Attack of the Lakeshore Lodge

[BrianLo]

Edit: after sleuthing addresses for the Imagineering permit appear more in line with reflections.

https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...eflectionsa-disney-lakeside-lodge-project.htm


In what is proving to be an unexpected twist, permitting is getting much more suggestive of more Wilderness Lodge hotel room conversions along with more overt permitting for new cabins.

Wilderness lodge occupancy must be quite poor.


https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...filed-for-disneys-wilderness-lodge-resort.htm

https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...-potential-new-disney-vacation-club-units.htm

 

[BrianLo]

I take it back that it's not the addresses for more water facing cabins. It's more south of BRV.

All eyes on D23 I guess.

 

[crvetter]

Couldn’t this just all be related to the announced and expected refurbishment? I wouldn’t be shocked if this is for staging of material and maybe possibly to readd the walking path.

I feel it’s unlikely more conversions out cabins given the amount of points they have to sell.

 

[BrianLo]

Couldn’t this just all be related to the announced and expected refurbishment? I wouldn’t be shocked if this is for staging of material and maybe possibly to readd the walking path.

I feel it’s unlikely more conversions out cabins given the amount of points they have to sell.

The first permit stood out a bit because the length of the permits were quite odd. If they were a standard 12 months it would make sense to merely be CCV soft refurbs. But with a strange atypical filing length.

The second permit just released today is a lot more egregious, because WDI is who files new builds, not FAM. Again it has an unusually protracted permitting length.

Dan who follows permits voraciously on WDWmagic for over a decade is reliable for when something is at extreme odds in the sea of permits he wades through. He actually was the first person to identify the Skyliner project based on permitting.



See Tom Bricker's article from earlier today. The notable thing to add to his article is we've since received a new permit out of WDI after he published it. Which he basically concludes this seems major, but isn't a DVC without an Imagineering permit... low and behold we have 18 new addresses permitted by Imagineering this afternoon.

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/n...truction-project-lasting-until-december-2026/

 

[Chili327]

I take it back that it's not the addresses for more water facing cabins. It's more south of BRV.

All eyes on D23 I guess.

Isn’t there rumors of a new resort between WL and CFW?

 

[BrianLo]

Isn’t there rumors of a new resort between WL and CFW?

Reflections has a much different address. These addresses are all well West of the Eastern most Cabin.

I'm kind of surmising they have finally passed on the Reflections project, since WDW is having occupancy issues and Reflections or its offspring was meant to add new cash hotel rooms.

A CCV2 could remove inventory from Wilderness lodge, by comparison. Similar to VGF2. While also fitting in a roughly similar niche to Reflections. It really wasn't exactly what I was guessing... but they seem to be in a pattern of adding new phases sequentially sold out >40y resorts.

If I'm getting three steps ahead of myself - then a RIV2 will eliminate Aruba in a few more years.

 

[Chili327]

I’m not familiar with reflections or where it was supposed to be, but I think these are new rumors of something that goes between the 2 resorts. Sounds like reflections was going to be further from WL? (not closer)
I forget where I heard it, maybe it was DVC Fan?

 

[crvetter]

The first permit stood out a bit because the length of the permits were quite odd. If they were a standard 12 months it would make sense to merely be CCV soft refurbs. But with a strange atypical filing length.

The second permit just released today is a lot more egregious, because WDI is who files new builds, not FAM. Again it has an unusually protracted permitting length.

Dan who follows permits voraciously on WDWmagic for over a decade is reliable for when something is at extreme odds in the sea of permits he wades through. He actually was the first person to identify the Skyliner project based on permitting.



See Tom Bricker's article from earlier today. The notable thing to add to his article is we've since received a new permit out of WDI after he published it. Which he basically concludes this seems major, but isn't a DVC without an Imagineering permit... low and behold we have 18 new addresses permitted by Imagineering this afternoon.

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/n...truction-project-lasting-until-december-2026/

It will be interesting to see. If they convert hotel rooms to CCV that would essentially make WL a pure DVC resort, I can’t see leaving any cash rooms there.

As for the lobby refurbishment that was suggested in the article seems like it could have some teeth. However, 2018 or 2019 they replaced all the furniture, carpet, and refinished the floor if I recall correctly. Design wise the lobby doesn’t seem in need of a refresh. I could see maybe some sort of structural issues maybe that need repairs.

I guess the Imagineering permit is the interesting one but I suppose that could be the path if they plan on theming it at all. Could also help with the cabins if the path is themed to an attraction and connect FW and WL more closely.

 

[BrianLo]

I’m not familiar with reflections or where it was supposed to be, but I think these are new rumors of something that goes between the 2 resorts. Sounds like reflections was going to be further from WL? (not closer)
I forget where I heard it, maybe it was DVC Fan?

See my green blob for where the permits are filed for versus the plot of land for ‘reflections’ or whatever the reimagined new resort was supposed to be in the old River Country.

They are pretty far away.

 

[tjkraz]

In what is proving to be an unexpected twist, permitting is getting much more suggestive of more Wilderness Lodge hotel room conversions along with more overt permitting for new cabins.

Wilderness lodge occupancy must be quite poor.


https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...filed-for-disneys-wilderness-lodge-resort.htm

https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...-potential-new-disney-vacation-club-units.htm

I don’t see anything in either story that suggests more hotel room conversions. The first link could be the Copper Creek refurbishment which DVC already confirmed will be completed by 2025. (EDIT: They didn’t actually say completed in 2025. Most refurbs span 2 calendar years, and there were no specifics about whether it would begin or end in ‘25.)

And the second link seems to point to a series of new construction projects, which may or may not be hotel rooms / villas.

 

[BrianLo]

I don’t see anything in either story that suggests more hotel room conversions. The first link could be the Copper Creek refurbishment which DVC already confirmed will be completed by 2025.

Which is why the Dec 2026 extension is atypical, but not a story in and of itself.

And the second link seems to point to a series of new construction projects, which may or may not be hotel rooms / villas.

Correct, a series of new construction projects at WL. Hence speculative in the thread title. Maybe they'll be really nice and build me a lazy river with a swim up bar instead, since they took so long to close my contracts. But I'm setting my expectations accordingly low.

 

[Chili327]

See my green blob for where the permits are filed for versus the plot of land for ‘reflections’ or whatever the reimagined new resort was supposed to be in the old River Country.

They are pretty far away.

View attachment 881905

Hmm, yea I was thinking it was more centered between the two (probably closer to lakeside too). This seems more like BRV expansion or something.

I don’t see anything in either story that suggests more hotel room conversions. The first link could be the Copper Creek refurbishment which DVC already confirmed will be completed by 2025.

And the second link seems to point to a series of new construction projects, which may or may not be hotel rooms / villas.

What else would it or could it be… based on the permit?
More amenities, pool, restaurant, etc?

 

[tjkraz]

Correct, a series of new construction projects at WL. Hence speculative in the thread title.

Title aside, the original post is entirely about converting hotel rooms to DVC. Wilderness Lodge only has about 300 hotel rooms left. I’m skeptical that Disney would pursue an even smaller hotel presence or look at turning it into an all-DVC destination. I suppose it could happen, but there’s zero precedent for such a radical change.

We know that the Copper Creek room refurbishment is happening. Maybe other portions of the resort will be touched. Maybe the hotel rooms will be updated too (a la Grand Floridian.) Maybe sequential updates to 26 cabins will extend the timeline. If the only supporting evidence is a 2026 permit date, I don’t personally view that as “much more suggestive of more Wilderness Lodge hotel room conversions.”

The development of new areas is more intriguing, but it doesn’t really jive with the hypothesis that “Wilderness Lodge occupancy must be quite poor.”

 

[jolynne28]

I read Tom Bricker’s post yesterday, and at the time I thought he was getting a little worked up over nothing. But the new permits are interesting. I’m confused though, aren’t the cabins fairly easy to book, like poly bungalows b/c they’re so point heavy? CCV/BRV are really only difficult to book during the holidays, so I can’t imagine they would build more right now with so many DVC points to sell between other resorts.
I’m biased b/c this is my favorite resort, but I don’t think they would mess with the theming/lobby too much. It’s too fantastic. Nor do I think they would convert it all to DVC. Although I definitely would be thrilled if they added a club level to DVC like AKJ, WL CL is really good IMO.
Most importantly, I selfishly don’t want the eventual news to bump up resale prices, I’ve got my eye on a contract here in the next 6 months or so.

 

[T00dles]

Very interesting. A CCV2 would be inline with their current trend of adding on to newer DVC resorts a la VGF and Poly.

My hope would be for a new building, similar to BRV, which could help balance out the point distribution due to the Cascade Cabins.

 

[Mr_Woodchuck]

as a new CCV owner, should I be worried?

 

[atthebeachclub]

as a new CCV owner, should I be worried?

Sounds like a net positive if anything. I wouldn’t be worried.

 

[davidhr]

Location looks promising, as I don't see them doing anything there that isn't some kind of expansion to the resort. It's too close to the cabins and boulder ridge.

If, and might be a big if, they do any DVC expansion there, they'll get my money on day 1.

 

[tjkraz]

Maybe it’s a skyliner station.

EDIT: Just to be entirely clear…I have ZERO knowledge of a Skyliner coming to Wilderness Lodge and this isn’t intended to start any rumors. But also, if it happens, I’m absolutely taking credit for it.

 

[Chili327]

Maybe it’s a skyliner station.

Anything is possible!!