At what point does clothing become a "costume"?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think the guy is a provocateur. A quick web search brings up pictures of him wearing trousers, yet he decided to wear his kilt to the Busch Gardens Howl-O-Scream event.

The park's policy for that event was clear: "The park does not wish to alienate anyone who wears traditional clothing representing their culture or heritage. However, if the clothing could confuse guests into thinking the wearer is part of the official Howl-O-Scream experience then we will not allow it in the park." Does the kilt fit that description? I don't know, but it is up to the discretion of the park to determine that.

And now he is claiming, "this has left a terrible stain on the honour of my culture as well as my ethnic pride."

Are there employees that wear kilts at Howl-O-Scream?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Considering I was at the Studios today and they allowed adults to go around with Chewbacca fur backpacks, Leia buns, and Rey tops, along with a variety of Disbounders, I think it's going more the full-on costume things: storm trooper gear and Jedi robes around May 4th & 5th, that sort of thing.

The bigger problem is going to be having to explain to the international tourists who live in culture club and WOULD wear what we consider outrageous outfits in daily life that they can't wear their carefully created Minnie/Mickey/Duffy gear.

There is a whole display about the Japanese culture and the "cute" craze. I forget
What it is called. But much of what we see is culturally embedded in that culture. As in--they might wear it at home as everyday dress even though we might consider it "dress up" aka costume.

I think a defined policy is important. While it may not be legally discriminatory, having an unclear policy and inconsistent enforcement would come across as such and be problem for the company and how it is perceived. But up thread, it appears that Disney doesn't have a problem with "themed" dress. So wearing a storm trooper shirt or sporting a Leia bun is fine. Dressing in Leia's robes or as an actual storm trooper would clearly be a costume.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now to get totally off topic...the rule for military uniform wear change all the time. What was OK when that movie was filmed, might not be OK today, but FYI retired military are allowed to wear their uniforms at times. My DH (retired) wore his uniform when my DS got sworn in as a 2LT this past June (my DH was doing the swearing in ceremony).

To return to the subject at hand: military would not wear their uniform in the parks unless they were there for a military event (flag ceremony, etc).

Way back when there was a military training facility in Orlando. I forget what it was called or what it is for. But I very much saw sailors in uniform at Disney. Probably due to that being the extent of their wardrobe while there. Like when sailors are in uniform during Fleet Week in NYC. [Just looked it up and the Orlando location served as a Boot Camp for the Navy--hence sailors wear their uniforms and not civilian dress when visiting the mouse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Training_Center_Orlando Obviously, no boot camp now and not the same situation.]

 

[bc7ate9]

I am an avid DisneyBounder - a local passholder who Bounds almost every time I go - and I definitely agree that I'd like to see a more concrete definition of what they count as a costume. I've never had problems with any of my bounds, even on Dapper Day. Some examples...

While these outfits are inspired by characters, there's no way I'm going to be mistaken for a CM. Now, in the Belle outfit, what if I was brunette instead and looked more like Belle? It's still a dress I bought off the shelf and that I'd wear in everyday life, so which side of the line is that on?

To me, these are not at all costumes. I've made real costumes for these characters
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f243/Lillian_Potter/Mobile Uploads/2015-10-28_21.13.33-1.jpg, http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f243/Lillian_Potter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_59743387610972.jpeg) and I would never dream of wearing them to the park. But regular outfits that match character color schemes? Sure!

There is a line *somewhere*, of course, the question is just where Disney is going to draw it. This, for example, I probably won't wear again now that they're being more stringent about costumes.

While I wasn't questioned at all, it's definitely closer to a costume than any of my others. At the time, I felt it was okay, because I had seen them allowing adults in full princess gowns in, and this was still not going to be mistaken for an actual CM. But I would have fully understood if I was asked to change, because I know this is a lot closer to the line than any of my others. Or maybe I could just ditch the tights and flower so that it's just the cute dress?

How about this one? These are all items off the shelf. Again, would the answer be the same for someone with different colored hair? Would I need to swap the black tank top out for a wide black belt?

Anyway, I'm in several FB groups for DisneyBounders, and no one has reported any issues yet, and I have a couple CM friends who are seeking more guidance, but I don't think there will be an issue with this sort of outfit (except, like I said, perhaps my "Lost Girl" look).

I think they will be focusing on folks like the guy making videos as Peter Pan or the girl I saw taking photos in a full Ella ballgown. That's where their focus *should* be, anyway, and the reason they had the need to reiterate the rule in the first place, not inspired-by looks like these.

Cute outfits!!! I wouldn't consider any of your outfits to be costumes - just character inspired.

 

[I M Fearless]

I can see this causing a real problem: particularly if someone has been allowed in to one park, and subsequently park hops and is then denied access to another park wearing the same clothing.

Unless there is a clear definition of what is and is not allowed the rules will be enforced based on cast members interpretation, which could then vary from one cast member to another, and from park to park.

It is the ambiguity of the rule rather than the rule itself which is likely to cause problems.

 

[ravenclawtrekkie]

You'll literally never see a comprehensive list from Disney saying "this is allowed, this isn't allowed" for the simple reason that it'd be impossible to cover everything and some people live for finding loopholes.

When CMs were trained on this policy, we were shown example photos of "OK" and "not OK" - religious and cultural garb is ok. Disneybounding is ok. Dressing nice for Dapper Day (or on any other day) is ok. Dressing weird/'kawaii'/goth/whatever is ok. Military uniforms are ok. But if you resemble a specific character, person, or thing (or CM outfit - which was part of the problem) to the point where it potentially impacts Disney Show, it's not ok.

 

[Boopuff]

Wasn't there a big dust up a few years ago about some teenager/young adult trying to surprise her boyfriend by dressing up like Tink? She was asked to remove the "costume" and of course the media played up the "boo-hoo-poor-little-girl" thing. Personally, I think if the "outfit" a person is wearing looks way too much like a costumed character or CM then NO you can't wear it. The last thing Disney needs is some family to see "Tink" and Tink says or does something inappropriate and BOOM Disney is slapped with a lawsuit! (remember the Tigger incident?)

 

[Angel Ariel]

EXACTLY what I am saying. Disney HAS to sit down and come up with a clear definition of costume to them, put it in writing, publish it and be prepared to defend it at the gate. It can't be a rule of the day, they must be consistent. These boards alone show that everyone has a different opinion on what costume means to them.

100% fine with no costumes on 14 and older (except at MNSSHP because it's part of the holiday) on normal day BUT Disney has to define "what is a costume." And you gave great examples. I've seen Dappers that could have been part of DHS street entertainment. How do you handle that? Fine line between style choices and what appears to be costumes in a location that all employees are costumed.

This is what I posted on another thread regarding same issue:

---------------------------

THIS is exactly why Disney is going to need to have a serious discussion among themselves to determine "what is a costume?" and make it very clear in writing to avoid issues at the gate.

What you describe as what you are wearing, absolutely in my mind is a costume. We wear shorts and tshirts that have been painted and decorated, so I consider it a costume.

To me - if you, an adult, would not wear it in everyday life (USA since that is where WDW is located) aka work, school, shopping, church, out to dinner and even just hanging around the house ............. then it's a costume. If it's a prom dress, it's a costume. Most photos that people have posted saying they don't consider it a costume, I would.

So now that the general public does not have a uniform view of costume, Disney will have to be very clear as to what they view as a costume.

Perfect example below. Poster feels this is just a style choice. Maybe in another location, but here in the USA that to me is clearly costumes/cosplay. Cosplay = costumes. WAY more costume than my outfit. If costumes are banned on adults, these should be banned.

What about those dresses is a costume? It's more dressed up than I would ever do..I don't wear dresses into the park (save for the one MNSSHP we did)...but I don't see them portraying anything specific..

 

[HopperFan]

What about those dresses is a costume? It's more dressed up than I would ever do..I don't wear dresses into the park (save for the one MNSSHP we did)...but I don't see them portraying anything specific..

To me, they are 100% costumes. They may be shaped like a 5 year old little girl's dress - but the fabric, the accessories and the way they are presented are costumes when worn by a grown woman.

And this is the whole point here - what is a costume to me, is not to you. What is a costume to one CM, is not to the other. You would let them in, I would not.

Disney has said NO COSTUMES. What people are asking is - what is a costume to them? Do they mean a copy of a Disney character or CM? Do they mean clothing that is not standard wear - meaning the guest will stand out among all other guests, potentially confusing other guests? What do they mean?

It really doesn't matter what I think or you think, it only matters what they think since they have the rule.

 

[Hibiscus]

I actually agree with you- Disney does need to clarify where they draw the line. That's probably what the biggest problem here is. Everything at this point is very subjective and that is going to cause strife with the guests.

Although I would like to say that those are not interpretations of Disney characters' costumes- I could probably point out to you what each dress is called and which brand/design house it's from (I have friends who wear the fashion and I just love fashion in general). I'm not trying to convince you that it doesn't look costume-ish because if that's how you feel, well that's how you feel- but I would like to really stress the fact that no matter what they look like, they're not costumes or Disneybounding gone too far. With the exception of the girl on the left who isn't wearing a label, they are real fashion pieces from real designers and real brands.

Not exactly. Let's call a spade a spade. They're EGL brands, not something mainstream like Prada or Dior, and most people at WDW are going to look at that & think it means Egregious & Grievous Lace. They will also think "Alice," & that association is inappropriate for WDW, even if it's the norm at Tokyo DL/DS. "When in Rome..." etc.

 

[Princess Serendipity]

Not exactly. Let's call a spade a spade. They're EGL brands, not something mainstream like Prada or Dior, and most people at WDW are going to look at that & think it means Egregious & Grievous Lace. They will also think "Alice," & that association is inappropriate for WDW, even if it's the norm at Tokyo DL/DS. "When in Rome..." etc.

Hahaha, I was trying to avoid naming it for reasons (I'm sure you know why.). You're right of course- they're not mainstream big brands like Chanel, but I don't think that just because they're not big or mainstream doesn't make the designers not designers, and they're still fashion brands even if they're alt/street fashion. I mean, look at the Brand vs. Off-brand/Homemade/Bodyline/Taobao/Milanoo debates. I'll give you Alice- saxe dresses (especially with aprons or pinafores) should probably be avoided, but I know I've seen tons of discussion in the community about wearing EGL at Disney and a lot of the consensus I saw was "avoid wearing saxe."

And you're not wrong in that most people will see it and side-eye it for looking unusual, but does unusual automatically equal costume? Personally, I think costume boils down to intent- are you just wearing your clothes? Or are you actually trying to look like a character? And even with "just clothes," I'm sure there are lines to be drawn with alt fashion. I just wish Disney would define those lines already.

Preferably with at least a little leeway towards those with a taste towards the "unsual" when it comes to fashion.

 

[DisneyOma]

Banning military uniforms because they are costumes is actuality against military regulations I think.

Military regulations have to do with the military, not civilian businesses.

That's why all this vague is a problem. They aren't costumes to you. Those dresses are 100% costume to me. If I had employees try to come to work in that clothing I would send them home because it looks like costumes/cosplay. They are their interpretations of a Disney Character's costume. I'm not anti-having fun with it. I love steampunk, I've gone to DragonCon, I dress up for MNSSHP, I dress up big just to hand out Halloween candy .... and there is a place all that fits.

The question here is Disney is saying no costumes for teens/adults. What they haven't said is what is a costume. You can't have folks show up and it be up to the individual CM whether it's a costume. If you and I were working side by side, and those girls showed up and split in our lines. You would let your girls through and I would stop mine. Now what? Guests arguing and getting upset, managers being called over ..... a cluster.

What characters are they representing??? They are made out of printed fabric, and I've never seen a Disney character dressed anything like any one of those.

You'll literally never see a comprehensive list from Disney saying "this is allowed, this isn't allowed" for the simple reason that it'd be impossible to cover everything and some people live for finding loopholes.

When CMs were trained on this policy, we were shown example photos of "OK" and "not OK" - religious and cultural garb is ok. Disneybounding is ok. Dressing nice for Dapper Day (or on any other day) is ok. Dressing weird/'kawaii'/goth/whatever is ok. Military uniforms are ok. But if you resemble a specific character, person, or thing (or CM outfit - which was part of the problem) to the point where it potentially impacts Disney Show, it's not ok.

Really, honestly, literally???

To me, they are 100% costumes. They may be shaped like a 5 year old little girl's dress - but the fabric, the accessories and the way they are presented are costumes when worn by a grown woman.

And this is the whole point here - what is a costume to me, is not to you. What is a costume to one CM, is not to the other. You would let them in, I would not.

Disney has said NO COSTUMES. What people are asking is - what is a costume to them? Do they mean a copy of a Disney character or CM? Do they mean clothing that is not standard wear - meaning the guest will stand out among all other guests, potentially confusing other guests? What do they mean?

It really doesn't matter what I think or you think, it only matters what they think since they have the rule.

To you it's a five year old's style of dress, to the young women wearing them they are what's trendy now to wear everywhere, not just at WDW. So I get your point, but I'm thinking they mean anything that either makes it hard to identify the person, or someone who could pass themselves off as a Disney employee.

 

[Jhondy210]

What about the costume dresses like this:

http://www.hottopic.com/product/sta...dress/10402467.html#q=star+wars+dress&start=9

Costume or dress? I was thinking of getting a dress like this for my upcoming WDW trip but I don't want to be turned away at the gate. For clarification, I would wear a dress like this with normal shoes and nothing else to make it more of a "costume" besides the dress is designed to look like a storm trooper outfit.

 

[ravenclawtrekkie]

What about the costume dresses like this:

http://www.hottopic.com/product/star-wars-her-universe-stormtrooper-dress/10402467.html#q=star+wars+dress&start=9

Costume or dress? I was thinking of getting a dress like this for my upcoming WDW trip but I don't want to be turned away at the gate. For clarification, I would wear a dress like this with normal shoes and nothing else to make it more of a "costume" besides the dress is designed to look like a storm trooper outfit.

Should be just fine. An R2-D2 dress similar to that was used as one of our "OK" examples in training.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What about the costume dresses like this:

http://www.hottopic.com/product/star-wars-her-universe-stormtrooper-dress/10402467.html#q=star+wars+dress&start=9

Costume or dress? I was thinking of getting a dress like this for my upcoming WDW trip but I don't want to be turned away at the gate. For clarification, I would wear a dress like this with normal shoes and nothing else to make it more of a "costume" besides the dress is designed to look like a storm trooper outfit.

Disneyland was selling the Her Universe line of Star Wars clothing, including printed dresses (though I didn't see this specific stormtrooper one), so I would think if Disney is selling it, it's OK to wear there.

 

[JulieWent]

I think we all know the line where an outfit turns into a costume.

LOL Hmmm. You probably don't teach high school students. ;-)

 

[HopperFan]

What characters are they representing??? They are made out of printed fabric, and I've never seen a Disney character dressed anything like any one of those.

I didn't say they were representing Disney characters, I said they are costumes. I have yet to see anywhere that Disney is saying their rule is "no Disney character costumes" - they have only said "no costumes".

So if the interpretation is it can't be Disney characters or look like CMs, that would mean I can come to the parks dressed as my skeleton, and the folks I saw who were the Flintstones, Minions, Harry Potter, Olive Oil & Popeye etc could all still dress as those characters since they clearly are not Disney characters ............. that makes no sense.

All I am saying is if Disney is saying "no costumes" period, they need to let people know what they think is a costume because clearly we all have different views.

 

[ArwenMarie]

LOL Hmmm. You probably don't teach high school students. ;-)

That's why it's so hard to even come up with rules about dress that cover every circumstance, even for schools. You hear those stories all the time about kids getting sent home for this and that. I don't envy school principals in that way and I can see why uniforms/dress-codes are often easier to manage.

 

[Boopuff]

Our middle school dress code is "The 3 B's" you're not allowed to show: Butts, Bellies or Bras! That "covers" most infractions. Parents always seem to think that spaghettis strap is ok and the girls end up sporting the school t-shirt for the day

 

[larryz]

That's why it's so hard to even come up with rules about dress that cover every circumstance, even for schools. You hear those stories all the time about kids getting sent home for this and that. I don't envy school principals in that way and I can see why uniforms/dress-codes are often easier to manage.

Hence, the suggestion for the "guest uniform." Disney could sell a million of 'em...