Autism - what do you think?

[Toby'sFriend]

I really don't get all the fighting over Autism. I guess that it is just a human need to want to have someone or something to blame. At this point, I'm not willing to discount any theory.

I don't think they are ever going to find one single definitive cause for the disorder. Autism is a description of a set of behaviors and I think it is more than possible for one child to have gotten to that point by a reaction to the vaccinatons or other environmental factor and another child to be there simply because of the structure of his brain.

I also think that all the people who think there really isn't a "rise" in the condition really aren't looking very hard. These kids are EVERYWHERE. The schools are being overwhelmed and they aren't simply kids that would have been "slow and off" in the past.

 

[barkley]

I recognize your concern and I agree that the potential for misdiagnosis is there, but actually getting an autism diagnosis requires meeting specific criteria. Please don't take offense, but spending twenty minutes in a waiting room with someone who seems "normal" doesn't mean a thing. I am sure you didn't get the full story from his mother and, besides, she knows him. A good neurologist isn't going to throw out a diagnosis just to please a parent. This is what I meant about the Oprah Winfrey Show reinforcing stereotypes about children. Clearly he wasn't flapping his arms or spinning in circles, so he must be normal. If you were to observe my child for twenty minutes she would "appear" normal, too. Until she reached her limit and needed some sensory input and threw herself on the floor so she could "feel". Or until she repeated herself for the tenth time in two minutes or answered a question with an unrelated fact. Or until she reached out to touch your face and pet you. It is truly a "spectrum" of abilities/disabilities and the more kids who have their needs met the better we will function as a society.

i appreciate and agree with you-but this mom just reminded me far too much of some cases i worked with in social service wherein it was proven that the parents had literaly 'shopped' for the diagnosis that they wanted for their child (in some cases going to barely legit doctors who basicly would do any diagnosis to keep the parent happy and paying cash for the appointments)-i found it unsettling when she commented that while she liked the neurologist her son was seeing today she did'nt use him for the autism because he was 'just like all the other ones we went to who said my soon did'nt meet the criteria for an autism diagnosis' so she only used him for certain issues but 'the one that finaly agreed with MY diagnosis of my son' for all the austism issues, and sometimes a 3rd with another practice for other diagnosis 'the other 2 don't agree with'. unfortunatly due to a delay in being seen( we sat with this woman and her son for about an hour and a half) i had to learn way more about this child's situation than i was comfortable with.

 

[froglady]

If immunizations cause autism, then why don't virtually all children who have received an immunization have autism?

After a few minutes of googling, I came up with a World Health Organization statistic that 90% of children in the Americas (North and South) have been immunized. Do 90% of children have autism?

I could say that my three children have all been immunized, and none of them like to brush their teeth. Does that mean that vaccinations cause some aversion to tooth brushing?

Correlation does not equal causation.

There is a difference between likely and definitely. That's like saying my grandmother smoked a pack a day for 60 years and never got lung cancer, so there is no relationship between smoking and lung cancer.

However, I'm not convinced that even "likely" has been proven in this case.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I didn't read all the fighting I assume is going on, just the OP and the first few posts.

I'm one of those people who has had the same best friend since she was a little kid. I often refer to her as my sister to simplify things, because except for Dad, I'm closer to her than any family member.

Her son is mildly autistic. He doesn't really connect with the world at all, though he can read maps well (but would never make the connection to "turn right" at the next street) and enjoys shows about big fish like whales and dolphins. He'll knows my name and talks to me, but if I dropped dead, he'd never wonder where I went, you know? He doesn't love me. He'd never think to call me if there were some emergency - he'd never think to call anyone. His mind just doesn't work that way. His dad has gone on deployments since he was a baby - he's never missed him. He's just like that. That's how he is.

His sister loved and protected him until she hit 11 or 12. Then she was embarrassed by him for several years and would ask that he be locked in his room when her friends came over. She's almost 18 now and back to loving and protecting him.

There has to be some reason for these autistic kids. I don't know what it is. They keep swearing it isn't the immunizations, but I just don't know. I'm waiting for another answer before I 100% buy that it isn't the shots. Still and all, better to have a few autistic kids than rampant polio or whatever. That's how I see it.

And I also believe that a lot of kids are being diagnosed with "autistic spectrum" things, like Aspberger's, when there is really nothing wrong with them at all. Kind of like ADD, then ADHD. Now the big fad is to have an "autistic spectrum" kid. Everyone with a kid who isn't perfect wants a label for it, and too many doctors are only too happy to give them one. That's my opinion, anyway.

 

[minkydog]

I too think it is better diagnosis then an actual increase in cases of autism. I look back at some kids I went to school with that would probably be classified as mildly autistic now but were just considered 'slow' when we were in school. Same thing with the 'rise' in cases of ADD, I think more kids are just being diagnosed with it vs there actually being more kids with it. These kids were just 'active' before and now they are ADD/ADHD.

I have read that in the past most children who were considered mentally ******** would now be diagnosed on the autism spectrum. If you look into the trends over the last 50 years it seems to prove this theory. As the diagnosis of autism has grown, the diagnosis of mild-moderate mental retardation has shrunk. But the totals haven't really changed much.

As far as ADHD, I completely agree with you. Back in my day, kids with ADHD were just "bad" or "spacey" or "not cut out for school". They were allowed to quit at an early age and move into the work world where a lot of them were very successful.

I won't go into the whole argument that vaccines are the cause of autism because I don't believe it is true. There have been many, many studies disproving any link between vaccines and autism. I do find evidence of ADHD & autism running in families. In my own family we have several people(5 cousins, 3 uncles, 3 aunts, 2Grandparents) who would fall on the ADHD/autism spectrum, including my two sons. DS20 has severe ADHD, did terribly in school and only graduated by the skin of his teeth. He has been quite successful in sales and is a more prolific writer now than he ever was in school. DS11 is severely mentally ******** and autistic due to a chromosome disorder. He will never live unsupervised. Both my DH and I also have ADHD & learning disabilities, but we have both been very successful in our areas of strength--DH is a math whiz and I am a nurse (but please don't ask me to do any math!) We also have a DD13 who is completely average in every way. All of us are immunized.

 

[isyne4u]

I'm the mom of a newly diagnosed High functioning autsitic child and I have to say that i was disappointed in Oprah too for only showing the most severe children.

As for diagnosis...it took me over two years to finally get someone to pay attention to his symptoms. I had a developmental pediatrician tell me that I just need to parent him better. Finally someone listened to my concerns and referred him to a psychologist who tested him.

I don't know about vaccines. both of my boys had their vaccines and only one is on the spectrum (at this point anyway!!). currently I blame his father's side of the family!

Funny, Tara!

I just wanted everyone to know that April is Autism Awareness Month (thanks Tara!) and although Autism does not directly affect my family, it does affect people I care about and I think we can all be more aware and do something to help.

We aren't together (no relation to DX!) so I an say that!!

As for parents shopping for a diagnosis...I guess maybe I would be considered a shopper. I knew something was wrong with him and I felt like it was Autism so I took him to a speech/language therapist for testing, I took him to an OT/PT who diagnosed him with Sensory Integration Disorder, I took him to the ENT, I took him to an allergist, I took him to counseling, I took him to a pediatric developmental pediatrician, and all the signs were there but no one would put them together.

He was diagnosed with ADHD at 4 yo but I knew that he wasn't "right". And to outsiders he was a kid that through massive tantrums (bad parenting), he barked and growled at people he didn't know (he never learned any manners), he hid under tables (he's immature), he rode (still does) in the stroller with the seatbelt on and the sun cover over him (I'm lazy and not making him read), he has a limited diet (I never made him eat other foods)...I lived with 4 years of guilt over his behaviors and blaming myself for all of his issues.

Finally, the nurse practioner at the developmental pediatrician's office listened to me when I said he was running away, cutting himself/things, severe anxieties about everyday things...that's when she has me do a screening for possible autism spectrum disorders. After scoring very high on that she sent us to a psychologist.

Even after the diagnosis that I knew was correct I had terrible feelings of guilt for having him diagnosed. Maybe I had pushed too hard, maybe the doc was wrong, but after talking to people who live HFA and AS I knew I had done the right thing and I knew his dx was correct.

Life hasn't changed much..but now I have an idea of how to raise him!

sorry...didn't mean to be so long winded!!

 

[katerkat]

I have a close friend with a child that has Autism. She says that she noticed her child was off as a baby and that she really doesn't believe it is the vaccinations.

I delayed some of Russ's vaccinations because I was worried, but all of his weird stuff developed unrelated to vaccination timing. So even though I *did* delay, I don't think vaccination caused his...weirdness. (He's NOT autistic and I sincerely doubt he's on any spectrum, but he's got some funny traits. But coming from two weird parents, what did we really expect? )

 

[isyne4u]

And I also believe that a lot of kids are being diagnosed with "autistic spectrum" things, like Aspberger's, when there is really nothing wrong with them at all. Kind of like ADD, then ADHD. Now the big fad is to have an "autistic spectrum" kid. Everyone with a kid who isn't perfect wants a label for it, and too many doctors are only too happy to give them one. That's my opinion, anyway.

I'm sorry I don't think it is fashionable to have a child with a cognitive disability!! I would much rather have my child be a normal bratty kid rather than autistic!

Next time he melts down in public and people look at me funny, I'll just tell them that Autism is the new fad we're showing it off!!!

 

[auntpolly]

You know, I think it a little bit of an overreaction to assume there is a "fight" going on here. I've seen fights here on the DIS - this is a discussion. We can all express our thoughts without a fight - although there are those on the DIS that try to make everything a fight.

I meant no disrespect. But I feel that discussion is never useless.

 

[minkydog]

I delayed some of Russ's vaccinations because I was worried, but all of his weird stuff developed unrelated to vaccination timing. So even though I *did* delay, I don't think vaccination caused his...weirdness. (He's NOT autistic and I sincerely doubt he's on any spectrum, but he's got some funny traits. But coming from two weird parents, what did we really expect? )

We delayed immunizations in two of our kids also. DS20 was high-strung and "weird" from the start. He was always a double-handful--vaccines had nothing to do with it. DD13 didn't get vaccines until she was almost 11yo(when she entered school--my kids were homeschooled). She has always been totally middle-of-the-road normal.

 

[golfgal]

If immunizations cause autism, then why don't virtually all children who have received an immunization have autism?

After a few minutes of googling, I came up with a World Health Organization statistic that 90% of children in the Americas (North and South) have been immunized. Do 90% of children have autism?

I could say that my three children have all been immunized, and none of them like to brush their teeth. Does that mean that vaccinations cause some aversion to tooth brushing?
Correlation does not equal causation.

Is THAT why DS14 doesn't brush his teeth? Here all along I thought it was because he was lazy? Humm, now I have a reason for my kid not brushing his teeth and that means I am a good parent again, right?

 

[snowball22]

The following is just my opinion:


With the high rate of autistic children of late, I do believe it is related to vaccines. Vaccines are a blanketed policy. If you have done any reading on vaccine injuries, you will be shocked at the high numbers. Vaccines are money makers for the big corporations in the drug industry. As with any corporation in the business of making money, injury to people is not a concern to them.

Vaccines should NOT be given to everyone. Anyone with allergies to certain items or whose families have a a tendency towards auto immune diseases, which autism is suspected of being, should NOT be given the vaccine.

But let me ask you this, before a vaccine was given to you or anyone in your family, did your doctor even ask if you had allergies or auto immune tendencies in your family? Most people would answer "no" to this question as most patients don't know their family histories of disease or have been tested for allergies. The doc whips out a sheet of disclose(if he remembers) for you to sign and then proceeds with the vaccine.

I do believe the principal idea of a vaccine is a good one but that much more testing should be done on the delivery solution of the vaccine(wheat or mercury based), and the vaccine should become individualized based on the person's genetic make up.

 

[auntpolly]

The only thing that could possibly make this a fight is if people start poking fun of other people's opinions. But I'm sure that won't happen because we are all adults here.

 

[barkley]

my prediction for a future 'boom' in diagnosis-'post polio syndrome'. reason i say this is a family member had polio as a child, recovered but was recently diagnosed with this. apparantly as the polio kids are aging they are finding that the normal aging process coupled with arthritis is flaring up in the same areas affected by their polio.

i think the environmental factor needs to be explored more in autism-it just seems logical. it took decades of research, but even with polio it was found that environmental circumstances and habits played a large part in the spread of the disease as well as the likelyhood of being affected after exposure.

 

[seven dwarfs]

I am thankful for shows like this one. I will admit I have, way in my younger years, thought to myself about others with SAP at Disney. What is wrong I do not see anything wrong with them. Or I have also seen bad behavior with kids and been like I would not have that in my house. After having children of my own I begain to understand first hand. I have a son who was overdosed on Meds at 2months old. It's a long story but the short of it he still does therapy twice a week and he is seven. He has yet to have an official diagnosis except sensory intergration disorder. He is a high functioning 'Autistic'. He is an awesome child. He has melt downs, can become violent, has a hard time knowing what words mean. To see him you would not know anything was wrong. He talks and walks and plays.

I was uneducated before and it caused me to be judgemental. Most disorders I knew about you could see with your eyes the problems. If anything my sons life has taught me to never question anyone because you just don't know. I feel like shows like this can help others, uneducated like I was in the past, see what is really out there. I know that going to therapy twice a week with him allows me to see all kinds of things. It is heartbreaking and encouraging all in one.

I am not sure why the rate of autism is so high. Is something causing it or is it because we are more educated in detecting it. I only hope one day all the answers will be there.

 

[Aidensmom]

My uncle was severely autistic (I say was because he died in a state mental hospital at the age of 35, about 20 years ago, a whole other story). There is a huge difference in the way autism was looked at, diagnosed, and treated at the time my uncle was a child and the way it is now. I think the increase is mainly due to the fact that there are more people on the milder end of the spectrum that receive a diagnosis than there used to be.

Vaccinations could be a trigger in some people, there are lots of effects of all kinds of medications and vaccinations that only a small amount of people experience, but it would be far from being the only trigger and not overwhelming such a cause to me that it would prevent me from vaccinating my child, just as I don't refuse antibiotics or other medications for my child because of the potential adverse affects they may have on a small percentage of people. To some, however, their evaluation of risk may differ.

 

[debster812]

Now the big fad is to have an "autistic spectrum" kid. Everyone with a kid who isn't perfect wants a label for it, and too many doctors are only too happy to give them one. That's my opinion, anyway.

I think that's a pretty insensitive thing to say, especially since there are parents of kids on the Autism Spectrum, posting on this VERY thread. Do you think for one minute, they would not trade their 'trendy' kid, for one who is nuero-typical?

 

[golfgal]

I'm sorry I don't think it is fashionable to have a child with a cognitive disability!! I would much rather have my child be a normal bratty kid rather than autistic!

Next time he melts down in public and people look at me funny, I'll just tell them that Autism is the new fad we're showing it off!!!

Tara, there is some truth to the fad of having a kid with a 'diagnosis' of some sort though. It is really, really sad the number of parents that want a diagnosis for their child so they can blame the diagnosis instead their parenting style or their kid's personality. There is a deep need these days to appear to be the perfect parent with the perfect child and if your child isn't perfect there has to be a reason besides he is just not. I see this attitude constantly and when then happens is that the kids that really DO need help can't get it because the system is full of kids that don't really need the help.

We have some good friends that are a perfect example of this. Their daughter has an ADHD diagnosis--got it in 3rd grade. She isn't ADHD in the slightest, what she is is the product of lazy parents that would let her stay up until midnight or later on a school night and she couldn't concentrate at school--well, DUH. Everytime she did something out of what they considered 'normal' they said the same thing, "well, she has ADHD". She is now a freshman in high school and really isn't expected to do anything because she is ADHD. It is really, really sad that this is how society is heading.

I am sure if we found the right doctor and pushed hard enough we could get a 'diagnosis' for DS14 but when it comes down to it, his issues at school are of his own doing and having a diagnosis isn't going to help him want to do better in school. In social studies class right now, he has an F on the homework part of his grade but has aced every test they have taken for the year--that isn't ADHD, Autism, Aspergers, etc. it is a kid that doesn't want to do or turn in homework.

 

[TurboKitty]

I didn't see the Oprah show yesterday. I don't think I missed much though.

My 9 year-old daughter is autistic. She has no verbal language. She's not yet continent. She often displays odd mannerism, like toe-walking, hand-flapping, and grimacing. She's loud. She can be self-abusive when she's frustrated.

She's also a 9 year-old girl. She's sweet and loves hugs and tickles. She has a goofy sense of humor, likes to run ahead and hold doors closed behind her. She likes to wear sparkly clothes or anything pink. She's learning the joys of turn taking and social interaction. She loves to draw and color. She uses sign and her own very expressive way to communicate with the world around her. She's sometimes too independent.

One of my cousins, from my paternal side, younger son is also autistic. Luke talks though. I do think there's a genetic link. However, my daughter's father and Luke's father were not older men. DH was 31 and Ryan is younger than that. The only link between the two of them I can think of off the top of my head, is that they were both are in the military and went to the middle east.

As a baby, Katie was different than her brother. Mostly, because they weren't the same person. Katie said and used a lot of words, right up until she turned 18 to 24 months and she started losing her words. She was also cranky all the time until her last tooth finished teething then, she became a little ray of sunshine! We had her hearing tested, we were told she was "a late talker". We moved to Missouri when she was 3, and at the ped appt for her brother, the new doc sent us to a ped nuerologist who diagnosed her with autism. We fought with the school district for 2 years to get her into preschool and the ABA services she's entitled to. I learned to speak right up and be an advocate for her.

Yes, I am personally affected by autism and I will be until the day I die. I don't that drug companies have best interests in mind over their bottom lines.

I won't wish for her to be a normal bratty kid, but that's who she is and no amount of wishing is gonna change that. My greatest wish is to just once here my little girl say the words, "I love you, Mom." I'd trade every label, fad and trend in the world for that.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

i think the environmental factor needs to be explored more in autism-it just seems logical.

I agree. I think it is far more complicated than just Factor X resulted in Y.

I think that when it is all said and done, they are going to find that it is a host of things including genetic predisposition, environmental factors, the vaccinations, and probably things that haven't even come to light yet.
I'm not a scientist and I'm not a Doctor, so I don't know.

And as far as "diagnosis shopping" nearly every parent I know who does that is doing it so that they can get the schools and health insurace companies to agree to provide needed therapies for their kids. You have to get that "Significant Developmental Delay" box on the IEP form checked before you can get Occupational Therapy..... etc etc etc

They aren't doing it just to be trendy. As a mother of two IEP kids, it kind of bothers me to see others throwing that out there. My kids have very real issues that majorly affect their lives and our families lives. I don't enjoy IEP meetings, I don't enjoy Doctors visits, I don't enjoy 2 hours a week at the Speech Therapist -- I don't enjoy any of it and I'd give anything not to have to go through it.