Ask Yourself This

[staci]

Let me explain this line of thinking. The righties have this belief in social Darwinism and they all think they're at the top of the food chain and will always be there. That's their whole philosophy in a nutshell.

What happened in the Gulf Coast could happen to any of us. Any of us, at any time, can find ourselves out of food, out of water, and out of communication with the outside world. Limbaugh will not be there to hand you a bottle of water, nor will O'Reilly hand you some food. Although, he may make a suggestion involving a loofa.......ahem.

Maybe all the righties can sign a paper so that in the next national emergency, we could just pass them by because they don't need any of the government help because they've exercised "personal responsiblity".

Any takers?

Thank you, you put that very well.

Although some people would like to make me out to be a person who relies on others for my daily existance, I am NOT. But in the event where natural or national disasters occur, I think all of us could find ourselves in the situation where we needed something that we did not personally have access to; water, transportation, medical care. I dont think it is unreasonable for someone in those circumstances to look to the government for assistance, that is a portion of what we pay taxes for. I realize now that I was NAIVE to think that our government could be relied upon for emergency assistance, as they did NOT adequately care for those stranded during this recent tragedy. But regardless of planning, I still think there may be a time where I would not be able to forsee all my needs and would need to wait on the government to help me out.

 

[totalia]

Thats disturbing and sad. Not everyone is perfect and sometimes people need help. Like what just happened.

How many "righties" here would actually be willing to pass a helicopter by while your sitting on your rooftop dying from hunger and thirst because "Its up to me to provide for myself"?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

People were dying. You enter other countries without permission to "save them". Why is it so horrible to enter an area of your own country to save them?

In the United States--per the constitution...it is assumed that states can take care of themselves unless told otherwise. It isn't the fault of the federal government for that...it is the fault of the state government.

As I said--I thought an area pre-declared a Federal Disaster--can override this assumption and if it doesn't, then it needs to be changed. Because when our state was declared--4 times last year...I sure as heck expected that help would be waltzing on in once the storm was over and not waiting for a personal engraved invitation from Bush.

I will not get into a debate on war.

This is not a party line issue. Stop trying to make it one!

The Feds were slow and the word on the street is that it was because of a non-clear request from a state government that had their heads someplace else on their body and thougth that they were in the clear on Monday and thought everything was just darn peachy when it wasn't.

 

[totalia]

Lisa Loves Pooh

How many times do you have to be told that the Mayor and Governor asked for federal help before the hurricane struck?

Try doing a search for a .pdf on these boards that will show you a copy of the official gvt document that shows the Governor did send in a formal request in advance to the President that directly requests aid.

You are WRONG. The request was already made. Why should it have to be made a second time?

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Yup, that's what this whole situation has taught me.

No matter how much our "leader" talks, when push came to shove, he didn't walk the walk. He laid down like a little puppy and is now blaming everyone he can find for telling him to "heel". I thought this guy was supposed to be a tough, man's man? No real man would have watched what happened and sat on his hands for days. A real man would have demanded that every helicopter available be used to rescue and deliver supplies to those poor people who we all watched DIE on TV. A real man wouldn't have been cutting cake at a photo op as the flood waters rolled in.

The wheels have been coming off the bus for a long time. When I think that we impeached Clinton for not being honest about having oral sex, it really puts this in perspective. It is unfathomable to me that some people condemn Clinton for that, but not Bush for, oh, I don't know, going against the U.N. and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, or not getting just some frickin' water to those poor people in the superdome.

I found it ironic at best when I just read a few minutes ago that we are now asking for supplies from the UN. First of all...we don't have supplies in America??? Second of all, how dare we ask them for help after we gave them the finger over the war. We want them there when it benefits the agenda, and ignore them when it doesn't.

N.E.D.

(That's not to say I'm not terribly happy for any help these poor people give, I just can't believe we had the nerve to ask them after we shunned them. It's no wonder Bush wants to seperate us from the World Court - I bet he's honestly worried about ending up on trial himself)

Charade thinks your post deserves rolling eyeballs. I, however, feel you're DEAD ON! Thanks for saying exactly what I feel.

What's it going to take to get the Bushies to understand their "leader" is a sham? Does Haliburton have the relief and cleanup contract yet?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You are WRONG. The request was already made. Why should it have to be made a second time?

There was a flattened state next to it.

New Orleans didn't think they were as bad as they were.

Triage--assess the worst places and go from there.

Rescues were under way as soon as conditions improved that rescue could get out and rescue people.

 

[ThAnswr]

Thank you, you put that very well.

Although some people would like to make me out to be a person who relies on others for my daily existance, I am NOT. But in the event where natural or national disasters occur, I think all of us could find ourselves in the situation where we needed something that we did not personally have access to; water, transportation, medical care. I dont think it is unreasonable for someone in those circumstances to look to the government for assistance, that is a portion of what we pay taxes for. I realize now that I was NAIVE to think that our government could be relied upon for emergency assistance, as they did NOT adequately care for those stranded during this recent tragedy. But regardless of planning, I still think there may be a time where I would not be able to forsee all my needs and would need to wait on the government to help me out.

It isn't unreasonable at all to expect help from your government. That's what good government does and what a civilized people believe should be done.

What is unreasonable is the belief that one is at the top of the food chain and always will be.

What is unreasonable is voting for people who tell you government is the problem and then expect those same people to be good public servants.

For crying out loud, if someone wanted advice in how to build a brick outhouse, would it be reasonable to ask someone who only believes in holes in the ground?

This government did exactly what they've been telling us they would do. They don't believe in government and they don't believe government can solve problems. Any wonder they screwed up as badly as they do.

It would be unreasonable to wonder.

 

[totalia]

Yes, and in the meantime, the locals were helping people already.

Which tells us thats crap.

And yes, I know what happened to the other states. It wasn't nearly as bad as what happened in Louisiana. It should be very obvious...

Shall we do the math?

Settled on mostly swamp land+Mississippi river+Lake Ponchatrain+Gulf of Mexico+Hurricane=disaster.

Which state did you think would get it worse? Which city did you think could possibly end up under water?

Lets see... none of the other states had the same problems as Louisiana. None had the same circumstance.

Who did you think would get it worse?

I know how bad the other states were hurt. The gvt response isn't adequate for ANY of the gulf coast. New Orleans just got it the worst.

If I can figure that out, why wouldn't anyone else?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

never mind

 

[totalia]

Since the hurricane struck, I've been told by people on this board to keep my mouth shut (or my hands away from my keyboard as the case may be) because I'm not American despite the truths and facts of my fiance and his family, I've also been called a communist, had a joke made out of the mounties in my country (despite the fact that I've never ever made a joke out of anything in your country and I never ever will out of respect for your people), and today I was told that I live in a "mommy nation". All in only slightly nicer terms.

I haven't mentioned right wing or left wing at all. Though alot of people sure have to me.

Now, all of THAT was insulting. Not to mention purposely hurtful. Only once did I choose to say something about it despite how frustrated, angry and hurt I'm getting.

How is what I said insulting at all? I pointed out the obvious. Not to be cruel but to simply point out the truth that some people have decided to ignore.

Before you call someone insulting, I suggest you actually read what they say. And consider what you yourself have said.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I apologize totalia--hence deleting my post pretty much.

Many are trying to politicize this by basically saying if you are republican and still like bush--then this is why we have the opinions we have.

I have opinions on all sides of this issue and there is no party line. And I think it absurb for anyone (in this very thread and in others) to try to pull the politics card and then ask if we'd feel the same way if stuck on a roof. We are all disgusted to see a part of our country turn into a 3rd world rescue effort when we have resources to do much better than that.

(And I haven't said keep your mouth shut or that you shouldn't have an opinion--your fiance lived in the area which makes your opinions just as valid as anyone b/c it could have very easily been him stuck on the roof or in the superdome).

 

[snowy76]

How many "righties" here would actually be willing to pass a helicopter by while your sitting on your rooftop dying from hunger and thirst because "Its up to me to provide for myself"?

Since when is help all or nothing, all government or no government? Providing for oneself doesn't mean turning down help. But it does mean using common sense when living in a hurricane prone area, or a flood prone area, or a tornado prone area, or a snowstorm prone area (like mine). It's called preparation. Earlier today I posted the government's own website with a whole list of things we can do to prepare for a disaster. Not once does it say "let the government take care of everything." People wrongly assume that Homeland Security is the catch-all. I don't think the government can predict all the needs resulting from all disasters. Even govenrment workers are *gasp!* just like us.

Remember the old saying, "If you want something done right, do it yourself?" I'm an adult and I'll take responsibility for myself, before I ask anyone else to.

 

[snowy76]

totalia,

I just re-read some of the posts. I'm sorry if anyone is making personal attacks on you. That's just nasty and doesn't get anyone anywhere.

But, I would like to politely disagree with this:

Try doing a search for a .pdf on these boards that will show you a copy of the official gvt document that shows the Governor did send in a formal request in advance to the President that directly requests aid. You are WRONG. The request was already made. Why should it have to be made a second time?

Is this the same thing, from the LA government website? http://www.gov.state.la.us/Disaster Relief Request.pdf
This is a standard request for monetary and personnel assistance once the disaster ends. These are for programs to get people loans to rebuild their homes, extra money to the cities for rebuilding roads, etc. A friend of mine worked for HUD in this capacity. She traveled all over handling these things.

It's normally requested before the disaster to speed up the response time. Which explains why Blanco made the request.

Now... here's the frustrating part. This is not a request for help or a takeover of the actual evacuation and rescue. These are separate issues from the relief effort. So yes, a second request would have to have been made. Until that request is made and granted, only the governor has the power to send in the National Guard to conduct rescue. No one with federal power can go in, especially the enlisted military. Then you'd have martial law and this is where it becomes an issue of the Constitution. It's 200+ years of balancing the states' powers with that of the central government (so much so that the Fathers even objected to the term "central" or "national" and chose "federal" instead).

She did not turn over that power to the feds *in this request*. The help she asked for was mostly to rebuild and clean up, not to rescue anyone. To do that, she'd have to turn over her command of the situation, and for whatever reason, she did not.

 

[totalia]

Thanks Lisa and snowy. I'm sorry I've gotten upset. Its just very hard dealing with it. You can't believe the pain and worry my fiance and his family are going through. Or the friends.

 

[What the Heck]

Thanks Lisa and snowy. I'm sorry I've gotten upset. Its just very hard dealing with it. You can't believe the pain and worry my fiance and his family are going through. Or the friends.

You have my prayers and best wishes for your fiance and his family and all you know affected by this.