Attendance at Universal declines becasue of WDW's recent marketing

[MJMcBride]

I don't think there's any doubt that Disney has had its share of "clunkers" of attractions in recent years. Just whats occurred with the old Mission to Mars buidling is testament to that. We could go on and on about what new attractions suck and which hit the mark. I think more hit the mark than some of the other people on this thread like YoHo, DancingBear, AnotherVoice and others I've had this argument with before. But I agree with them that since the 1990s imagineering has not quite been as good. But hey I love a lot of the new rides and shows.

Anyway, I think DISers being such disney fans can be hypercritical of the company and yearn for the old days, or can't take off their rose colored glasses. Which side are you on?

 

[Sylvester McBean]

UO should just continue to follow Disney lead. raise our AP renewals to $325 each instead of $99. kill all AP discounts except the resort rooms, but divide all existing resort rooms in half. then you've doubled your room capacity and can overcharge for the same cracker boxes as on WDW property. those pesky dining discounts we've removed from the AP holders? charge them extra each year as a 'dining plan'. refillable mug program in the parks, gone. merchandise discounts, gone. what attractions are doing well out in US hollywood, we're having a hard time coming up with new, good attractions on the east coast. revenge of the mummy? we've got one here... but it'll fit perfect inside of the spiderman building's footprint? make it happen, the crowds at IOA will love it, they always love everything we do. JPRA is getting expensive to maintain? well, bulldoze it and put up a winnie the pooh playground. we don't own the rights to pooh? well, pick one of our movies we continue to remake because we're running out of original ideas without Pixar. oh crap, we don't own Pixar? put up a gift shop, there's never enough of those. and make the exit of the gift shop funnel through another gift shop, we're brilliant!

a rant, but still my opinion. WDW just doesn't seem interested in guest satisfaction anymore in the parks, they've got a captive audience. we keep our AP's, but the 'magic' is waning. my daughter picked Busch Gardens over WDW on Sunday. that's a little disheartening when it comes to 12 year old.

 

[Foladar]

My position (and I stand by it) is that if you felt the magic of WDW in the 1970's, then you will fill the magic of WDW in 2006. The only way you won't is if you go into it looking to pick apart, criticize, and bash.

You do realize alot changes between 1970s and 2006? That's a good 30 years right there .. things change.


Edit: After reading the post above, does Disney offer a refillable cup in the parks in which you can get water free? Summer time is hot, I plan to visit both parks, but I usually just visit Universal and I know they allow you to buy the refillable cup and get water every time.

 

[patsal]

You do realize alot changes between 1970s and 2006? That's a good 30 years right there .. things change.


Edit: After reading the post above, does Disney offer a refillable cup in the parks in which you can get water free? Summer time is hot, I plan to visit both parks, but I usually just visit Universal and I know they allow you to buy the refillable cup and get water every time.

Disney will give you free cups of ice water--tap not bottled.

 

[peter11435]

You do realize alot changes between 1970s and 2006? That's a good 30 years right there .. things change.

Your 100% right. Times do change. But that is why the WDW experience has changed over the years. It may be different but it is no less magical. Except to those who can't accept change of any kind.

 

[Another Voice]

It may be different but it is no less magical. Except to those who can't accept change of any kind.

When was your first trip to WDW? When was your first trip to Disneyland?

It's been my experience that the only people who describe the world in absolute terms ("no less magical") tend to be people who are ignorant of it.

 

[peter11435]

When was your first trip to WDW? When was your first trip to Disneyland?

It's been my experience that the only people who describe the world in absolute terms ("no less magical") tend to be people who are ignorant of it.

So essentially what you are saying is that if I don't share your opinion that WDW has gone down hill and lost its magic then I am ignorant.

 

[Another Voice]

You are the one comparing the two periods - what was your experience like in 1971? What was your experience in 1982? What was your experience in 1989? What was your experience in 1996? What was your experience in 2001?

You are the one making the blanket statement that today is better/no worse than yesterday.

How to make that judgement? What is your reference? What do you base your claim on?

Anything - just tell us.

 

[Sarangel]

I said on page 3 that we should avoid turning this into a "yes it is," "no it isn't" type of discussion, and we're bordering perilously close to that at the moment. Please play nice with your fellow posters, debate the point but not the poster. No name calling. Make your point, cite your references and then let others make their points. Debate & Rebuttal - just like in High School.

Sarangel

 

[peter11435]

How to make that judgement? What is your reference? What do you base your claim on?

I have already answered all of those questions.

 

[Barbers2005]

Wow, maybe we should just bulldoze WDW. Many of you act like this would be a better option then having things continue the way they are. I think that it is very amusing that a lot of the people that constantly bash WDW are the same people that are at the park every weekend. If you prefer US, great you’re entitled to your opinion. If you have some things you don’t like about Disney, then you’re also entitled to that opionoin. But people that do nothing but criticize the park and then spend every opportunity visiting it, are hypocrites in my opinion.

I do not claim to be an expert on the subject, but I do know that a lot of kids/adults still find WDW to be a very magical place. Since I doubt a scientific tool will ever be created to measure “Magic” (even if one was created we would need a time machine to compare samples from the 70’s), we will have to go by personal opinion. I personal think that if WDW has lost any of its “Magic”, it’s hardly noticeable.

 

[YoHo]

I have already answered all of those questions.

No, you really haven't.

If I may make an on topic but somewhat personal observation, Peter, I've found you to be very irrational in your opinions when it comes to someone finding fault with modern Disney. Whenever we get into this type of discussion, you end up sounding JUST LIKE THIS!!!:

I don't understand at all your seemingly pathological need to refute those of us that are unhappy with the direction the parks have taken. It's one thing to disagree. It's another to be so offended by another viewpoint that you seem to get angry about it.

 

[YoHo]

Wow, maybe we should just bulldoze WDW. Many of you act like this would be a better option then having things continue the way they are. I think that it is very amusing that a lot of the people that constantly bash WDW are the same people that are at the park every weekend. If you prefer US, great you’re entitled to your opinion. If you have some things you don’t like about Disney, then you’re also entitled to that opionoin. But people that do nothing but criticize the park and then spend every opportunity visiting it, are hypocrites in my opinion.

Now see, this offends me and it's been answered so many times on this board that it's ridiculous.

Nobody thinks it would be better to Bulldoze WDW. Although I sometimes wonder if it would be better to bulldoze DCA. We do not live in aworld of absolutes and just because I would prefer Disney not continue down it's current path doesn't mean I want it gone forever. This drives me nuts. I want Disney to return to what it was.
And further, the reason I go to Disneyland and world so regularly is to remember the faded glory of once was. To go on Pirates and Haunted mansion. To walk into the mainstreet magic shop, to see the castle and ride the teacups. The company hasn't destroyed everything and I'll be D@#mned if I'm going to stop enjoying what remains of that because of some idiots in Burbank. Heck, I even find some fun in the new rides. THAT doesn't mean I don't want and expect better.

Tell me, when you have a favorite resturant that has excellent food and you go there all the time. Then one day you order something new that you've never tried and you hate it, do you stop going to the resturant forever? Or do you just not order the offending dish?
It's the same thing. I'm not hipocritical for enjoying The magic of Disney but hating the foolishness of Eisner. That's ridiculous.

 

[All Aboard]

Peter, the one question you most certainly haven't answered (and it's been posed by at least me and Another Voice) is "what was the first year of your first hand experience in a Disney theme park?" Don't you agree that if one is making an iron clad statement such as:

the WDW experience has changed over the years. It may be different but it is no less magical.

the statement may have some validity if the person making it actual experienced the "WDW experience" during the periods that he or she is referencing?

And, just for my sake, Peter - do you see the stark difference between each of these three statements?:

A. In my opinion, the WDW experience is just as magical as it ever was.

B. The WDW experience is just as magical as it ever was.

C. It may be different but it is no less magical. Except to those who can't accept change of any kind.

 

[pedro2112]

I think the problem is there is no operational definition of the word "magical" in this discussion. I've been to WDW in the 70s 80s 90s and this decade, and frankly I find myself enjoying my trips more than before. However, I concur that there are many things about Disney during the last decade that are troublesome. On the negative side, I' not too happy with disney getting rid of toad and putting in the pooh ride, or the sillyness that has occured in the WOL pavillion over the last few years. I"m also certain that the "friendliness" of the CMs has decreased somewhat, although that is more of a societal function than a disney function. Furthermore, turning in the main street shops into a generic WOD was disheartening.

On the positive side, there is so much more to do, and most of it is great. I can't comment on AK as we haven't been there yet, but my wife and I love MGM (yes, even with the silly hat), DTD, Epcot, MK, the resorts etc. We also love some of the newer attractions (Mickey's Philharmagic, Mission Space).

I guess my opinion on the matter is that while I do enjoy WDW more now than I did before (and also think that it is "better" now), I always wonder how much better it could be if certain people high up in the origanization didn't make the decions they did over the last 10 to 15 years.

 

[Barbers2005]

Now see, this offends me and it's been answered so many times on this board that it's ridiculous.

Tell me, when you have a favorite resturant that has excellent food and you go there all the time. Then one day you order something new that you've never tried and you hate it, do you stop going to the resturant forever? Or do you just not order the offending dish?
It's the same thing. I'm not hipocritical for enjoying The magic of Disney but hating the foolishness of Eisner. That's ridiculous.

True, but if the restaurant is my favorite I have more good things then bad things to say about it.

I have probably read at least 50 of your posts in the last month and would have to estimate that 49 were of a negative nature. Again, you’re entitled to your opinion, but if we are going by what you have posted I would guess you dislike WDW. You seem very bitter about Disney and I think it's sad. I'm sure at one point you loved Disney and it probably brought you a lot of happiness. I would love to see a post were you had something positive to say.

 

[peter11435]

It's one thing to disagree. It's another to be so offended by another viewpoint that you seem to get angry about it.

Im not affended or amgered by your opinions. I simply disagree with you (and many others on this board) who essentially tell all of those who disagree with them that they are wrong.

 

[Barbers2005]

YoHo, to go back to your Restaurant analogy, imagine you’re a food critic. You write an article and you say:

Food Critic: “This restaurant is getting cheap. The atmosphere is not as good as it used to be and the food tastes like it came from a box. The breadsticks were OK, and I thought the steak was dry”.

Reader: “Wow, I guess you don’t like that restaurant”.

Food Critic: “Now, I’m offended. I love this restaurant. How could you say such a thing.”

 

[2Xited4Disney]

I have noticed many disbutes on these (this) board arise because of lack of citation. Many times when a disbute occurs I am not on YoHos or Another Voices side, but 95% of the time they sway me by their posts. They give specific examples, cite magazines, show examples from the orlando sentinel, pull out numbers from 1993. If you two aren't involved in Politics you really should be. Honestly you deffinatley have a way of words, hell I'd vote for you.


Peter, make me believe that the magic hasn't changed since 71.... give me some examples, honestly I would LOVE to believe it but I just can't with the evidence I have been shown (in this post and on MANY others)

 

[peter11435]

Peter, the one question you most certainly haven't answered (and it's been posed by at least me and Another Voice) is "what was the first year of your first hand experience in a Disney theme park?" Don't you agree that if one is making an iron clad statement such as:

I have visited WDW (but not Disneyland) during every time period I have referenced.

A. In my opinion, the WDW experience is just as magical as it ever was.

B. The WDW experience is just as magical as it ever was.

C. It may be different but it is no less magical. Except to those who can't accept change of any kind.

They’re really not all that different when you look at them in context. A and B are essentially the exact same. Sure one starts with "In my opinion" but it goes with out saying that this topic is entirely based on opinion. As another poster already pointed out there is no was to scientifically measure "magic" thus any discussion of the subject is obviously based on opinion. Prefacing my statement with IMO is unneeded.

As for C that was in reference to the fact that people and there tastes change. Similarly WDW itself is forced to change. When I said WDW is different I simply meant that the source of magic had to be altered but that doesn't make it any less.