At Last! All Illegal Immigrants to be expelled.

[cardaway]

The Mexican illegal immigrants are primarily Catholic. The people who will work the jobs when the illegals are sent back are not primarily Catholic. Our Church makes money now in the collection plate, and will make money off the future generations of the illegals who will live in the U.S., a more prosperous country than Mexico.

Exactly. The illegals may not pay taxes, but they give a percentage of their wages to the church just like other Catholics.

 

[dennis99ss]

Oh, this is great. If I were not reading it, I would not believe it.

So, the Catholic Church is supporting illegal immigration, not because it is the right thing to do in helping these people--Remember, do unto me.......

But, instead, it is a conspiracy that the Catholic Church is engaged in to increase their income.

If I did not believe that the people who stated this actually believe this contemptible position, I would actually laugh at its foundation.

 

[lyeag]

Not a conspiracy, a fact. More people in the pews generally = more in the collection plate. The church supports anyone who comes to them in need. It is not political for them.


However, it is also a fact that the majority of Mexicans are Catholic. Many of them are very devout. They support their parishes. If the illegals are sent back, I have no doubt the collections of many many parishes would decrease quite a bit.

 

[taximomfor4]

I hope there's a line of Americans to take the jobs that these people do...I'll say that in the construction industry I have yet to see one caucasian American boy signing up to trudge through the city sewer system to fix a crack.

Well, my sister is CLOSE....a caucasian American girl! But your point is pretty right on, she is not the norm on her jobs.

Beth

 

[Crankyshank]

Unless you know state by state demographics on illegal immigration, you can't possibly assume those who live places besides Mexican border states have no experience with illegal immigration.

Oh and I don't shop at Walmart

 

[sodaseller]

I am certain that the Church provides more than it gets on those ministries. And in reality, the Protestants are doing better than we are on both ministering and evangelizing to them, which has led to the coining of a new phrase - "Guadalupe Protestants", referring to central Americans that retain their love of our Lady while no longer being active in the Catholic Church but instead converting to a Protestant denomination.

Now the Bishops of the South are very vocal on poverty issues, of which immigration is one. But it is not due to economic self-interest. In fact, the Bishops that are the most vocal are the ones that "losing" this so-called economic asset

 

[momof2inPA]

Momof2inPA, mean spirited aren't you.
I also find it interesting that those people on the board who seem to live in areas on the "front line" seem more likely to be understanding of the benefits of this immigration, and certainly more understanding of it, as opposed to those who live some distance away.

I'm not trying to be mean spirited, and the way I feel is common, probably prevalent up North. It's also not unheard of in the South. Don't forget the minutemen that were welcomed by the citizens of Arizona. It's not that I don't like immigrants, but I'm in favor of working class Americans, and illegal immigration is a detriment to the payscale and working conditions of working class Americans.

Now if you are a Southerner (or Northerner) benefitting from hiring illegals- a contactor, a big farm operator, a meat packing plant owner, or someone else employing the illegals, I can see why you would be more "understanding" to their plight. It benefits your wallet.

 

[momof2inPA]

I am certain that the Church provides more than it gets on those ministries. And in reality, the Protestants are doing better than we are on both ministering and evangelizing to them, which has led to the coining of a new phrase - "Guadalupe Protestants", referring to central Americans that retain their love of our Lady while no longer being active in the Catholic Church but instead converting to a Protestant denomination.

Actually, our priest just left for a new gig in Wyoming. He said his new congregation is growing by leaps and bounds, largely due to immigrants. Even if the Church loses a certain percentage of those immigrants to the protestant churches, and I know that happens as I've seen it up here in our area, it's still an overall gain in numbers for the Church. As for the Church providing more for the immigrants than they are getting, you would have to show me the numbers. I don't believe it.

 

[sodaseller]

It's possible to be understanding to illegal immigrants (and to those that oppose them), without having a financial stake either way. In some cases, people takes the stands that they feel are morally obligatory.

And it is doubtful that immigrants depress domestic wages that greatly. Economic theory predicts some effect, but it's likely minimal, and in any event far less significant than outsourcoing.

IMO, the most rational objection is that it is yet another group to socially integrate into our society, and no mass social integration occurs without society changing in some painful ways. It's understandable that many do not relish that pain, I know I don't, but it is unavoidable, IMO, the persistence of change that is life - we are required morally to deal with constant change

 

[sodaseller]

Actually, our priest just left for a new gig in Wyoming. He said his new congregation is growing by leaps and bounds, largely due to immigrants. Even if the Church loses a certain percentage of those immigrants to the protestant churches, and I know that happens as I've seen it up here in our area, it's still an overall gain in numbers for the Church. As for the Church providing more for the immigrants than they are getting, you would have to show me the numbers. I don't believe it.

There wouldn't be any numbers - parishes don't track the proportion of offerings from immigrants, and certainly no Dioceses do. There's no metanalysis of enveloped collections for that matter, and the migarnts aren't registering in parishes. I know within the Diocese of St. Petersburg that east Hillsborough parishes that have a high proportion of immigrants are largely supported by other parishes through BAPA, and that hundereds of thousands go to those ministries yearly. It makes no sese to belive that those parishes are even self-supporting

 

[amc]

Bravo Denis99ss, I couldn't have said it better myself!!. There would be a huge impact on the economy if all the illegal immigrants were sent packing, and all those who do not believe this are living in Disneyworld and need to get back to reality and yes they still would be shopping at Walmart etc no matter what they say here!

 

[Ted and Holly]

lol, yeah!

[EDIT]: This subject is a tough one, innit? On the one hand, you have a simplisitc, gotta-enforce-the-law principle. Then all these threats of death occur. Suddenly, we have to wonder about the difference between legality and morality.

Ugh. I'm off to go get some orange juice.



Rich::

Who picked those oranges?

 

[momof2inPA]

And it is doubtful that immigrants depress domestic wages that greatly. Economic theory predicts some effect, but it's likely minimal, and in any event far less significant than outsourcoing.

Many jobs worked by illegals are unable to be sent overseas- construction, service industries, processing of U.S. poultry and cattle, etc. There is a big population who work in Elkhart, IN in the travel trailer industry. Those monstrosities would be difficult (but not impossible) and costly to ship from China. If these industries even offered limited health care and a small increase in wages, that would be a great benefit to U.S. workers.

Sure, people can take a stand based on morality, but I don't feel that my opinion is in any way less moral than theirs. We can help people in their own countries without allowing them to undermine our working class.

 

[momof2inPA]

Oh, this is great. If I were not reading it, I would not believe it.

So, the Catholic Church is supporting illegal immigration, not because it is the right thing to do in helping these people--Remember, do unto me.......

But, instead, it is a conspiracy that the Catholic Church is engaged in to increase their income.

If I did not believe that the people who stated this actually believe this contemptible position, I would actually laugh at its foundation.

Dennis, I'm Catholic.

The Church, worldwide and in the U.S., is always interested in increasing its coffers and its membership. I'm sure the Bishops and Priests in general want to help the poor, but they also have to worry about their bottom lines, their goals.

 

[momof2inPA]

Bravo Denis99ss, I couldn't have said it better myself!!. There would be a huge impact on the economy if all the illegal immigrants were sent packing, and all those who do not believe this are living in Disneyworld and need to get back to reality and yes they still would be shopping at Walmart etc no matter what they say here!

You're barkin' up the wrong tree. I don't shop at Walmart, either-- when I can help it, but I would love to live in Disneyworld.

 

[sodaseller]

Many jobs worked by illegals are unable to be sent overseas- construction, service industries, processing of U.S. poultry and cattle, etc. There is a big population who work in Elkhart, IN in the travel trailer industry. Those monstrosities would be difficult (but not impossible) and costly to ship from China. If these industries even offered limited health care and a small increase in wages, that would be a great benefit to U.S. workers.

Sure, people can take a stand based on morality, but I don't feel that my opinion is in any way less moral than theirs. We can help people in their own countries without allowing them to undermine our working class.

I didn't mean to suggest your position was immoral, at least not in the common sense of that word. In fact, I thought I went out of my way to state that I understood the other position. I was just responding to your suggestion that those that feel otherwise must be motivated by self-interest, even the Church. I thought that was a little shortsighted and offensive, and I was pointing out that there is a moral dimension to "supporting" illegals. That does not mean that "not supporting" illegals (hard to choose correct words), is necessarily immoral, though there are many that are just hateful on this issue, some of which have posted on this thread. But I did not read your posts as suggesting that you were motivated by hate at all, but by a concern on the impact on wages.

I disagree with you factually that they have much impact on wages, though I empathize with those that are suffering from outsourced jobs. I am genuinely conflicted on all those issues - I suspect globalization is unavoidable and a net good, but I am so moved by the misery it has caused to many, and I always note that I am fortunate enough, and fortunate is the right word, to have a vocation that will not likely be impacted by globalization - just the opposite.

Let me try to make clear what I am trying to say on the "morality" issue so as not to give unintended offense. I do believe that we are called morally to extend aid and hospitality to the stranger, but that is one of those "hard" teachings that I only occasionally live up to myself. So while I may say that we have a moral obligation help the immigrant, I appreciate that it is not easy to live up to, and I am not judgmental about those that feel differently or do not live up to it.

Let me use an admittedly extreme example. There is no doubt in my mind that we are called to forgive those that try to do us extreme harm, even those that try to kill us. Pope JP II met and forgave Mehmet Ali Agca, his assassin. But I doubt seriously that I could do the same (hopefully I could), and the last thing I would do would be to hector someone that could not. At the same time, if asked, I would feel compelled to state that it is our obligation to do so (and we ultimately release ourselves). So I may sincerely state that it is our moral duty to support the immigrant, but I don't mean to sound as if I am suggesting that those do not are cruel or consciously evil. I hope that was clear - no offense was intended.

 

[dennis99ss]

I can't believe you support Disney, who has manufacturing overseas, animation overseas, and cuts payrolls so that part timers do not get benefits, etc. Boycott them!

Really, though, about the "Minutemen" I find it absolutely perfect that they were sued over their activities in Arizona, and, the immigrants who they abused, ended up receiving title to the minuteman's ranch, and then about $100,000 from one of the minutemen personally. Total amount was about $800,000. Sweet Justice.

 

[lyeag]

I can't believe you support Disney, who has manufacturing overseas, animation overseas, and cuts payrolls so that part timers do not get benefits, etc. Boycott them!

Really, though, about the "Minutemen" I find it absolutely perfect that they were sued over their activities in Arizona, and, the immigrants who they abused, ended up receiving title to the minuteman's ranch, and then about $100,000 from one of the minutemen personally. Total amount was about $800,000. Sweet Justice.

Didn't those immigrants break into the house first?

 

[offwegotoneverland]

According to your PhD in Economics, what will happen if the supply of labor contracts and the demand is constant? Oh yeah, the price for that commodity, labor in this case, will increase. When the illegals are sent back, the labor that remains (U.S. citizens) will be paid more for the same jobs. Many of us have already said that we are willing to absorb that added cost.

The added cost is much higher than you may think..farm workers alone would be a huge impact..if you think it is just 1.00 a pound difference per apple etc your not aware of the huge impact a difference of even .25 per hour would make to the farmers bottom line (which in many cases is already being added to by subsdiy from gov but that's another thread).

You may not be able to truly afford the accross the board increases that would result in prices (and neither would the folks who took the new min. wage jobs created by the depature of immigrant workers).

and yes Canada faces the same issues in many areas from immigrants from a wide variety of countries as well.

 

[Viking]

An additional difference was that during the 1800 and early 1900s we needed people to populate our vast country. That is no longer a need that we have.

Sure, after you killed most of the 'legal residents' (Native Americans) there surely was a lot of room and demand for 'legal' immigrants