Article: Is Disney Dissing the Disabled?

[Vidia2]

Get ready for the thread to close.

Probably for the best, at this point.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I'm not sure how to read your answer as hostile or understanding, but generally the answer is DON'T GO. Can you imagine the complaints and dirty looks I's get otherwise if we spent a half hour in line like we do at a red light? I know I'd be annoyed. But I'm sure you'll read that as my feeling entitled again which was never my point. I've just been trying to explain.

No, no not hostile at all. Just discussing. Bringing your points back around, bc they can be used for either side of the discussion.

My point in it, which you also somewhat made...is that if a child can wait in other places in life, then they should be able to wait somewhat in WDW as well.

Saying they can wait everywhere in the free world, or they can't but we make adjustments for them, but they or I can't do that while in WDW, is not really a valid point. It's contradictory.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Finally, I again want to hear some concrete examples of how other people's trips have been negatively affected by people using the GAC. How waiting 30seconds or less for my son is ruining your trip. Heck, just ONE example would be great. Because so far all I see is a bunch of bitter people saying "If I can't get that "benefit" then neither should anyone else! Neener, neener, neener!" Whatever someone with such little sympathy for others thinks about me and my posts, I could not possibly care less.

No problem. The worst? We waited in line at Dumbo while a little boy and his mom rode SEVEN times. Meaning that my DD, who was four at the time, watched a kid skip right to the front of the line and ride SEVEN times while she waited to ride once. Every time the ride stopped, he started screaming, so he would sit there, and ride again. When the CM finally told the mom that they had to get off, everyone had to wait for him to be practically dragged, kicking and screaming, from the ride.

Same trip, we watched as another kid rode Buzz Lightyear three times, again while we waited to ride it even once. My DD loved that ride, but autistic or not, it would have never occurred to me to allow her to ride it again when there was an hour long wait for others to ride.

We've seen the same thing, numerous times at Snow White, Peter Pan, Tea Cups, Indy Racing.

Just because you've never done it doesn't mean it doesn't happen - a lot.

 

[Vidia2]

Umm...yes you did. See the first quote I made.

I agree with you autism is a real disability, but the excuse of my kid can't wait and has to ride first...that is where I draw the line. Sure they don't get it, neither do 3 year olds or 5 year olds, or speech impaired people, or kids with intellectual impairment. Waiting is a virtue that all need to learn, special needs or not.

I think you are speaking from some preconceived idea and you've misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I don't think there is anything anyone can say that would make you feel better about this situation. Maybe you should address your concerns with Disney.

 

[karice2]

They can't understand that it is not a superior experience to theirs because they have no life basis in order to compare. So for them the GAC access is a superior experience when compared to their access. If they had to take on the baggage that came with the access then maybe they would change their tune?

This is an unfair indictment of people that disagree with your position. Throwing down the gauntlet of my life is worse than anyone else's completely invalidates any rational argument that one can make. Asking for compassion and empathy does not mean that you get to stomp over the feelings of someone that is feeling disenfranchised by an admittedly superior vacation experience.

I have traveled alone and with someone with disabilities. I do have a life basis to compare it with. From completely solo unencumbered trips (where I would let peopel get in front if a kid was having a melt down) to traveling with a person with a heart that only works 13% and the side effects from a major stroke in the span of 10 months.

We muddle through and accept what is available to us. We don't ask for anything that is not offered to anyone that is able bodied. We figure out a plan that fits his limitations and keep it moving.

When I look at this thread, I see a lot of people who want to be treated like Unicorns for one week because they are able to have some semblance of normalcy in their lives. Here's the truth, everyone is a Unicorn Snowflake and no one gets to dictate what normal is for another person.

At least you chose to have kids. I got my dad at the prime of my single life and it is an honor and privilege to make this journey with him everyday, front of the line pass or not.

Just in case you were wondering, we don't get a GAC.

Old Army Saying "Suck it up and drive on."

 

[KGK]

So the "discussion" goes on for page after page. And the (good) people at Disney just sit back and smile.

For those that need help, I'm sure Disney will find a way. They are, perhaps, one of the most compassionate companies ever.

For those of you so loudly complaining about a superior experience and no child should be given special treatment; you are correct and Disney will find a way to make these people have the same miserable experience that you do. (Except that they know how to find the good parts of life).

Keep calm and get in line. Disney will take care of us all.

 

[OurBigTrip]

So the "discussion" goes on for page after page. And the (good) people at Disney just sit back and smile.

For those that need help, I'm sure Disney will find a way. They are, perhaps, one of the most compassionate companies ever.

For those of you so loudly complaining about a superior experience and no child should be given special treatment; you are correct and Disney will find a way to make these people have the same miserable experience that you do. (Except that they know how to find the good parts of life).

Keep calm and get in line. Disney will take care of us all.

No one has said that some children shouldn't have special treatment. The plan to have people not wait in line but in a more comfortable place is special treatment, and it has no negative impact on anyone else.

 

[Schmeck]

Probably not, since that section doesn't say what you think it does. I've included that and the one after so that everyone know what you're referring to.



Section ii says it is discriminatory to offer an accommodation on the basis of disability that is not equal. It does not say it can not be better than what is offered other individuals.

Section iii says you can't provide a separate or different accommodation unless you do so in a way that is as effective.


You could argue that making a disabled person have to come back to a ride is in violation because someone in a regular line doesn't have to do that. I wonder if that's why they're doing wait time minus 15 minutes.

ii) Participation in unequal benefit It shall be discriminatory to afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals.

Unlimited access is not equal as it is not offered to other individuals.

 

[MidwayState]

Just think for a minute. Even if there are THOUSANDS of people using a GAC in WDW, they are NOT all standing in the same ride line. They are spread out over four parks, over 12-hr days. We went with a GAC and saw at most ONE other person with a GAC in line with us at any ride. We lengthened the wait of those in the standby line by about 30 seconds. Sorry, but I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about that.

If this were the case then we wouldn't be having a conversation about changes being made to the GAC to stop abuse. Disney isn't stupid enough to do a complete overhaul of a system because people are being held up for 30 seconds. smh.

 

[Vidia2]

When someone is getting FOTL access and riding as many times as they want, with no wait, that most certainly is a superior experience.

My family has never gone to the front of the line, nor do we repeat rides.

You could have all of these things though, if you go during off season and use a good touring plan.

 

[Vidia2]

So the "discussion" goes on for page after page. And the (good) people at Disney just sit back and smile.

For those that need help, I'm sure Disney will find a way. They are, perhaps, one of the most compassionate companies ever.

For those of you so loudly complaining about a superior experience and no child should be given special treatment; you are correct and Disney will find a way to make these people have the same miserable experience that you do. (Except that they know how to find the good parts of life).

Keep calm and get in line. Disney will take care of us all.

Exactly this.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Firstly, yes, it absolutely is ignorant to suggest that parents of children with a disability must be somehow making it out to sound worse than it is because how do they manage in everyday life otherwise. That is pretty much exactly what your post boiled down to, and yes, it is an ignorant and insensitive thing to say. You might also notice that I was talking about your POST being ignorant, not you, so no name-calling involved.

Really? I think it's telling that you are the only person in this whole thread thus far to make the argument that someone else's opinion on the matter is ignorant. Everyone else seems to be giving relevant answers.

Secondly, you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that I stated that THIS NEW SYSTEM WILL NOT IMPACT ME. My son should be fine with waiting outside a line anyway, but given that we visit at slow times, we will likely be allowed directly through the FP line (avoiding the queue) more times than not. I specifically said that I am particularly concerned about children with critical illnesses - you know, those who are just as sick as a Wish kid but didn't get chosen as one.

I am not ignoring that you said that. Great, then you won't have a problem with the new system. What is your beef then? I don't understand, bc my beef is not with you obviously if that is the case.

Thirdly, someone asked why I can't wait in a 15min line because the GAC was never supposed to be a FOTL pass. IT'S NOT. The GAC was supposed to allow people to skip the regular queue, and that is why we use it. The supposedly great "interactive" parts of various queues are horrible for my son. TSMM freaked him out so badly he was climbing up my husband. Pooh had us blocking the line as he became obsessed with the dripping honey screens. If that's not a good enough reason for you, well, that's just too bad. Oh, and we DID wait in lines, even when using the GAC. Even when we got to the head of the FP line, we still waited for people in the standby line to board ahead of us.

No one here has complained about separate wait areas, or times given to return to the FP. That is not the issue. The issue is the ones who say their kid needs to ride NOW and 5 times in a row at least. Also, if you did wait in line even when using the GAC, as a lot of people are saying...then you can't turn around and be upset bc DAS will not provide immediate access. Again, that is contradictory.
Honestly, you and I actually agree on a lot of things, based on what you wrote in the above paragraph.

Finally, I again want to hear some concrete examples of how other people's trips have been negatively affected by people using the GAC. How waiting 30seconds or less for my son is ruining your trip. Heck, just ONE example would be great. Because so far all I see is a bunch of bitter people saying "If I can't get that "benefit" then neither should anyone else! Neener, neener, neener!" Whatever someone with such little sympathy for others thinks about me and my posts, I could not possibly care less.

Yep, that is right. I am a big old meanie, who has no compassion and sympathy for others, bc I don't think that every disabled child that is not capable of waiting in line should have immediate access. Oh wait...maybe it's bc I am a deadbeat dad with a special needs child that I abandoned. I think it's hilarious how the pro GACers come up with such absurd presumptions or retorts, to explain away their entitlement. You hit the nail on the head with that one. I am a disabled person with a special needs child who hates the entire disabled population. Yeah, that sounds right.

.

 

[OurBigTrip]

My family has never gone to the front of the line, nor do we repeat rides.

You could have all of these things though, if you go during off season and use a good touring plan.

We have kids in school, so we can't go during the off-seasons.

Of course, the same could be said for you - go during off season and use a good touring plan, then you won't need a DAS.

 

[Schmeck]

Then you're violating section ii.

It might help if you read and understood the legal document you're quoting.

No, waiting for your turn is not in violation of the ADA. There are 24 hours in the day for everyone, aren't there? I've yet to find anything in the ADA that states that people do not have to wait for their turn. It only states that everyone, no matter what their ability, gets the opportunity for access, and that having a disability does not get anyone superior access.

 

[MidwayState]

I've been thinking on this while I was eating my dinner. One thing I realized is there has been lots of responses to those who say their child can not wait in line, saying that there are lots of times in everyday life you have to wait...even examples given. However, no one seems to have an answer to that. Which is very convenient, IMO.

So, I am putting it out there. If your child can not wait even 15 minutes in line to ride an attraction at WDW, then what do you do at home when.....

-You have to wait at a stop light? Do you crash into cars, bc your child can't wait? Or run over pedestrians bc god forbid, your child can't wait!

-You have to wait in line at the grocery store?

- Do you provide Christmas or Bdays, or Halloween every day of the year, bc the child can't wait for that one day a year?

-Your cooking dinner and your child wants it now? Or your waiting at a restaurant to be served? Should they get theirs cooked before everyone else at the restaurant, bc they have special needs?

-your child has to use the bathroom and it's occupied? Do you have a bathroom FP?

-when they are at the playground and there is a line for the slide, swings, etc? Do you run over and yell that your child should be first bc they don't understand?

These are just a few examples, and yes some are on the extreme side, but apply none the less.

I assume it hasn't been directly answered and skipped over numerous times, bc the answer is...they wait. Which is in direct contradiction to saying they can't wait at WDW. Thus, you don't have a leg to stand on and it's easier to just not respond to valid, thought out, and common sense questions.

Sure, you can answer with the same old same old of...but we are on vacation, and it's the one place where we can participate like regular folks. Except there is a problem with that theory...regular folks don't get front of the line/immediate access...AND just bc your on vacation doesn't mean life, learning, and parenting cease to exist.

Even in the special needs program my DD is in at school, she has to wait her turn to answer, to play games, to get her lunch, to go to recess, to sharpen her pencil...I could go on and on. If they are teaching it in school, then it must be an important life skill that professionals feel need to be taught. They also wouldn't bother to teach it, if it can't be learned.

you are absolutely right. Not one person seems to be able to explain why at WDW their child absolutely can NOT wait for anything whatsoever. If this is the truth then all I can picture is a life exactly like the movie Helen Keller....but then again, even SHE was capable of learning. I just can't make heads or tails of it. I would have more respect for people if they would just admit, "Dang, busted! I'm really going to miss the front of the line pass because I didn't have to think twice about anything more than me and mine." and be done with it because this would be the truth. Heck, I'd be more than a little put out too if I got to tour Disney like a VIP and they snatched that rug out from under me.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Actually I'm saying those who think going in the FP lane ( it's not a FOTL card) means that your child won't flip out, will behave like magic, will become normal and will always enjoy the experience.

Yep, just like NT kids don't flip out and behave like magic....not. All kids have meltdowns. I am not saying they won't flip out or meltdown, I am saying that those with kids that have that issue will need to figure out a new way to tour the park...just like those with NT kids who flip out, or even those of us who have disabled children and don't utilize the GAC/DAS.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

This is an unfair indictment of people that disagree with your position. Throwing down the gauntlet of my life is worse than anyone else's completely invalidates any rational argument that one can make. Asking for compassion and empathy does not mean that you get to stomp over the feelings of someone that is feeling disenfranchised by an admittedly superior vacation experience.

I have traveled alone and with someone with disabilities. I do have a life basis to compare it with. From completely solo unencumbered trips (where I would let peopel get in front if a kid was having a melt down) to traveling with a person with a heart that only works 13% and the side effects from a major stroke in the span of 10 months.

We muddle through and accept what is available to us. We don't ask for anything that is not offered to anyone that is able bodied. We figure out a plan that fits his limitations and keep it moving.

When I look at this thread, I see a lot of people who want to be treated like Unicorns for one week because they are able to have some semblance of normalcy in their lives. Here's the truth, everyone is a Unicorn Snowflake and no one gets to dictate what normal is for another person.

At least you chose to have kids. I got my dad at the prime of my single life and it is an honor and privilege to make this journey with him everyday, front of the line pass or not.

Just in case you were wondering, we don't get a GAC.

Old Army Saying "Suck it up and drive on."

I finally can respond to you! Yay!

All I want to say is....

Can you be my new bff? Thank you for your words.

 

[delmar411]

Yep, just like NT kids don't flip out and behave like magic....not. All kids have meltdowns. I am not saying they won't flip out or meltdown, I am saying that those with kids that have that issue will need to figure out a new way to tour the park...just like those with NT kids who flip out, or even those of us who have disabled children and don't utilize the GAC/DAS.

I already have my plan in place as I'm local and go to the park every sat or sun for a couple hours with YDD, I'll be over there on Wednesday to discuss with GR how this all works and get a tutorial of sorts so I can work to prep her for Sat. I have FP+, I have a stack of expired room keys that pull paper FP and if she is determined to go to HS (a park where she does loop TOT and RNRC) then I think I have a touring plan that will allow for her to ride multiple times w/o using the DAS if the return times are not compatible.

If it is true that they could accommodate her need to loop those 2 rides then we should hopefully be golden until they pull out the paper FP machines. It will require a TON of work and time on my end but as long as this is the system then this is what we have to work with.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

My family has never gone to the front of the line, nor do we repeat rides.

You could have all of these things though, if you go during off season and use a good touring plan.

Then you should have no offense taken with what us anti GACers are saying. It has been said over and over again, the issue is FOTL access and repeated rides. If you don't do that, then the beef is not with you. Unfortunately, there have been many posts with people saying/admitting that they do have FOTL access, repeat rides 8 times over, and are pissed as hell they won't be able to do that anymore.

You are 100% correct about planning helping you to have some of these things without using a GAC/DAS. Which is what my family does. Again, this is a statement that can be applied either way. Not only that, but this is something that everyone can do equally. We can all plan accordingly to our needs. People getting FOTL bc of a GAC/DAS for a reason that a lot of children have an issue with, is not equal.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I already have my plan in place as I'm local and go to the park every sat or sun for a couple hours with YDD, I'll be over there on Wednesday to discuss with GR how this all works and get a tutorial of sorts so I can work to prep her for Sat. I have FP+, I have a stack of expired room keys that pull paper FP and if she is determined to go to HS (a park where she does loop TOT and RNRC) then I think I have a touring plan that will allow for her to ride multiple times w/o using the DAS if the return times are not compatible.

If it is true that they could accommodate her need to loop those 2 rides then we should hopefully be golden until they pull out the paper FP machines. It will require a TON of work and time on my end but as long as this is the system then this is what we have to work with.

So you have no problem with her riding multiple times with no wait while other kids have to wait? Even if it takes using expired room keys to make it work?

Nice.