Are you or have you ever been the "other woman"?

[poohandwendy]

Oh, I don't think they are thrilled with themselves at all. More sad I guess about how it has worked out I just meant that I think they are good people overall.

I understand what you are saying but good people overall does not equal good spouses. But, to be honest, I would be surprised to hear that the spouses dont know their reality on some level. I think you would really have to be living in serious denial to not know your spouse has been having an affair for years. My guess is that have an unspoken truce going on, hear no evil, see no eveil...That is truly sad.

 

[DoeWDW]

I don't think anyone expects perfection from their spouse. That is asking too much of course, but if you read thru the stories posted, there is a pattern. It starts simply enough and develops over time; unless the cheater is seeking prostitutes, sex comes much later. At some point prior to actually breaking his/her vows, a "good" person would recognize what is going on and take responsibility to either fix or end the marriage before involving another person.

This has been the pattern I see over and over. A married person is going through a tough time and looks for/finds emotional support outside the bounds of marriage. When you've talked at length about your deepest marital problems with an understanding person of the opposite sex, you develop an emotional bond and an intimacy that should be reserved for INSIDE a marriage.

Developing these kinds of emotional bonds should be a major warning sign that deeper involvement could follow, even if it just started out as trying to "help" the married person by being a good listener.

I'm not flaming anyone here. I'm just saying that I recognize this pattern. Now that I'm older and wiser and see the pattern, as a married woman I will not put myself in the position of confidante for any man going through marital problems. Casual acquaintance - yes, confidante and source of emotional support - no. That's what counselors are for.

I can understand how someone who is younger and/or less aware of this pattern could easily fall into the situation.

 

[Christine]

I understand what you are saying but good people overall does not equal good spouses. But, to be honest, I would be surprised to hear that the spouses dont know their reality on some level. I think you would really have to be living in denial to not know your spouse has been having an affair for years. That is truly sad.

Yep, but I'm telling you, they don't know.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

No one said that. What I said is that someone who does it AND has no sense that what they are doing (lying and cheating) is somehow wrong. I am willing to bet that most people who lie and cheat know they are doing the wrong thing, they just choose to do it anyway. Please don't turn my argument into "anyone who doesn't do it in the missionary position is mentally ill." My argument had nothing to do with sex but rather with knowledge of right and wrong.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I took a class on deviant sexual behaviour once (sociology) and I don't ever remember the term sociopath being applied in that context. I just remembered when homosexuality was considered deviant behavior in the past. Some people still think that it is today. My point is that by shoveling away a type of behaviour or by putting it neatly in a category, that doesn't make it go away, or anything. I would think that it would just become more prevalent.

 

[Lisa F]

I understand what you are saying but good people overall does not equal good spouses. But, to be honest, I would be surprised to hear that the spouses dont know their reality on some level. I think you would really have to be living in denial to not know your spouse has been having an affair for years. That is truly sad.

True, and it's not like there is some big "good person" score where you lose points for pulling the wings off of flies and having an affair and you gain points for keeping your promises and adopting lots of pets from the shelter. I just think that people who have long term affairs have too many "deal breaker" qualities for me. I would certainly not want to date them and I probably wouldn't trust them as a friend. If they can lie to the person who is supposed to be their best friend and their life partner for so many years, how could I trust them? If they don't have the courage to take responsibility for their actions, why would I want someone like that on "my side"? If they care more about themselves and their own desires than they do about the spouse they promised to love and cherish, what use would I have for them in MY life? Again, I'm not talking about someone who made a mistake and owned up to it. I'm talking about someone who has gone way past the point of mistake. Maybe I just have ridiculously high standards as to who I let into my life, but at least I can say with a relatively high level of security that they won't let me down.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

True, and it's not like there is some big "good person" score where you lose points for pulling the wings off of flies and having an affair and you gain points for keeping your promises and adopting lots of pets from the shelter. I just think that people who have long term affairs have too many "deal breaker" qualities for me. I would certainly not want to date them and I probably wouldn't trust them as a friend. If they can lie to the person who is supposed to be their best friend and their life partner for so many years, how could I trust them? If they don't have the courage to take responsibility for their actions, why would I want someone like that on "my side"? If they care more about themselves and their own desires than they do about the spouse they promised to love and cherish, what use would I have for them in MY life? Again, I'm not talking about someone who made a mistake and owned up to it. I'm talking about someone who has gone way past the point of mistake. Maybe I just have ridiculously high standards as to who I let into my life, but at least I can say with a relatively high level of security that they won't let me down.

Well, never say never! If your spouse ever does cheat on you, or you get divorced. I will certainly treat you kindly and listen with an impartial ear.

 

[Lisa F]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I took a class on deviant sexual behaviour once (sociology) and I don't ever remember the term sociopath being applied in that context. I just remembered when homosexuality was considered deviant behavior in the past. Some people still think that it is today. My point is that by shoveling away a type of behaviour or by putting it neatly in a category, that doesn't make it go away, or anything. I would think that it would just become more prevalent.

I am NOT talking about deviant sexual behavior. NOT NOT NOT.

What I AM talking about is the ability to distinguish right from wrong. Not right from wrong in sex, right from wrong in general. Lying and cheating are wrong. Lying is wrong if you tell your wife you are working late and you're really boinking your 19 year old secretary. Lying is wrong if you tell your wife you didn't get a bonus this year and you actually lost it on the horsies. It has nothing to do with sex.

People who are lying to their spouse KNOW they are doing the wrong thing. If they don't know that it's wrong, then there is something wrong with them.

 

[Christine]

I can briefly describe what *might* have been a causative factor in one of the marriages.

Husband and wife married for many, many years. Husband has some undiagnosed (minor) neurological problem (don't want to go into too much detail). It keeps getting misdiagnosed and throws him into a severe depression. He is so depressed, he finally ups and leaves for 2 months on a walkabout in the woods. Of course this stresses the wife out, understandably, and she has to take sole responsibility for everything (kids, house). He comes back 2 months later, gets proper treatment, and everything is fine for him. But not the wife. She now wants control of everything and second guesses everything he does around the house. They are in counseling but somehow she cannot really "trust" him again to be the head of the household. This goes on for years. It erodes their relationship, yet they still enjoy their "home", their kids, their life and all the trappings. There are deep, established family ties at this point. Yet, he meets another woman, is friends with her for many years, and then starts a "relationship" which continues for many years.

So, I sort of think this example was the catalyst for that marriage. Not living in the house, I'm not sure I can understand all the dynamics; however, I do know that the whole depression/rejection thing is probably very crushing for a man's ego (or a woman's for that matter). Connecting with someone else was proably inevitable.

The second marriage I know of was purely caused by marrying too young, getting deep in debt on both sides and not being able to get out (they actually tried).

 

[Lisa F]

Well, never say never! If your spouse ever does cheat on you, or you get divorced. I will certainly treat you kindly and listen with an impartial ear.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Even if I WERE to get a divorce (which I won't) I certainly wouldn't be sharing the details of it on the DIS.

 

[poohandwendy]

If they care more about themselves and their own desires than they do about the spouse they promised to love and cherish, what use would I have for them in MY life? Again, I'm not talking about someone who made a mistake and owned up to it. I'm talking about someone who has gone way past the point of mistake.

This is why I would caution someone who is thinking of becoming involved with a married person.

Bottom line, that person who cheats has not learned the very basics of relationships. They are problem solving as a couple and loyalty.

I would only say, listen to what they say and play devil's advocate. Why aren't they home working on it or at an attys office ending it? Is that level of committment what you are looking for? Because that is what you are likely to get. Maybe not today or next week or next year. But until they learn these basics, they will feel justified to turn to another when the going gets tough.

 

[Lachesis00]

Shoot... screwed up. Was suppose to be a new post....

 

[Christine]

Shoot... screwed up. Was suppose to be a new post....

Rachel,
This is an "other woman" thread. So are you trying to set something up in San Diego? Is there something you'd like to tell us?

 

[Lachesis00]

You busted me!!!



i was lurking on the thread when my husband came up with the bright idea of driving to CA this weekend... I got excited and thought I was posting new. LOL

 

[poohandwendy]

This has been the pattern I see over and over. A married person is going through a tough time and looks for/finds emotional support outside the bounds of marriage. When you've talked at length about your deepest marital problems with an understanding person of the opposite sex, you develop an emotional bond and an intimacy that should be reserved for INSIDE a marriage.

Developing these kinds of emotional bonds should be a major warning sign that deeper involvement could follow, even if it just started out as trying to "help" the married person by being a good listener.

I'm not flaming anyone here. I'm just saying that I recognize this pattern. Now that I'm older and wiser and see the pattern, as a married woman I will not put myself in the position of confidante for any man going through marital problems. Casual acquaintance - yes, confidante and source of emotional support - no. That's what counselors are for.

I can understand how someone who is younger and/or less aware of this pattern could easily fall into the situation.

Great post, ITA. I think it very often just starts with turning to another person who will not criticize you (LOL, someone who has never cleaned your toilet and doesn't know what a jerk you can be when you are stressed/tired, etc). Of course they are going to be on 'your side' and agree with you. They don't have to live with you! You have never hurt them. And you are giving them an intimate part of yourself by opening that door. It's the ultimate compliment when someone confides their innerself to you.

Unfortunately, the very person you SHOULD be talking to and being intimate with is the one you are being disloyal to by airing your dirty laundry to someone else. The more you talk to that confidant, the less likely you are to deal with the negativity that comes with facing your real problems at home. You now have an outlet to vent your frustrations and your spouse cannot compete. They don't even know they are in a race.

I think the pattern is very common. Sometimes it doesn't go anywhere beyond that. But when it does it is horribly destructive.

 

[nativetxn]

Never.

 

[CallThemLikeIseeThem]

nobodys perfect and i know for a fact some of the peeps here have been the other woman.

 

[Freyja]

Never have been and never will be.

 

[ducklite]

When I started dating my DH he wasn't divorced yet, but they had been seperated for not quite a year with no intentions of reconciling--they had a mandatory waiting period before they could file after the seperated, so I guess that doesn't count. He filed a couple months after we started dating.

Must have been going on 25 years ago I dated a guy a couple times not knowing he was married--and still with his wife--the minute I found out I never took his calls again. So I guess I was "the other woman" although we never did anything but kiss (thank goodness!), and I didn't know he was married. I hope that absolves me from the flames.

Anne

 

[Marseeya]

OMG! I really needed that laugh!! Wow so that means you are not Astryd from VMK? Wait a minute- YES YOU ARE!! I know for a fact you have been the other woman. WOW!!

 

[Marseeya]

When I started dating my DH he wasn't divorced yet, but they had been seperated for not quite a year with no intentions of reconciling--they had a mandatory waiting period before they could file after the seperated, so I guess that doesn't count. He filed a couple months after we started dating.

Must have been going on 25 years ago I dated a guy a couple times not knowing he was married--and still with his wife--the minute I found out I never took his calls again. So I guess I was "the other woman" although we never did anything but kiss (thank goodness!), and I didn't know he was married. I hope that absolves me from the flames.

Anne

I was accidentally a couple of times. Not fun. One in particular was really weird. I was 18 and living in a dorm and went out with this guy. He was a bit older, like 20 something, living in the dorms as well. I found out he had a wife and baby back home! How on earth would you expect to find a married man living in a dorm???