As members aren't we entitled to a fair Wait List system?

[mjc2003]

This is not true. The points go back into your account. You can't see them online or book with them online, but MS will be able to see them and use them if they are valid for the reservation you want to switch to.

That said, I wouldn't take the chance of cancelling a reservation online and then calling MS hoping that what I wanted would still be available. I would have MS do both the cancel and the re-book.

One time points expire at the end of the use year into which the reservation that first used them fell. They cannot be banked or borrowed.

If the MS CM tells you something different, politely ask for a Supervisor - as you see from what lilpooh108 copied from the website, you originally received incorrect information. Unfortunately, that sometimes happens.

You are correct. I misinterpreted or was given bad info.

 

[Minniesgal]

Wait lists are definitely not only run at night as I have had a wait list come through mid morning before. They are also not run continuously as I have definitely found available in the booking system a room I had wait.isted.

 

[dmunsil]

Wait lists are definitely not only run at night as I have had a wait list come through mid morning before. They are also not run continuously as I have definitely found available in the booking system a room I had wait.isted.

Given the vagaries of these complex custom database systems, it's always possible that the schedule and operation has changed in the past and may still change. It could be when things are running well they run the waitlist scavenger many times a day and hold every cancellation for a few hours until the waitlist is checked. But when things are very busy and everything is running slow, they put the waitlist checker in "overnight only" mode and let cancellations go back into the pool immediately.

It's pretty clear that people have found stuff that was on their waitlist before the waitlist system picked it up. I had kind of the opposite experience. I was waiting for two days of a SSR Grand Villa with two single-day waitlists, and I was checking like every 30-60 minutes. Midafternoon one day I saw a bunch of days show up with a prominent gap on the days I wanted. I cursed my luck but a couple hours later I got notification that my waitlists came through. My assumption is that someone canceled their whole trip (or was bumped up to a GV somewhere else), the system saw that two of the days were on a waitlist, snagged those, and released the rest.

They might change their algorithm on a regular basis to try to find the right mix of system load and fairness. Certainly they aren't going to bog down the whole system just to achieve perfection in some other way. But I think they do want people to see the waitlist system as working, because if people know they can count on the waitlist to get them their room, they won't be slamming the system by checking constantly.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

OP here, just as an update I called in and was told that I cannot cancel the reservation with the hopes of using the one time points to book online. The points would not be lost, but MS would have to make any reservations, thus defeating any purpose to booking a dummy reservation only to cancel to be able to use the points the moment I see something available online. Doesn't work that way.

More interestingly, in my conversation with MS I was told that the waitlist is run constantly throughout the day, and ALL cancellations are run against the wait list BEFORE becoming available on the website. Since I was told earlier that this is way too complicated and would tax the system, and since it was generally accepted that the wait lists are run only at night, I find this info interesting. I politely asked the representative to confirm this with a supervisor, who also confirmed that wait lists are matched each time there's a cancellation, NOT only at night.

So when I originally started this post I said there was a lot of ambiguity as to how WL's worked, and several people responded to say there is no mystery, they are run at night. Turns out this is not the case. Or is it? Who knows, but MS is saying otherwise.

I have never thought the waitlist was run only at night and have posted that before - just not on this thread. I do doubt that cancelled rooms are held and checked against the waitlist though before being released. My thoughts come from what I've seen since the online booking came about and not at all on info from the person doing the programming who might be the only person that knows for certain.

The point about not being able to book online with the one time use points is what everyone was acknowledging but not the bit about losing them if you cancel the reservation online.

 

[disneynutz]

Wait lists are definitely not only run at night as I have had a wait list come through mid morning before. They are also not run continuously as I have definitely found available in the booking system a room I had wait.isted.

Per the Team Lead manager that I spoke to 2 weeks ago, the software program that does the match is run at night. The results of that software run are applied the next day manually by CM's.

There are too many variables for a software program to make the reservation, (take points from here, cancel days from there).

The manual change to the wait list reservation happens throughout the day but the matching is done at night, that explains why inventory may become available and booked by someone else before the software run each night.

Bill

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

so everyone looking out for #1? not that there's anything wrong
with that....but shouldn't dvc top mangers- recognize this fact &
take the proper actions to ensure dvc- "works" for all members?

special thanks to the op because i think his concerns became
a learning format when other owners added their input~ good/
bad or even indifference ...were not problem to me,....&
i tell you why i think that way.....pending many principle factors-
determine where an individual owner "stands"....what factors?
(here's the ones i am considering when trying to figure out
the reason/s behind their posting---direct vs resales, new vs
a new owner under 6mos, i year , 2 years ,3 years & so forth
back to the beginning; dvc only vs those with other time sales -
even down to rci & other types , those that see this as major
luxury vs an investment, those that inherited or gifted vs those
that earned every dollar. ). so before responding or just reading-
it isn't surprising how some are feeling but it is the overall
ideas & the trends i think are valuable.

what i think about the current wait-list.....there are a need for
for changes/improvements.

speaking of other needs.....i also bigger needs in renting. the
way i see dvc is trying to ignore it instead of fixing the problems
that are effecting owners vs renters & to reduce the overall
risks. ( reading the tss home page with the recent scam
warming is very alarming that sooner instead of later a scam
will go after a large group of renters ) . not to mentioned about
the rci traders where i think all owners should be able to
find out exactly what is going on & there should be accountability
for breaking the resorts ' rules....& the damages.

of course those are just my feelings, but based on a large part
of what i keep reading here.

sure life isn't fair but it doesn't mean one can't learn from mistakes.
and my "great" dvc expectation is for them to do problem solving
& to add corrective measures.

 

[Dean]

OP here, just as an update I called in and was told that I cannot cancel the reservation with the hopes of using the one time points to book online. The points would not be lost, but MS would have to make any reservations, thus defeating any purpose to booking a dummy reservation only to cancel to be able to use the points the moment I see something available online. Doesn't work that way.

More interestingly, in my conversation with MS I was told that the waitlist is run constantly throughout the day, and ALL cancellations are run against the wait list BEFORE becoming available on the website. Since I was told earlier that this is way too complicated and would tax the system, and since it was generally accepted that the wait lists are run only at night, I find this info interesting. I politely asked the representative to confirm this with a supervisor, who also confirmed that wait lists are matched each time there's a cancellation, NOT only at night.

So when I originally started this post I said there was a lot of ambiguity as to how WL's worked, and several people responded to say there is no mystery, they are run at night. Turns out this is not the case. Or is it? Who knows, but MS is saying otherwise.

My info is the same as Bill's, that the WL is matched manually during the day by a subset of CM when they have time. This seems to be more in the afternoon and evening. It's a fair system but it's no where near perfect. A program that continually searched would be far too complicated and likely slow the current reservation system to the point of crashing it. The obvious fix, which I don't know if they can do with their current system, is to hold new inventory and cancelations until they are checked against the WL. Given they haven't done so, I would assume it's not possible with their system. I own 3 systems where I have WL options. They are all different and each have their plusses and problems. ASAMOF, I just matched this morning off the WL for a 5 night stay at Marriott's Grande Ocean for next summer to match our other 6 weeks reserved there. With BG, WL in advance of the reservation window is a perk of their VIP system. I'm currently on the WL for 2 units in Savannah for 2014 which I should hear about within a week or so if I get it (I may not as I put it on late).

 

[Sandisw]

so everyone looking out for #1? not that there's anything wrong
with that....but shouldn't dvc top mangers- recognize this fact &
take the proper actions to ensure dvc- "works" for all members?

special thanks to the op because i think his concerns became
a learning format when other owners added their input~ good/
bad or even indifference ...were not problem to me,....&
i tell you why i think that way.....pending many principle factors-
determine where an individual owner "stands"....what factors?
(here's the ones i am considering when trying to figure out
the reason/s behind their posting---direct vs resales, new vs
a new owner under 6mos, i year , 2 years ,3 years & so forth
back to the beginning; dvc only vs those with other time sales -
even down to rci & other types , those that see this as major
luxury vs an investment, those that inherited or gifted vs those
that earned every dollar. ). so before responding or just reading-
it isn't surprising how some are feeling but it is the overall
ideas & the trends i think are valuable.

what i think about the current wait-list.....there are a need for
for changes/improvements.

speaking of other needs.....i also bigger needs in renting. the
way i see dvc is trying to ignore it instead of fixing the problems
that are effecting owners vs renters & to reduce the overall
risks. ( reading the tss home page with the recent scam
warming is very alarming that sooner instead of later a scam
will go after a large group of renters ) . not to mentioned about
the rci traders where i think all owners should be able to
find out exactly what is going on & there should be accountability
for breaking the resorts ' rules....& the damages.

of course those are just my feelings, but based on a large part
of what i keep reading here.

sure life isn't fair but it doesn't mean one can't learn from mistakes.
and my "great" dvc expectation is for them to do problem solving
& to add corrective measures.

But, wouldn't one option be to eliminate members ability to wait list at all. How many would really be in favor of that?

I love having online booking and the ability to see availability without having to call MS. There are times I am on there just checking for rooms for trips we are considering but have not completely decided on. Being able to do so online is nice.

Of course, the drawback of all of this is that members have instant access to book rooms and there are going to be times when a room is showing available and most likely a wait list is in place.

There is never going to be a system that is completely fair to all members. I got on a wait list last year in June for a 1 bedroom SV room for 2 nights the 3rd week in October. It filled within 3 weeks. I can't believe that there wasn't someone who had possible been on a wait list for those same nights prior to me. But, most likely, they needed more than 2 nights so I got them instead. How is that fair? Should rooms be held from inventory until an entire wait list is filled?

I know I would rather have the options we have now, the option of even putting in a wait list, knowing that there is a chance that it might show up online for someone else than not having it at all. JMO, YMMV.

 

[CarolMN]

There is no universal agreement on what is "fair".

IMO, the system now in place is a very good balance between cost effectiveness and a system that many who have posted in this thread would consider "fair" - i.e., one that captures cancellations & new inventory (from declarations into the condominium) and fills waitlist requests in order before inventory is released for others to book.

 

[Dean]

But, wouldn't one option be to eliminate members ability to wait list at all. How many would really be in favor of that?

And that's the most likely outcome.

 

[AmyB2006]

And that's the most likely outcome.

Exactly. LOL Happens at my job all the time. The "complainers" complain all the time about something long enough, the higher ups just take that option away. Then, there's nothing to complain about.

 

[iluvthsgam]

A program that continually searched would be far too complicated and likely slow the current reservation system to the point of crashing it.

I respectfully disagree. See, e.g., the stock market - a much more complicated system matching buyers and sellers at near instantaneous intervals - all taking into account different buy and sell orders and stop prices (i.e. waitlists - if the price gets to $x buy/sell x shares), with infinitely more traffic than DVC.

It certainly is possible and certainly can be done without crashing the system. The obvious question is whether Disney wants to spend the money to do it - and at this point its clear that no, it isn't worth the cost to Disney to implement that kind of advanced system.

 

[Sammie]

With the advent of the online booking system, would not bother me in the least for them to discontinue.

I am definitely not in favor of changes to a system if that cost is passed on to the membership.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

With the advent of the online booking system, would not bother me in the least for them to discontinue.

Sounds like one of those "due to member requests" moments.

I would hope that wouldn't happen and it sounds like in some ways DVC is already behind in the waitlist area. Plus ending waitlisting would favor those who have time to constantly check online for rooms and places those who only call in - or can look online for rooms infrequently at the bottom of the heap.

 

[Dean]

I respectfully disagree. See, e.g., the stock market - a much more complicated system matching buyers and sellers at near instantaneous intervals - all taking into account different buy and sell orders and stop prices (i.e. waitlists - if the price gets to $x buy/sell x shares), with infinitely more traffic than DVC.

It certainly is possible and certainly can be done without crashing the system. The obvious question is whether Disney wants to spend the money to do it - and at this point its clear that no, it isn't worth the cost to Disney to implement that kind of advanced system.

My reference was with the knowledge it's Disney and their IT system, not that there would be no way to do it if you wanted to go overkill on programs and hardware. I know even a simple report at work will slow our system down or make it crash so we have those run off hours. Truthfully such a system running continually would have to interact with every single transaction MS does related to cancelations and bookings, from a system standpoint it'd be far more invasive than what you describe on a % basis.

 

[disneynutz]

Sounds like one of those "due to member requests" moments.

I would hope that wouldn't happen and it sounds like in some ways DVC is already behind in the waitlist area. Plus ending waitlisting would favor those who have time to constantly check online for rooms and places those who only call in - or can look online for rooms infrequently at the bottom of the heap.

People who check constantly are currently favored over those who wait list due to the systems design.

Bill

 

[tinkfan]

Per the Team Lead manager that I spoke to 2 weeks ago, the software program that does the match is run at night. The results of that software run are applied the next day manually by CM's.

There are too many variables for a software program to make the reservation, (take points from here, cancel days from there).

The manual change to the wait list reservation happens throughout the day but the matching is done at night, that explains why inventory may become available and booked by someone else before the software run each night.

Bill

I truly beleive this is correct especially considering what happened with me just today.
I have been on a wait list for a 1bdrm at AKV concierge for a while. I check availablity several times a day and did so last night and nothing was. This morning around 10 am I checked and the nights before and after mine suddenly showed available, but not the night I needed, the big X there. I found this kind of odd and hoped that meant that I got my night, but had no email. It bugged me all day and later I checked again and it still showed the same. I did notice that my waitlist was not showing on the member home page as it had before so I decided to call MS about 5pm. Sure enough , my waitlist had matched, it just had not been processed yet. She took care of it right then while I was on the phone. So I for one am very happy with the way the system works flaws and all and hope they don't discontinue it!

 

[maburke]

The obvious question is whether Disney wants to spend the money to do it - and at this point its clear that no, it isn't worth the cost to Disney to implement that kind of advanced system.

But I don't think it would be paid for by Disney, would it? I think the cost would be passed on to members in our annual fees.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

People who check constantly are currently favored over those who wait list due to the systems design.

Bill

Or sometimes the waitlists fill even after you cancel and waitlist something else. That happened to me last week. I'm not certain how that fits into the equation though.

 

[Judique]

This is not true. The points go back into your account. You can't see them online or book with them online, but MS will be able to see them and use them if they are valid for the reservation you want to switch to.

That said, I wouldn't take the chance of cancelling a reservation online and then calling MS hoping that what I wanted would still be available. I would have MS do both the cancel and the re-book.

One time points expire at the end of the use year into which the reservation that first used them fell. They cannot be banked or borrowed.

Sometime in May I had 65 points left in my account.

So, I decided to take an 'extra' trip.

The original nights I booked added up to 68 points so I bought 3 one time use points.

I then made a change to the reservation when I saw something I liked better pop up online. I called MS and they cancelled and rebooked for me. The change left me with 5 points in my account. (The new reservation took 63 points.)

I can 'see' those remaining 5 points in my account. They are going to expire Sept 30 as my next trip is November (October use year). And I am past banking deadline if they were bankable. They are not as they are described as borrowed from 2013 (2 points in my Vero contract) and banked into 2012 (3 points in my BWV contract).

So, I am guessing the one time use points were used up?