At what point does clothing become a "costume"?

[ArwenMarie]

Ahhh. But herein lies the problem. It isn't a matter of you asking yourself what you wear in everyday life. The issue is that Disney has to ask each guest what they wear in everyday life. And this is where mom2rtk has it right. Disney does, in fact, have to defend its policy. GreatLakes concedes that Disney can't cross religious lines (or cultural ones when culture and ethnicity merge) . Even as a private company, it has legal obligations not to discriminate. So good luck with this new policy when people show up at the gate dressed like this: (all of which I have seen at one time or another):

My point was that there is an element of common sense here. Yes, the people in your pictures dress in those ways due to cultural or religious beliefs and shouldn't have to change how they dress and I don't believe they will have to. All of the pictures you show don't conflict with how any costumed CMs dress so less likely to be a concern as well.

 

[JimmyV]

My point was that there is an element of common sense here. Yes, the people in your pictures dress in those ways due to cultural or religious beliefs and shouldn't have to change how they dress and I don't believe they will have to. All of the pictures you show don't conflict with how any costumed CMs dress so less likely to be a concern as well.

I agree with you that all of these people would likely get past security under the new rules, but that just points out the hypocrisy and difficulty in enforcement of the new rules. Each of the people depicted is "more costumed" than what many people here would like to wear to the parks but might not be able to under the new rules. Somehow, the CMs have to differentiate between a Mennonite and a woman or girl dressed up as Aunt Polly or Becky Thatcher.

 

[bc7ate9]

It's one of the busiest weeks of the year right now and, as far as I know, there haven't been any reports of anybody being accused of wearing a costume...does anybody else think we are maybe making a bigger deal of this than it really is??

 

[JimmyV]

It's one of the busiest weeks of the year right now and, as far as I know, there haven't been any reports of anybody being accused of wearing a costume...does anybody else think we are maybe making a bigger deal of this than it really is??

Probably. It's what we do here. But...I don't know that this is the type of thing that is going to make the 6:00 news, so I don't think that the fact that we haven't heard any reports is indicative of much. There could be all sorts of enforcement going on and people being told to go back to their resort to change, and we would never know about it. Or, the CMs could be ignoring the new rules altogether.

 

[mitsukoshi samurai]

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/2015...entrance-busch-gardens-williamsburg/74301800/

look at this incident at a seaworld park BGW

 

[mitsukoshi samurai]

duplicate post

 

[wilkeliza]

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/2015...entrance-busch-gardens-williamsburg/74301800/

look at this incident at a seaworld park BGW

When did a Kilt become a costume? I have a friend who wears a kilt here and there because like this gentleman it is apart of his heritage. Nothing about that guy screams costume to me.

 

[kamik86]

Even just saying anything that can be confused with CMs is hard.

DH has been thought to be a CM many times. It is because he has one of those lanyard square disney pin holders on his hip. A few years ago they were selling them but for the last few years only the CMs have been able to get them. So many of the CMs see it and assume he works there.

Add to that some of the CM costumes being pretty plain (dark blue polo with khaki pants for example... ) and you could easily look like a CM without being in a costume.

 

[wilkeliza]

Even just saying anything that can be confused with CMs is hard.

DH has been thought to be a CM many times. It is because he has one of those lanyard square disney pin holders on his hip. A few years ago they were selling them but for the last few years only the CMs have been able to get them. So many of the CMs see it and assume he works there.

Add to that some of the CM costumes being pretty plain (dark blue polo with khaki pants for example... ) and you could easily look like a CM without being in a costume.

That polo has a FP Mickey head on it though. Those who are looking for the quick CM vs not CM in an official way would look for that. Also the blue polos have breath flaps. Not many regular guest would have shirts with the breath flap. I will say though that the FP crews do typically wear their name tags outside their costume when backstage. Even full costume CMS (outside of characters) are suppose to make their ID visible when they are backstage but most don't since their work gear should be a give away.

Managers who wear regular gear and pins will always have their blue company ID visible. The pin holder is silly to me. I was mistaken for a CM one time simply because I had pins on but that was by a guest and not another CM.

 

[Skywise]

"Cap on head, suit that's red
Special night, beard that's white

Must be Santa"

 

[kamik86]

That polo has a FP Mickey head on it though. Those who are looking for the quick CM vs not CM in an official way would look for that. Also the blue polos have breath flaps. Not many regular guest would have shirts with the breath flap. I will say though that the FP crews do typically wear their name tags outside their costume when backstage. Even full costume CMS (outside of characters) are suppose to make their ID visible when they are backstage but most don't since their work gear should be a give away.

Managers who wear regular gear and pins will always have their blue company ID visible. The pin holder is silly to me. I was mistaken for a CM one time simply because I had pins on but that was by a guest and not another CM.

See for CMs the fact that there is a small logo etc would work... but if the idea is that guests wont' confuse you for a CM...

Yeah I have had people assume I worked at a store because I was wearing a lanyard with keys. This was at Target. I was not wearing red or khaki.

So to have people miss the little FP mickey and breath flaps... yeah not that hard.


As for the IDs backstage that makes sense but even that I doubt would get questioned too often. Where I work I am always supposed to have my badge visible. Can't tell you how many times I walked through security stuck my badge in my coat pocket again and forgot to put it on when I got to my desk.

 

[wilkeliza]

See for CMs the fact that there is a small logo etc would work... but if the idea is that guests wont' confuse you for a CM...

Yeah I have had people assume I worked at a store because I was wearing a lanyard with keys. This was at Target. I was not wearing red or khaki.

So to have people miss the little FP mickey and breath flaps... yeah not that hard.


As for the IDs backstage that makes sense but even that I doubt would get questioned too often. Where I work I am always supposed to have my badge visible. Can't tell you how many times I walked through security stuck my badge in my coat pocket again and forgot to put it on when I got to my desk.

I think the costume policy is more about security and CMs more than guests on some levels. A FP CM isn't going to suddenly start operating a ride or lead a small child off. A person dressed exactly like the New Fantasyland Attraction attendants may try to get to the controls and it could easily be explained with a quick well I've been training when you weren't working. Suddenly they can take over control of the Barn Stormer or Dumbo. A person dressed exactly like Snow White could suddenly offer a small child their hand and lead them backstage no questions asked. All hypotheticals that I know have never happened but are easily to forsee possibilities.

As I said in eariler posts CMs backstage do look for quick ques, okay Blue/turqoise button shirt and khakis, gets a quick thought of Where is the mickey head. Mickey head oh that's FP plus. No Mickey and no company ID. Okay that may be a guest I should stop and ask them to see ID. Normal clothes, no ID, got to ask. Costume on but no ID, eh they were probably in a rush no need to ask. I guess I did work in a role where asking was apart of our job since we were apart of park open and park close/clear in Epcot. Although a guest can't make those quick judgments a CM has to be able to make them for safety reasons.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I agree with you that all of these people would likely get past security under the new rules, but that just points out the hypocrisy and difficulty in enforcement of the new rules. Each of the people depicted is "more costumed" than what many people here would like to wear to the parks but might not be able to under the new rules. Somehow, the CMs have to differentiate between a Mennonite and a woman or girl dressed up as Aunt Polly or Becky Thatcher.

There could be problems and issues that arise, no doubt. What do you propose Disney do?

 

[JaxDad]

When did a Kilt become a costume? I have a friend who wears a kilt here and there because like this gentleman it is apart of his heritage. Nothing about that guy screams costume to me.

I think the guy is a provocateur. A quick web search brings up pictures of him wearing trousers, yet he decided to wear his kilt to the Busch Gardens Howl-O-Scream event.

The park's policy for that event was clear: "The park does not wish to alienate anyone who wears traditional clothing representing their culture or heritage. However, if the clothing could confuse guests into thinking the wearer is part of the official Howl-O-Scream experience then we will not allow it in the park." Does the kilt fit that description? I don't know, but it is up to the discretion of the park to determine that.

And now he is claiming, "this has left a terrible stain on the honour of my culture as well as my ethnic pride."

 

[lovethattink]

The stores at the parks pulled the toy guns, but did not pull the cosplay dresses or shirts. Example, Watto's Grotto has several adult size T-shirts of Chewie, Han, Vader cosplay. And they still sell the Her Universe cosplay clothes. So I'd assume if it's still sold, it's fine to wear in the park.

 

[MeridaAnn]

I am an avid DisneyBounder - a local passholder who Bounds almost every time I go - and I definitely agree that I'd like to see a more concrete definition of what they count as a costume. I've never had problems with any of my bounds, even on Dapper Day. Some examples...

While these outfits are inspired by characters, there's no way I'm going to be mistaken for a CM. Now, in the Belle outfit, what if I was brunette instead and looked more like Belle? It's still a dress I bought off the shelf and that I'd wear in everyday life, so which side of the line is that on?

To me, these are not at all costumes. I've made real costumes for these characters
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f243/Lillian_Potter/Mobile Uploads/2015-10-28_21.13.33-1.jpg, http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f243/Lillian_Potter/Mobile Uploads/IMG_59743387610972.jpeg) and I would never dream of wearing them to the park. But regular outfits that match character color schemes? Sure!

There is a line *somewhere*, of course, the question is just where Disney is going to draw it. This, for example, I probably won't wear again now that they're being more stringent about costumes.

While I wasn't questioned at all, it's definitely closer to a costume than any of my others. At the time, I felt it was okay, because I had seen them allowing adults in full princess gowns in, and this was still not going to be mistaken for an actual CM. But I would have fully understood if I was asked to change, because I know this is a lot closer to the line than any of my others. Or maybe I could just ditch the tights and flower so that it's just the cute dress?

How about this one? These are all items off the shelf. Again, would the answer be the same for someone with different colored hair? Would I need to swap the black tank top out for a wide black belt?

Anyway, I'm in several FB groups for DisneyBounders, and no one has reported any issues yet, and I have a couple CM friends who are seeking more guidance, but I don't think there will be an issue with this sort of outfit (except, like I said, perhaps my "Lost Girl" look).

I think they will be focusing on folks like the guy making videos as Peter Pan or the girl I saw taking photos in a full Ella ballgown. That's where their focus *should* be, anyway, and the reason they had the need to reiterate the rule in the first place, not inspired-by looks like these.

 

[wilkeliza]

I would think the lost girl look, the last Ariel, and the Figment look were the only ones that might be borderline. Figment simply because of the wings. The last one because it does come off as costume more than bound.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

They will NEVER put it in writing and publish it, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.

I had a hunch all along the new policy was about it easier to tell everyone no costumes at all than it would be to tell individuals that their particular costume didn't pass.

Here's why.

 

[supersnoop]

To quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.."

 

[MeridaAnn]

To quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.."

But that court decision was eventually followed up with more specific guidelines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it) because "I know it when I see it" is completely tied to one person's opinion and simply can't be enforced the same way by different people. Even if Disney doesn't publish it publicly, they've got to give some sort of clarification to their CMs, or the policy will mean nothing because everyone's thresholds are so different.

For instance, I don't see the wings on my Figment outfit as a costume piece any more than Mickey Ears or the big Goofy hats they sell, because I am obviously not a purple dragon. To me, all of those items are just cute accessories, and the wings are no different than the ones on the Figmet hats and hoodies they sell at Epcot. But Wilkeliza does think the wings make the outfit a costume. If a friend and I both wore that same outfit and a CM let my friend through, but another blocked me, we would be understandably confused and upset.