Arsenic in Apple Juice

[TandT]

I agree. It's about going nuts about it too. This was "OMG Dr. Oz says my stuff is killing us so I threw it all away and ran out same day to buy new stuff". That is ridiculous behavior IMO. By all means use it as food for thought, research sources other than Dr Oz and ask questions..don't run throw everything in the trash and go buy new stuff based on a TV Dr.

Now it does appear the FDA is saying he is basically wrong in this case as he is not appropriately using the data (as they are saying "total arsenic" is not an accurate representation because it doesn't break down if it is the dangerous or naturally occurring kind) or explaining it properly and is just fearmongering.

He is NOT just a "TV DOCTOR"

Oz has been a professor at the department of Surgery at Columbia University since 2001. He directs the Cardiovascular Institute and Complementary Medicine Program at New York-Presbyterian Hospital. His research interests include heart replacement surgery, minimally invasive cardiac surgery, and health care policy. With his collaborators, he has authored over 400 research papers, book chapters and medical books and has received several patents. He performs around 250 heart operations annually.
Oz is the founder and chairman of HealthCorps, a non-profit organization that pays a small stipend to recent college graduates to spend two years in high schools mentoring students about health, nutrition, and fitness.

He won the Gross Surgical Research Scholarship. He was listed in “Doctors of the Year” by Hippocrates magazine and in “Healers of the Millennium” by Healthy Living magazine. Oz is annually listed in the Castle Connolly Guide of the top United States doctors, as well as other ranking groups.


Sounds like a QUACK to me

 

[Coconut36]

And QUACKS don't save people's lives ......he is a very respected heart surgeon from NY Presbyterian Hospital...which is one of the top hospitals in the country.

Seriously? OK right there tells me something. Ummm..why is a heart surgeon suddenly an expert on arsenic in apple juice and teflon on pans? He's a heart surgeon..that is his area of expertise. To try claim he is credible or without question because of this is laughable to say the least. If he was focused on cardiac issues and his area of expertise I would say I see your point..but babbling about arsenic in apple juice and telling everyone their housewares are killing them is not where his expertise lies and being a cardiac surgeon does not make him magically know all there is to know about everything.

 

[cornflake]

Yes..I meant to type nitrites... Nitrate is harmless, but it can convert to nitrite, which can form nitrosamines, a powerful cancer-causing chemical, in your body.

Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) is actually a proven neurotransmitter that over-stimulates brain activity. This response can lead to migraine headaches, upset stomachs, diarrhea, irritable bowel syndrome, panic attacks, heart palpitations, shortness of breath, mood swings, lethargy, insomnia, and more.

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has studied the effects of MSG for decades. The FDA acknowledges that ill effects have been reported in many studies. However, the chemical has not yet been banned or eliminated.

IF something is deemed "natural occurring" still does NOT make it safe.

And QUACKS don't save people's lives ......he is a very respected heart surgeon from NY Presbyterian Hospital...which is one of the top hospitals in the country.

Oy vey iz mir.

The reason MSG hasn't been banned is because there'd be hardly any food left and because the reports of people getting ill from it are largely, like the lactose intolerance crowd, hysteria, not reality.

Do you know what has a ridiculous amount of MSG? Parmesan cheese. Other cheeses also contain glutemates. As do tomatoes, mushrooms, some meat things, nearly every saucey condiment in existance, etc., etc. - as well as yeast products, because glutemates are a byproduct of fermentation.

Hence, MSG also in soy and soy products and soy-based flavourings. Tons of meat substitute stuff has lots of MSG because of the soy, like TVP. Marmite? Pretty much straight MSG. Yet I've never heard of people going on about they get ill from it, just from Chinese food.

Most of what I've heard about studies using MSG show no issues, except the occasional deal when some lab animals have been given massive doses. I know there have been studies in which they gave people who claimed they were sensitive to MSG lots of straight MSG and it did nothing.

Same as the lactose thing and sugar/hyperactivity thing, testing seems to show that it's psychologically-driven, not physiologically.

 

[Coconut36]

He is NOT just a "TV DOCTOR"

Oz has been a professor at the department of Surgery at Columbia University since 2001. He directs the Cardiovascular Institute and Complementary Medicine Program at New York-Presbyterian Hospital. His research interests include heart replacement surgery, minimally invasive cardiac surgery, and health care policy. With his collaborators, he has authored over 400 research papers, book chapters and medical books and has received several patents. He performs around 250 heart operations annually.
Oz is the founder and chairman of HealthCorps, a non-profit organization that pays a small stipend to recent college graduates to spend two years in high schools mentoring students about health, nutrition, and fitness.

He won the Gross Surgical Research Scholarship. He was listed in “Doctors of the Year” by Hippocrates magazine and in “Healers of the Millennium” by Healthy Living magazine. Oz is annually listed in the Castle Connolly Guide of the top United States doctors, as well as other ranking groups.


Sounds like a QUACK to me

Hey..put your faith in what the cardiac surgeon tells you about things utterly unrelated to that field if that makes you happy. Me I don't care what his creds might be..he is a media hound and has been questioned more than once for his on air advice as he is NOT an expert in every aspect of medicine. To act as if he is beyond reproach because he is a cardiac surgeon and got some magazine awards is laughable to me. If what he discussed was related to his field I might (and I stress might) listen..but really..by your logic my OB could start advising me and others on things related to neurological issues or skin lesions or foot problems because she's a Dr so she must be an expert in all other fields of medicine right? Because apparently Dr Oz the cardiac surgeon is all knowing huh?

 

[TandT]

Seriously? OK right there tells me something. Ummm..why is a heart surgeon suddenly an expert on arsenic in apple juice and teflon on pans? He's a heart surgeon..that is his area of expertise. To try claim he is credible or without question because of this is laughable to say the least. If he was focused on cardiac issues and his area of expertise I would say I see your point..but babbling about arsenic in apple juice and telling everyone their housewares are killing them is not where his expertise lies and being a cardiac surgeon does not make him magically know all there is to know about everything.

How many years of medical school and experience do you think he has? Just b/c you specialize in a certain field of medicine, does not make you ignorant of other medical issues. These doctors have to train in ALL aspects of medicine before they even graduate from medical school.... I know.... I grew up in a family full of doctors. Besides, not everybody is one dimensional. Just saying.....


AND I am not saying he knows EVERYTHING... I have read tons of reports about what the FDA has done and NOT done. It's sad really.... innocent people getting sick for no reason but allowing these companies to get rich. In the end, it's all about the $$$. When it compromises the health of others, that's when I get upset.

 

[hambirg]

I can't imagine how little someone could eat being sensitive to MSG. That'd be really tough. Most processed food and ... well, I loves me some cheese. That'd suck.

The lactose thing (and I personally think gluten but I've seen less science to support that), is mostly bunk. People think they're intolerant but they're not.

Well, it's a sensitivity. I can eat a slice of cheese on a sandwich, but much more than that. . . I have to watch for hydrolyzed yeast as a high up ingredient, but don't have to avoid it entirely.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the lactose. As Chris Rock said, I'm sure no starving Africans are complaining about being lactose intolerant. But I did work with a severely, profoundly disabled girl that was. It took us awhile to figure out what was causing the massive blow outs after lunch that required us to strip down all of her clothes and put her in the shower. She would have NO concept of what lactose intolerance even was, but when we limited her milk intake at lunch. . ..no more blow outs.

So while I agree that a lot is hype, I do know that there is truth to some of it. I'm also sensitive to latex. Gloves would leave my skin red and irritated, but it wasn't until I went to the dentist and the rubber dam left a second degree burn on my face, that I put it all together. I don't think I'm allergic like I'm going to go into anaphylactic shock, but sensitive? Oh yeah!

 

[cornflake]

What Coconut said.

He may not be a quack in his given field, I dunno. Drew Pinsky may be a fine internist.

When he plays psychologist and addiction specialist on tv, however, he's an offensively abominable, dangerous quack. He holds no degree in psychology, he demonstrates practices that go against basic psychological training and theory and yet acts like he has any idea what the heck he's doing. Quackity quack quack.

Oz may be a fine cardiologist. This does not qualify him to go on about the supposed dangers from the chemical makeup of processed food products.

I wasn't meaning to suggest all lactose intolerance is bogus, I know someone - not asian - who was diagnosed with it as well. It took months to figure it out as her symptomolgy was quite severe and it was diagnosed through testing. The numbers of people who claim they're lactose intolerant however... .well, many a study has given those people lactose and, same as the sugar/hyperactivity and MSG and etc., studies, mostly, de nada.

 

[Coconut36]

How many years of medical school and experience do you think he has? Just b/c you specialize in a certain field of medicine, does not make you ignorant of other medical issues. These doctors have to train in ALL aspects of medicine before they even graduate from medical school.... I know.... I grew up in a family full of doctors. Besides, not everybody is one dimensional. Just saying.....

Of course you grew up in a family of Drs and they are all experts in all aspects of medicine like Dr Oz apparently is, right? I think we all "get" what medical school is and even those of us that don't have a "family full of Drs" know that you don't go see a Neurologist to deliver your baby or a Dermatologist to treat your migraines..you go to the Dr that has the medical expertise in that field because "all aspects" of medicine does not make them an expert in all fields and all aspects of medicine..it means they have some general knowledge but not enough to treat/handle things outside their field.

How many years of medical school did he have? Who cares..how much of that and his training is specific to cardiac medicine?

Like I said..apparently all Drs are experts in everything and I will start seeing my Podiatrist for my migraines and my OB for skin cancer because how many years of medical school did they have? About the same as Dr Oz so they must know everything about everything too and if he can advise people on things utterly unrelated to his area of work than they can too.

 

[cornflake]

Of course you grew up in a family of Drs and they are all experts in all aspects of medicine like Dr Oz apparently is, right?

How many years of medical school did he have? Who cares..how much of that and his training is specific to cardiac medicine?

Like I said..apparently all Drs are experts in everything and I will start seeing my Podiatrist for my migraines and my OB for skin cancer because how many years of medical school did they have? About the same as Dr Oz so they must know everything about everything too and if he can advise people on things utterly unrelated to his area of work than they can too.

Seriously. A rotation is not in any way the same as a specialization.

However, I know of no med school rotation that addresses the components of compounds in processed juice. Not his area.

 

[hambirg]

Seriously? OK right there tells me something. Ummm..why is a heart surgeon suddenly an expert on arsenic in apple juice and teflon on pans? He's a heart surgeon..that is his area of expertise. To try claim he is credible or without question because of this is laughable to say the least. If he was focused on cardiac issues and his area of expertise I would say I see your point..but babbling about arsenic in apple juice and telling everyone their housewares are killing them is not where his expertise lies and being a cardiac surgeon does not make him magically know all there is to know about everything.

Because long term arsenic exposure contributes to hypertension. This is known. Maybe he is concerned about exposure and consumption that might be contributing to heart disease.

 

[Coconut36]

Well, it's a sensitivity. I can eat a slice of cheese on a sandwich, but much more than that. . . I have to watch for hydrolyzed yeast as a high up ingredient, but don't have to avoid it entirely.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the lactose. As Chris Rock said, I'm sure no starving Africans are complaining about being lactose intolerant. But I did work with a severely, profoundly disabled girl that was. It took us awhile to figure out what was causing the massive blow outs after lunch that required us to strip down all of her clothes and put her in the shower. She would have NO concept of what lactose intolerance even was, but when we limited her milk intake at lunch. . ..no more blow outs.

So while I agree that a lot is hype, I do know that there is truth to some of it. I'm also sensitive to latex. Gloves would leave my skin red and irritated, but it wasn't until I went to the dentist and the rubber dam left a second degree burn on my face, that I put it all together. I don't think I'm allergic like I'm going to go into anaphylactic shock, but sensitive? Oh yeah!

Why couldn't it be an intolerance to dairy proteins or a dairy allergy vs lactose intolerance? It is not IMO as simple as saying "well they don't have this problem now that they don't have milk thus it is lactose intolerance" because it could just as easily be a dairy allergy or protein intolerance and removing milk addresses the issue.

There are other issues that can result in a reaction to milk or other dairy products that has nothing to do with lactose at all and has to do with the proteins themselves..milk has the highest most intense concentration of dairy proteins of all dairy products..thus one who is sensitive or allergic will likely react most severely to milk but might be able to consume other dairy like cheese/yogurt where the proteins are broken down more and more easily digested.

 

[Coconut36]

Because long term arsenic exposure contributes to hypertension. This is known. Maybe he is concerned about exposure and consumption that might be contributing to heart disease.

And he just broke the story on this despite no evidence that arsenic in apple juice has resulted in cardiac problems or hypertension? In all the years people have been consuming apple juice (and not dying or becoming ill from arsenic poisoning I might add) we wouldn't have some sort of credible data linking apple juice to some sort of heart disease? I am by no means an expert but I fail to see how his area of expertise makes him an "authority" (who has basically been discredited in relation to the apple juice) in the components of juice.

 

[TandT]

Hey..put your faith in what the cardiac surgeon tells you about things utterly unrelated to that field if that makes you happy. Me I don't care what his creds might be..he is a media hound and has been questioned more than once for his on air advice as he is NOT an expert in every aspect of medicine. To act as if he is beyond reproach because he is a cardiac surgeon and got some magazine awards is laughable to me. If what he discussed was related to his field I might (and I stress might) listen..but really..by your logic my OB could start advising me and others on things related to neurological issues or skin lesions or foot problems because she's a Dr so she must be an expert in all other fields of medicine right? Because apparently Dr Oz the cardiac surgeon is all knowing huh?

OK.....so I guess we shall have to AGREE to DISAGREE...... BUT Dr.OZ isn't the only person I put my "trust" in. I have heard these things before and seen for myself results that would question your opinion.

 

[cornflake]

Because long term arsenic exposure contributes to hypertension. This is known. Maybe he is concerned about exposure and consumption that might be contributing to heart disease.

In toddlers?

I don't know that many adults consume a lot of apple juice on the regular.

 

[TandT]

Of course you grew up in a family of Drs and they are all experts in all aspects of medicine like Dr Oz apparently is, right? I think we all "get" what medical school is and even those of us that don't have a "family full of Drs" know that you don't go see a Neurologist to deliver your baby or a Dermatologist to treat your migraines..you go to the Dr that has the medical expertise in that field because "all aspects" of medicine does not make them an expert in all fields and all aspects of medicine..it means they have some general knowledge but not enough to treat/handle things outside their field.

How many years of medical school did he have? Who cares..how much of that and his training is specific to cardiac medicine?

Like I said..apparently all Drs are experts in everything and I will start seeing my Podiatrist for my migraines and my OB for skin cancer because how many years of medical school did they have? About the same as Dr Oz so they must know everything about everything too and if he can advise people on things utterly unrelated to his area of work than they can too.

Ok.... all that sounds good...but I have to ask you... How do you know how much training he has received? I have a really hard time believing that he is just making all of this stuff up. Have u ever even watched his show? There are ALOT of truths to what he is saying.

 

[YodaGirl]

Because long term arsenic exposure contributes to hypertension. This is known. Maybe he is concerned about exposure and consumption that might be contributing to heart disease.

Which still raises the question that I asked earlier...

If he is so concerned about the arsenic level in apple juice, why did he say that he is still going to allow his children to drink it?

 

[TandT]

Of course you grew up in a family of Drs and they are all experts in all aspects of medicine like Dr Oz apparently is, right? I think we all "get" what medical school is and even those of us that don't have a "family full of Drs" know that you don't go see a Neurologist to deliver your baby or a Dermatologist to treat your migraines..you go to the Dr that has the medical expertise in that field because "all aspects" of medicine does not make them an expert in all fields and all aspects of medicine..it means they have some general knowledge but not enough to treat/handle things outside their field.

How many years of medical school did he have? Who cares..how much of that and his training is specific to cardiac medicine?

Like I said..apparently all Drs are experts in everything and I will start seeing my Podiatrist for my migraines and my OB for skin cancer because how many years of medical school did they have? About the same as Dr Oz so they must know everything about everything too and if he can advise people on things utterly unrelated to his area of work than they can too.

Actually true story..... my OB DID catch skin cancer stage 0 on my buttock area....sorry if TMI....but she caught it AFTER I had my full body exam with my dermatologist the month before. My dermatologist missed it.

 

[hambirg]

Why couldn't it be an intolerance to dairy proteins or a dairy allergy vs lactose intolerance? It is not IMO as simple as saying "well they don't have this problem now that they don't have milk thus it is lactose intolerance" because it could just as easily be a dairy allergy or protein intolerance and removing milk addresses the issue.

There are other issues that can result in a reaction to milk or other dairy products that has nothing to do with lactose at all and has to do with the proteins themselves..milk has the highest most intense concentration of dairy proteins of all dairy products..thus one who is sensitive or allergic will likely react most severely to milk but might be able to consume other dairy like cheese/yogurt where the proteins are broken down more and more easily digested.

Uh. . .lactose is a nucleic acid. I'm not sure why they don't call it a dairy protein intolerance. . .maybe because lactose intolerance is caused by the lack of the enzyme lactase, that helps digest lactose. When lactose passes into the intestines undigested it ferments there, producing copious amounts of gas and such. That's probably why they don't call it any of those other things.

A true milk protein allergy would cause an allergic reaction. . .like anaphylactic shock.

ETA-not trying to be snarky, but you do realize that yogurt and cheese have enzymes added to them pre-digestion. They are a partially fermented product. . .so the lactose, more so than the protein, has already been broken down. . .hence the lessening of fermentation in the intestines.

 

[hambirg]

And he just broke the story on this despite no evidence that arsenic in apple juice has resulted in cardiac problems or hypertension? In all the years people have been consuming apple juice (and not dying or becoming ill from arsenic poisoning I might add) we wouldn't have some sort of credible data linking apple juice to some sort of heart disease? I am by no means an expert but I fail to see how his area of expertise makes him an "authority" (who has basically been discredited in relation to the apple juice) in the components of juice.

Well, there hasn't been any long term studies. when those happen then I think we can make conclusions. The problem with the fact that people have been drinking apple juice for ages, is that we don't know if it has always had high levels of arsenic.

I don't think he's claiming to be an "expert". BUT they did tests at a credible lab and reported their findings. I don't see a problem with that. I DO see a problem with the FDA saying that the tests just show high levels of organic arsenic. We don't know that until there are further tests. And I also know that their claim that ALL organic arsenic is safe is ********. There are MANY forms of both organic and inorganic arsenic. Not ALL organic arsenic is safe. Not ALL naturally occurring arsenic is safe. How about we do more testing to be sure what we are dealing with before we make those kinds of claims? That goes for both sides.

 

[hambirg]

In toddlers?

I don't know that many adults consume a lot of apple juice on the regular.

The short and honest answer is that we don't know.