind-mouth-sweeping was inadvisable because you can push an object deeper. I believe that you should look and if the object is clearly seen, carefully attempt removal. Of course, if this girl was witnessed to have choked on gum then you follow the "choking" algorithm. I will check with my colleague who is an APLS/ALS/ATLS trainer and senior ER doctor.

 

[Addicted2TheMouse]

With the most recent death at WDW they are talking again about the automatic defibulators and the lack of knowledge among castmemebers to use them. Well, I dont think it is Disneys responsibility to even have them on property, except for medical personell to use. I mean, jees, these people could have passed out and died at the local wal mart ..or even at home and they dont have these devices. And what about a few yrs back when disney did not even have these. Maybe disney needs to remove the automatic defibulators from the parks in that case. It is not disneys responsibility and i am tired of these people harping on it. just my 2 cents.

I think that's a very ignorant opinion. In a cardiac arrest, the person's best chance of survival is with early defibrillation. There's no reason why all Disney CMs couldn't be trained in CPR and the basic course now includes training to use an AED.

As for an AED being "misused", it's pretty unlikely. The ones I've seen literally tell you what to do. For example, if you put it on the victim and their rhythm isn't a shockable one, the machine says "Shock not advised, continue CPR". Mind you, people using an AED have to know CPR. But even if the CMs didn't know CPR (which I think is inexcusable) imagine all the people around that might. With the number of people in Disney, I'd be willing to bet there's a CPR trained person around you there at just about any time.

 

[libba]

OOPS - let me clarify! Didn't mean I thought they should get rid of them! Definitely not. Yes if the boy had a defect that caused an irrregular HR then it might have saved him but not a structural defect. I am an RN and totally agree that these wonderful machines should be in all public areas!!!!Sorry my post seemed to say otherwise!

 

[CaipiraBob]

I wouldn't hesitate to step in & help in an emergency if the equipment was available - that's the whole reason I went for training.

That's the key. Look, most people can't program their VCRs. What makes anyone think they're going to start operating a defibulator, even with ease-of-use instructions included? One needs to be lucky enough that someone is willing and able to apply such training at a criticle moment.

And I will add one more thing although it disgusts and saddens me to do so. There are those who will justifiably avoid using said unit for fear of a lawsuit. Yes, disgusting, but true. If you aren't 100% sure of what's happening in a certain scenario, would you be willing to ZOT someone with one of those? These are factors that will certainly impact who is willing to aid someone with one of these units in a time of emergency.

In truth, for myself though, lacking the AD training that many people have taken upon themselves to go through, I would hesitate to use one of those units for fear of doing more damage. Manual resuscitation? I'm there and I have performed this on two people in my life. One was necessary and may have helped to save this person's life. The other time, it was another condition that caused the individual to pass out. If I had zotted him (yeah, a "him" and I still get Christmas cards from their family) it would have been curtains.

Sometimes the old standbys are the best. Boyscout training goes a long way in an emergency situation. Cheers to those of you who have taken it further.

 

[Addicted2TheMouse]

CapiraBob- The thing is, the next time you recertify your CPR training, you will get training on using an AED. It's basically just a matter of knowing when to hook it up. If the person doesn't need a shock, the machine won't give one so you can't really mess up. And if you don't have the training, no one would expect you to use one. I think it would be irresponsible to do so actually.

Of course, there will always be people who will choose not to help, for fear of lawsuits, body fluids, etc. That's your right. And I don't know about the U.S. but here in Canada there is a Good Samaritan law that means people can't sue you for attempting to save their life.

 

[CaipiraBob]

CapiraBob- The thing is, the next time you recertify your CPR training, you will get training on using an AED.

You're right. This year I'll check out the offerings for training they have through the Scouts. I volunteer as an assistant, and have higher level training available I'll take advantage of.

I don't know about the U.S. but here in Canada there is a Good Samaritan law that means people can't sue you for attempting to save their life.

Yet another lesson in common sense from our friends up North.

In '93, a woman was driving down the road fairly fast near where I was jogging. From behind me I heard a huge crash and crunching metal. She had hit a car on the side of the road and flipped. I ran over and no one was near. She was bleeding from scratches, nothing major and she was crying softly "Help me...help me get out". So I pulled out my "utility" knife (yes, I was jogging, that's all) and cut her seat belt and help her work her way out of the car. We were worried about a fire starting so I figured "best to get her away from here since there's no sign of major injury."

Also while in the car, I noticed several open beer cans and the smell of beer made an impression on me, but I didn't really consider it until later. I helped her sit down on the side of the road when I saw the police and EMS arriving down the road. I knew they'd cover it from there. I remembered the beer and decided it was time to leave. No one was injured except the lady and I figured the rest would be "tell tale" to the authorities. I left and finished my jog, who wants or needs to spend their time being questioned by police and possibly getting pulled into a DUI trial. She was already as good as busted. At least she was safe, and if she was DUI, she was going to get nailed big time, but she was alive, which is all I cared about.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) When a CEO, I had multiple AED's put into every manufacturing plant.
2) We had MANY people on each shift trained to operate them.
3) We even gave general instructions in plant-wide meetings.
4) This way, ANYONE could use them in an emergency.
5) The lack of training money is a poor excuse for letting people die.

NOTE: This is not to say that any of the Disney heart-attack victums could have been saved. It just means it might have been worth a try.

 

[BlindTyldak]

Just a heads-up:- Last time when I did my Advanced Paediatric Life Support (APLS) course we were told blind-mouth-sweeping was inadvisable because you can push an object deeper. I believe that you should look and if the object is clearly seen, carefully attempt removal. Of course, if this girl was witnessed to have choked on gum then you follow the "choking" algorithm. I will check with my colleague who is an APLS/ALS/ATLS trainer and senior ER doctor.

oooh, good point, please send me a PM when you find out. It's been about three years since my last training!