Article: To succeed after college, avoid taking out student loans

[DawnM]

Ah, well, that does make all the difference. The college I attended is now $28K per year for tuition (well, last I checked, it could be more now) plus fees, etc....

I can't afford to send my kids to my alma mater.

Dawn

Yes, he attends a private lutheran school. His cost is as a commuter student, he lives at home. The cost is just tuition. His books this year wear $2100 for 2semesters.
When folks are addressing applying to state schools, there is an individual application fee for each campus within the state school system. This also controls how many schools we applied to, as lower income students apply for free.

 

[MrsPete]

That entirely depends on the school. An English major at the University of Chicago is going to get a job at a Wall Street firm will before, say, a finance major at the University of Indiana.

As somebody who has been on hiring committees were I've worked, we don't care what you majored in, we care how prestigious your degree is. Harsh reality, but that's life.

I know that's so for some careers, but it's not a universal truth.

I'm a teacher, and it doesn't matter a bit WHERE you went to school. In fact, your degree won't get you a teaching job (every other candidate also has a degree and the very same teaching certification). What's going to make you stand out from the crowd? Experience, whether it's classroom experience or just a very good student teaching experience. We want evidence that you know your content area, have good classroom management, and are a team player -- among other things. Bringing in a book of your best lessons, including WebQuests, etc. is a plus. Also, the ability to do something unique (coach basketball, teach an unusual subject like German) will set you apart from the crowd. In my world, any of those things are more important than the name on your diploma.

My husband's an engineer. If you needed a person for a technical job like his, I'm sure you'd hire the applicant with the engineering degree from State U before you'd hire the English major or the finance major from College O'Prestige.

 

[ssawka]

I kind of disagree with this. I did exactly that; I majored in something with an eye towards earning potential, not towards what most interested me, and I have regretted it ever since. I majored in computer science, and yes, I found a nice job after graduation, and yes, I make more money now than most of my peers, but I am miserable in my job, and completely uninterested in working in this industry anymore.

I am taking steps to change that by going back to school to get a different degree and teaching certification. Yes, I am spending tens of thousands of dollars to go back to school to get a degree that will hopefully result in me taking a job in which I make far less than what I make now because I'm more interested in that kind of work than what I'm doing now. I consider it money well spent if the end result is me working in a job that makes me happy rather than a job that makes me miserable.

I really wish now that I had majored in art history or English or anything else than computer science because then I wouldn't have wasted credits and time taking classes that bored me out of my mind just because the degree was more marketable.

I think as long as a student thinks ahead, does internships, and is realistic about their job prospects, they should feel free to major in whatever interests them.

Yes, that is not a good philosophy either, somewhere there is a happy medium. I am not saying to pick something that you do not enjoy, but earning potential also has to be considered. Pretty much everyone has multiple interest, so if your first choice will not pay very well, seek an alternative that also interests you and that might pay better.

 

[ssawka]

That entirely depends on the school. An English major at the University of Chicago is going to get a job at a Wall Street firm will before, say, a finance major at the University of Indiana.

As somebody who has been on hiring committees were I've worked, we don't care what you majored in, we care how prestigious your degree is. Harsh reality, but that's life.

I guess it also depends on where you apply for jobs. On Wall Street they may care what your major was or where you went to school, but for the average job they do not care. I can only speak directly about my experience in IT, but all the places I have worked (and there have been several) they really only cared about that you had a degree and that your skills were up to date.

 

[DISdreamin']

Yes, that is not a good philosophy either, somewhere there is a happy medium. I am not saying to pick something that you do not enjoy, but earning potential also has to be considered. Pretty much everyone has multiple interest, so if your first choice will not pay very well, seek an alternative that also interests you and that might pay better.

My advice to students is always "you need to do what you love, but you also need to be gainfully employed doing it."

The truth is, it is probably unwise to do what you love at the expense of putting food on the table or a roof over your head....so you have to be sure you aren't putting yourself into that situation, especially if you'll have student loan debt.

As for college costs, yeah, they're crazy! I spent a total of 11 consecutive years in school - two at a community college, three at a state university school, and six at a private university. Total debt after all that, just over $40K - and I feel it was money well spent. I'd never have the postion I have now without that schooling, and I really enjoy what I do!

 

[kems28]

This is an interesting thread. I have to agree with several of the posters that for most people, an undergrad degree with no debt is very possible. It was my dream to go to college in the Boston area. However, my parents were adamant that I would have no debt for undergrad, and there was no way I could afford a Boston area school without taking out loans. I ended up going to a state school that ranks as one of the top 20 "best buys" in the country. I have a scholarship that covers tuition and books, and my parents pay for everything else (rent, car expenses, etc). I've supplied my own spending money by working over the summers. My parents aren't wealthy by any means, but they have saved over the years and not spent extravagently. We took vacations every year, but always went somewhere we could drive to and never stayed more than 4 days. It probably also helps that I'm an only child.

I will admit, I plan on going to a much more prestigious grad school (I'm about to enter my senior year), because without that extra degree, I really don't think I could get the job I want. However, the loans I will have to take out for grad school will still end up being less than 4 years at a private would have been. And over time, having a master's will allow me to make more anyway.

All of this to say, there may have to be some give and take from both the children and the parents, but for most people getting an undergrad degree without loans can be done.

 

[LaurenLC]

That entirely depends on the school. An English major at the University of Chicago is going to get a job at a Wall Street firm will before, say, a finance major at the University of Indiana.

As somebody who has been on hiring committees were I've worked, we don't care what you majored in, we care how prestigious your degree is. Harsh reality, but that's life.

That 'prestigious degree' can also hinder you from getting a job because people have pre-conceived notions of what you are like and what you expect. Trust me, my husband has his doctorate from the aforementioned school, it was a turn off for some employers.

 

[MAH4546]

That 'prestigious degree' can also hinder you from getting a job because people have pre-conceived notions of what you are like and what you expect. Trust me, my husband has his doctorate from the aforementioned school, it was a turn off for some employers.

I was specifically referring to undergraduate - doctorate degree is a totally different ballgame.

I have been on hiring committees that have hired sub-3.0 GPA from University of Chicago/Harvard/etc. over a 3.8 GPA from a state school. Honestly, the two schools that get easiest pass, in my experience, are MIT and University of Chicago. Literally, just by submitting your resume, you get an interview. And as long as you don't suck at interviewing, you get the job. And this has been my experience on various hiring committees I have assisted on on the East and West coast.

And yes, indeed in a specialized field like engineering, your undergraduate work matters.

But when we are talking about going into something like finance, consulting, or working at entry-level programs at major companies (Ford, Target, etc.), what you studied does not matter.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

Interesting article and very true. Dh's parents did not sign up for fin aid when he was in school (this was all 14 years ago being that he's 31 now), and took out home equity loan to pay for his school, they are STILL paying it off. As for me, I will finish my Master's with $50,000 at least in student loans next year. My payment will be outrageous. The good news is, we did things a little backwards and already have a house and two kids, and DH has no loans so I feel a little more comfortable. DH has degree in natural science that he does not even use and was unable to get a job with, and doesn't work in anything to do with that field. I do social work so its easy to finda job but with not so great pay. Sometimes I think college is a complete ripoff but sometimes a necessary factor in getting most jobs for young people.

 

[crisi]

That 'prestigious degree' can also hinder you from getting a job because people have pre-conceived notions of what you are like and what you expect. Trust me, my husband has his doctorate from the aforementioned school, it was a turn off for some employers.

I have a friend who went to Harvard for his undergrad. He's always found that Harvard closes as many doors as it opens. Yes, it opens a lot of doors - and some pretty heavy doors. But when you are just looking for a job in the Midwest, Harvard on your resume makes it tough.

 

[punkin]

I was specifically referring to undergraduate - doctorate degree is a totally different ballgame.

I have been on hiring committees that have hired sub-3.0 GPA from University of Chicago/Harvard/etc. over a 3.8 GPA from a state school. Honestly, the two schools that get easiest pass, in my experience, are MIT and University of Chicago. Literally, just by submitting your resume, you get an interview. And as long as you don't suck at interviewing, you get the job. And this has been my experience on various hiring committees I have assisted on on the East and West coast.

And yes, indeed in a specialized field like engineering, your undergraduate work matters.

But when we are talking about going into something like finance, consulting, or working at entry-level programs at major companies (Ford, Target, etc.), what you studied does not matter.

Having UChicago on my resume (undergrad) got me my first job after law school. The hiring partner specifically told me so.

I can only speak to finance, but I guarantee you that Wall Street looks for quants. Your UChicago English degree is just fine assuming you also took a LOT of Math and Statistics classes, oh and economentrics is a definite boost.

 

[barbarabini]

The amount you owe for school will directly impact your life for years to come. For women, it has the most significant impact, as it directly impacts your childbearing years.

My husband and I both knew we wanted to be lawyers, while we were in high school. Neither of us came from rich families. But both families pledged to put us through college. We both went to state schools and graduated with no debt. Thanks to our families. We knew we were on our own for law school and law school tuition is a whole different ballgame. The $ earned for a part-time job I had in college didn't make a dent in the tuition. So we both graduated at the ripe old age of 25 with over 140,000 in debt.

Next step, we clerked for judges, then we worked in private firms and got married. You make good money but you owe a lot. You also spend a lot because your never home to eat ect.

Suddenly, life was upon us and I was 30, maybe a child? The tuition payments were more than our mortgage. Had the first child, left right before giving birth and came back ASAP. Continued working into the 2nd child. Then the 3rd. Now, mid-30's -- still paying it off. Your life doesn't stop because you have the debts, you have to know how to manage it.

How did it impact our lives? Well, for two lawyers, we live in a modest house but we are in good company, we have many two lawyer families who ended in the same situation. We have been able to build savings, but we drive one newer can and an 11 year old honda. We don't have the shore house, or the boat.

My advice, as far as undergrad, spend as little as possible. Your earnings will rarely outstrip your debt for the first couple years. For grad school, don't marry a lawyer if your are becoming one.

 

[Colleen27]

Sometimes I think college is a complete ripoff but sometimes a necessary factor in getting most jobs for young people.

That's where I sit too, firmly on the fence. The social/cultural value assigned to a college education is immense, but it seems that more and more the economic value is shrinking as the cost is rising.

We're saving for college for our three, of course, but we also talk about other career paths and training options. As much as I would like to tell the kids to study what they want and not worry about the cost, I just don't think that will be a practical choice by the time my kids are grown.

 

[MrsPete]

The truth is, it is probably unwise to do what you love at the expense of putting food on the table or a roof over your head....so you have to be sure you aren't putting yourself into that situation, especially if you'll have student loan debt.

That's realistic. My youngest loves to draw, and she thinks she wants to be an artist. When she reaches high school, I'm going to have to get her to understand that's not a realistic goal. She may always love art, but the truth is that even people with top-top talent often earn zilch in the art world, and she has only mediocre ability.

She can do something with art: I could see her opening a business in which kids come in and take art lessons, I could see her teaching art in school (though that's iffy -- it'd be better to be qualified to teach art PLUS an academic subject), I could see her managing an art gallery, I could see her working in advertising or graphic design . . . but her current idea -- the idea that someone'll pay her to sketch people all day long -- isn't realistic at all.

And maybe she'll end up doing something entirely different, but I don't want her to end up in the nightmare scenerio: A college degree that can't get her a job and debt. She may end up deciding that art is a great hobby but not much of a career.

Sometimes I think college is a complete ripoff but sometimes a necessary factor in getting most jobs for young people.

I don't think it's a ripoff, but if -- as for most of us -- if the goal is to become employable, it's important to major in something that's likely to pay. I know that I've "had back" every penny I spent on my education and more (many times over, and I expect to work another 13 years). It's important not to put yourself in a situation where -- as someone else said -- your debt outstrips your earnings.

 

[crisi]

Plumber. They should all be plumbers. My dad always said he wanted a plumber, a car mechanic and an electrician (he got a project manager, a nursing adminstrator, and a sales person).

College as a middle class standard is really a pretty recent construct made possible by the GI Bill and the importance first and second generation immigrants placed on education - plus the move from the farm. Especially a liberal arts sort of education. And as education became "standard" the types of jobs that required a college degree expanded. But it will shift again.

 

[ShannonMB]

.
How did it impact our lives? Well, for two lawyers, we live in a modest house but we are in good company, we have many two lawyer families who ended in the same situation. We have been able to build savings, but we drive one newer can and an 11 year old honda. We don't have the shore house, or the boat.

I haven't read all the replies, but I will as I find this topic really interesting. This stuck out to me, though.

I think even if you are a highly paid professional, it's okay to have some loans, a modest home and no shore house or boat yet in your 30s. The key is to manage your money well until you pay off your loans like you guys are, maybe sacrifice and not "keep up with the Joneses". Part of the problem I think these days, is that kids from professional, fairly well-to-do families think that their parents were sitting as pretty as they are now right out of college, and always had the nice house and boat, etc. They don't realize that a lot of times it took a lot of hard work, years, and sacrifice to GET to that point. Consequently, they think they should be able to buy the big house, shore house, boat, etc as soon as they graduate. That instant gratification thing. They grew up really nicely and don't think they should have to live in that seedy apartment which is all they can afford right out of college so they can get those loans paid off. Definitely not saying that's what YOU are thinking! But I do think lots of our kids are spoiled these days and have less of a concept of "nose to the grindstone" to work for the nice things you will have later in life. FWIW.

The key for me is what you are taking loans out for. I totally see the intellectual benefit of getting that liberal arts degree, and I would love for DD to be able to pursue her passions. However, when it comes down to taking out thousands of dollars in loans, in my mind it really better translate to a better-than-average opportunity to make a good living when you are done. I think Clark Howard on CNN said it best when he said try to keep the loans down to around what you can reasonably expect to make in one year after college. That seems like a reasonable financial investment to make.

 

[bettymae1121]

Plumber. They should all be plumbers. My dad always said he wanted a plumber, a car mechanic and an electrician (he got a project manager, a nursing adminstrator, and a sales person).

Seriously, I'm telling any future children I have to be plumbers. They should take classes in small business administration (or whatever you take if you want to start your own business) and then go to trade school. Once they have enough expericane in the trade, they should open their own shop. Plumbers can't be outsourced and to a certain extent are recession proof. If a home owner has a roof leak, they'll use a bucket. If they have an electric problem, they'll use a candle. If the pipe in the basement bursts, their calling a plumber! A friend of my father's son opened his own plumbing business with a friend about 20 years ago. There are doing very well, and while the downturn has effected them, they're still doing okay.

 

[DawnM]

I am very fortunate to have a husband who grew up in a family where the parents taught him to fix things around the house and how to build.

We have renovated 3 houses now and sold them at a good profit. Dh has done 90% of the work himself. He is also teaching our boys how to do the work.

On the other hand, while I am fine with my boys wanting to be plumbers, I personally wouldn't enjoy it and I do want them to do something they enjoy.
If they enjoy plumbing, great.....but I do want to direct them to their field of interest.

Dawn

Seriously, I'm telling any future children I have to be plumbers. They should take classes in small business administration (or whatever you take if you want to start your own business) and then go to trade school. Once they have enough expericane in the trade, they should open their own shop. Plumbers can't be outsourced and to a certain extent are recession proof. If a home owner has a roof leak, they'll use a bucket. If they have an electric problem, they'll use a candle. If the pipe in the basement bursts, their calling a plumber! A friend of my father's son opened his own plumbing business with a friend about 20 years ago. There are doing very well, and while the downturn has effected them, they're still doing okay.

 

[DawnM]

I may not be hitting the mark here, but DH is in the field of finance and it DOES indeed matter what you studied as well as where.

Everyone at his level has to have an MA in the field.

Everyone hired for the first time out of college at entry level must at least have a degree in the field and have plans to continue school.

It also matters where you studied, which is why we made sure his MA was from a prestigious school for that field of study.

They won't even look at someone from a no name school, but they also won't look at anyone from a good school who didn't major in some business, finance, tax, or related field.

Dawn

But when we are talking about going into something like finance, consulting, or working at entry-level programs at major companies (Ford, Target, etc.), what you studied does not matter.

 

[barbarabini]

Its true, I think a lot of young people today see what their parents have and don't realize it took a long time and a lot of work to get there. (and that they won't get it right out of school).

Although, I would be lying if I didn't admit that I would have a shore house in my early thirties. But, when I thought of that in law school, admittedly, I didn't think of having kids and having to make sure we were financially secure for them. So, in essence, my kids are my shore house.

I also didn't think of how high the NJ real estate taxes would be that go along with home ownership.