argh Dave Ramsey

[tonilea]

I have a theory that some people are born with good money 'sense' and the rest of us have to be taught. lol And it was really hard to admit that, in spite of being intelligent people, we just didn't have what it took to manage our money.

 

[robsmom]

deleted because i am sick and in a bad mood and should not have typed what i typed!!

 

[Lintasare]

deleted because i am sick and in a bad mood and should not have typed what i typed!!

Everyone has bad days sometimes. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[robsmom]

Thanks. i didn't mean my response to be mean but when i read it over, i just soundy too nasty!!

 

[stemikger]

Originally posted by Micksterlee
My wife has discovered Dave Ramsey and my WDW days are done! She cut up the credit cards and from now on if we can't pay cash we don't do it. I have to admit the debt free thing will be nice but I sure do miss eating out and right now it looks like the next time I see WDW will be with great grand kids I don't even have yet.

It is usually the other way around, the husband is the one who gets turned on to Dave in a milatant way and has to force the wife to go on board.

I too was a militant Dave Ramsey follower. However, Dave is the most hardcore of the financial gurus. His plan does work, but it is extreme. Dave is like the crash diet of the financial world.

Most people are very intense in the beginning, but even Dave will tell you, that you both have to come to some sort of agreement to work together and both of you have to have a say or it will not work.

Even when I was hardcore I always took my Dis vacations, because tomorrow has no guaranties and I did not want to live with the regret of not enjoying a vacation once a year with my family.

My suggestion to you is to buy your wife the book the Automatic Millionaire by David Bach. It teaches what Dave Ramsey does, but it is much easier and does not expect you to stop living during the process.

Good Luck.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Really this isn't meant to be rude but are you serious? There are rules for filing BK and if your case gets tossed you will be considered ineligible for filing again just as if you had been discharged. Which in plain English means you will lose everything unless you figure a way to pay it all back.

Either you have a terrible attorney who just cares about taking your money or you weren't really listening to them when you had the consult. Your Dec trip to WDW would probably be considered abuse and that alone would have your case tossed. Anything you charged at least a month and up to 3months before filing isn't even covered in the BK. They get all your bank records for the 6mths previous to filing and then again when you go to your creditor meeting all the current months bank accts. All your assets have to be listed and if they are worth anything, they are taken and sold off. You even have to list out who holds security deposits and how much (utilities, etc).

And they take into account if your income might go up in the future. Which you claim it might.

Maybe you have an appt to fill out all the paperwork next tuesday but I would seriously sit down and ensure you are getting good solid legal advice before going forward.

That is of course assuming you are being 100% truthful here on the Dis.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Yep, I never thought it was a problem to charge anything and everything. My husband made really good money and we always afforded our payments comfortably. I never saw a problem with it.

I absolutely know it was our spending that got us into the credit card debt, no argument there. BUT, had my husband's salary not gotten cut, we would still be plodding along, making our payments, like we always did.

What am I going to do differently? Never have a credit card, unless it's secured with a $500 limit. If I don't have cash, I won't buy it. If we want to buy something "big", it's called a savings account. When we finally do go on vacation again, we will save up every penny for it.

This has been a hard lesson, but one that I needed to learn.

 

[mickeyfan2]

What does it matter how she got into debt, just curious? In the end, it doesn't matter how you got into debt- as long as you are seeking a way out of it and don't repeat the same mistakes again, yes?

It does matter because she needs to learn from her mistakes. Her planning a Poly/cruise trip in October 2008 and a Poly trip in December 2008 shows how she thinks and that she has not learned anything.

Yes, I have a night time job, but it can't make up for a 30K salary loss. We survived awhile with the salary cut, due to help from relatives, but can no longer make it.

Again, it's a hard lesson to learn, but I was so wrong in my line of thinking to just "charge away" and deal with it later. Never again....

Now you have $60K and you use to have $90K. Even at $90K you were in way over your head. Mortgage $260K, Escalade $20K and CC debt of $50K. Plus those twice a year Poly trips.

 

[mickeyfan2]

To me it sounds like you are blaming both the salary cut AND your spending habits. Which is exactly right! Even debt free, most people would have a hard time taking a 50% cut in pay, so don't let some of the posters here get you down. While bankruptcy should of course be avoided when possible, I'm not one of those that looks down my nose at people who need to take that course. Its perfectly legal, and I find nothing morally wrong with it as long as the person tried their best to avoid it. Creditors know there is a risk in lending people money, and sometimes people default. It's just buisness.

As long as you've learned your lesson and go forward in life paying cash and saving for a rainey day, I've certainly got no problem it, and it sounds like that's your plan.

But is was not a 50% cut in pay but a 50% cut in one of DH's 3 job. If you include hers there have 4 jobs. They made $90K and not make $60K.

Planning two WDW vacations for later this year is not how one saves for a rainy day.

BTW We actually went from a two income to a one income (due to a layoff) last fall and we are not going to claim bankruptcy. We are doing just fine. We cut back on spending and canceled an October 2007 WDW vacation.

 

[loco4dis]

Well, now wait a second here..I certainly agree about the bankruptcy but this person may have small children that she needs to care for. It may not be profitable for her to work after daycare expenses. I don't think it's fair to tell her to get a job when we don't know everything about her circumstances.

Maybe there is something you could do from home to make money?

Mary

If you'll notice, I said how about working at night or on the weekends, which the poster said she does. That's great. My point was that I don't even think someone should be permitted to file bankruptcy — and walk away from a pile of bills for which she has signed a contract to pay — without first seeking employment and attempting to pay the bills. If you're flat broke, and you and your spouse are not BOTH working full time, then I'm very sorry but I cannot pity such people when they file for bankruptcy. You need money? You work. It's that simple. Perhaps one works days and one works nights to avoid day care costs — lots of couples do that — but you BOTH work if you have bills you cannot pay. This is a pet peeve of mine. I have friends who are stay-at-home moms who complain all the time about a lack of funds. Hello? Get a job. Your children will learn a valuable lesson about being an adult.

 

[NCTWINSMOM]

Welcome fellow DR follower!

Yes, as many posters have said, Dave is intense, but it works. We have a two year time frame to pay off the debt have a nice savings account and will then take a cruise to Alaska (or somewhere like that). The next year we will have a huge chunk to put down on our next house. While we want take a big vacation for two years, we will go to my sisters lake house for free and visit the beach on the weekends. We are lucky that my family stays by the coast...

 

[mom2twinz3]

If you'll notice, I said how about working at night or on the weekends, which the poster said she does. That's great. My point was that I don't even think someone should be permitted to file bankruptcy — and walk away from a pile of bills for which she has signed a contract to pay — without first seeking employment and attempting to pay the bills. If you're flat broke, and you and your spouse are not BOTH working full time, then I'm very sorry but I cannot pity such people when they file for bankruptcy. You need money? You work. It's that simple. Perhaps one works days and one works nights to avoid day care costs — lots of couples do that — but you BOTH work if you have bills you cannot pay. This is a pet peeve of mine. I have friends who are stay-at-home moms who complain all the time about a lack of funds. Hello? Get a job. Your children will learn a valuable lesson about being an adult.

Okay, I understand the first part of what you are saying, and I'm not defending the bankruptcy filing nor the circumstances that got her there.

As far as being a SAHM, well I'm a big attachment parenting advocate so my views are probably not suited to this discussion. Even now that I work, I work for the schools so I keep the same schedule as my kids. That's just my personal quirk.

I guess I'm a little weirded out by the posse of DIS'ers (not saying you are one of these, but your post caught my eye) that are chasing this person from thread to thread just to point fingers at her. I mean, I get what everyone is upset about but once is enough to say it.

 

[ObsessedwiththeMouse]

..

 

[Frankiesmom]

I have to agree with mom2twinz3- this is turning into a lynch mob! Glad to hear that everyone here is a financial genius; that you all pay cash- all the time for everything!???! I seriously doubt that- no wonder I spend most of my time on these boards in the resort section or the DVC section- the majority of people here are really holier-than-thou!

 

[MrsPete]

But, if you are living in debt, you are working your butt off to pay for yesterdays pleasures.

Getting debt free is a short term event, with life time benefits. DR is not about work, work, work, save, save, save, never have anything but a fat bank account. It is about avoiding all the finance charges and using those to enjoy life even more.

Exactly. Once you're "caught up", you'll be able to afford to eat out and go to Disney again -- AND you'll still be able to save. The problem is being "behind".

I agree the debt free thing sounds great and Ramsey makes some very good points. My problem I guess is I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.We are in our 50s trying to survive in our own business which is mortgage related and a bit in the dumps right now and looks like this could take some time.I have tried to find a job like Ramsey suggests but haven't had any luck since I only have a high school diploma and my past work history is in the entertainment business and retail management.I am sure with persistance we will get evrything paid off in maybe 10 years, with the toughest being the house.

Okay, so you've got some tough circumstances. Essentially you have two choices: Deal with the debt and improve things, or keep going as you are now. Which one's more pleasant today? Which one's going to benefit you more when you're in your 60s, your 70s, your 80s?

When my students tell me why they can't study, can't finish their paper or novel, or whatever (and it usually involves, "I can't do ___ because I have to go to my job at the mall so I can pay my car insurance), here's what I do: I write their excuses in a block on the board (or on paper), and I draw a long arrow towards the right. On the arrow I write out the months between now and graduation: March, April, May. Then I say, "Okay, you have these things going on; they are real problems -- they aren't something you're imagining. Whether you deal with them or not, March will become April, April will become May, and graduation will arrive in June. Will these things be better or worse in April? Will these problems disappear by May? If they aren't going to go away, then you'd better deal with them today."

 

[MrsPete]

I have a theory that some people are born with good money 'sense' and the rest of us have to be taught. lol And it was really hard to admit that, in spite of being intelligent people, we just didn't have what it took to manage our money.

I'm very good with money. I grew up with parents who were not; however, I realized that as a teenager and set out to do better. I read as much as I could about money management in college. I don't think I was "born knowing" how to manage money so much as I purposefully informed myself BEFORE I had time to get into debt. That's the whole key: never getting into debt (of course, some cannot be avoided -- houses and first cars); once you're in, you have to work extra hard to get out.

Irony: My father was a CPA and managed money for a large company, then for a city . . . yet he could not manage his own money. That doesn't make much sense, does it?

 

[mom2twinz3]

I have to agree with mom2twinz3- this is turning into a lynch mob! Glad to hear that everyone here is a financial genius; that you all pay cash- all the time for everything!???! I seriously doubt that- no wonder I spend most of my time on these boards in the resort section or the DVC section- the majority of people here are really holier-than-thou!

Not really, Frankiesmom! There are many helpful and knowledgeable people here on the budget board. DVCGIRL for one, totally rocks! I've learned a lot here and continue to do so. I've seen comments before directed to certain topics like debt that are hot-button, but I must say I've never seen a person being chased all over the boards in this manner before. This isn't the standard M.O. so don't let it chase you away.

Mary

 

[micksterlee]

Wow when I started this thread I guess it was a little self indulgent to complain that Ramsey was taking the fun out of my life, but I wasn't really trying to start wars.

 

[loco4dis]

Okay, I understand the first part of what you are saying, and I'm not defending the bankruptcy filing nor the circumstances that got her there.

As far as being a SAHM, well I'm a big attachment parenting advocate so my views are probably not suited to this discussion. Even now that I work, I work for the schools so I keep the same schedule as my kids. That's just my personal quirk.

I guess I'm a little weirded out by the posse of DIS'ers (not saying you are one of these, but your post caught my eye) that are chasing this person from thread to thread just to point fingers at her. I mean, I get what everyone is upset about but once is enough to say it.

I'm really not trying to gang up on anyone. I guess I'm just trying to be direct. I'm certainly not perfect with money, and I've made spending mistakes like everyone else has, but we've all got to be adults here. Our children are watching and learning from us. You don't file bankruptcy and take a luxury vacation in the same year. You don't say you can't pay your credit card bills if you aren't working full time. I don't know what attachment parenting is but I assume it means you want to be with your kids. We all do. When I decided to stay home with my kids when they were young I bought a $5,000 used car and drove it for 10 years. We didn't use credit cards. We rarely ate out. And we sure as heck didn't go to the Poly (or anywhere else) at WDW. And all the while I took classes to become a teacher so I could have the same schedule as my children. They're teens now, and I work full time. Finally, we can afford some more things like vacations, but we still pinch pennies. We still drive used cars. We eat out with coupons. My children mock me all the time with "I know, I know, 'We can't afford it!'" because I say that a lot. But I notice they are really good consumers now, looking closely at prices, refusing to follow fashion trends that are too pricey, etc. I really am not holier than thou, just trying to share what seems to me to be common sense.

 

[dshouse4]

Hi, to the poster that was looking for a free budget form, my favoite is from Crown Financial. The web site is crown.org. Do a search for
monthly income and expenses form or budget from. Hope this helps. I like Dave Ramsey and Crown Finacial.