Are you in the middle class, 2023?

[sasywtch]

In the search right above where it lists some cities, you can search for your city. We are between the middle and upper class.

 

[C&Jx2]

Wow for our city - with our combined income, we are above middle class. I never would have thought that.

Same. That doesn't seem right though...

 

[mrs. magoo]

We are between middle and upper class as well but I have 4 kids and my father living with us so I certainly do not feel upper class at all.

 

[Kitty 34]

We're comfortably retired.

 

[slo]

Happy and Blessed to be middle class

 

[china mom]

As my son always likes to say "We are comfortable"

 

[DisneyHardin]

Same. That doesn't seem right though...

I don't think it really seems right either - DH and I are a police officer and teacher - we definitely aren't living an "Upper Class" life.

 

[Jayunit09]

According to the chart, we made exactly that the upper middle class limit was last year for New Hampshire. I am friends with upper class and upper middle class families and we are def not them.

 

[Moliphino]

The only New England city in the list seems to be Boston, which is way more expensive than my part of the state.

On my own or for household total income, I qualify as middle class. No kids, though.

 

[amylevan]

Middle class definition, as used here, is merely comparing incomes - not lifestyle, level of debt, or any other factors. It’s merely where your income falls in relation to medians and averages.

So to say that you don’t look like upper middle class compared to others around you, you have no idea the amount of debt that other upper middle class family is handling to appear how they do. And based on average consumer debt in the US, it’s probably high, and they could barely be keeping their head above water. It’s why keeping up with Jones is a bad idea.

For us, according to the numbers, we are upper middle, which doesn’t surprise me. We’re also comfortable because our lifestyle probably doesn’t appear to be upper middle to the outsider.

 

[mjkacmom]

My husband is a bit over the middle upper class limit now (one income, five kids) here in NJ, just had another move out (paying $2000 for her apartment, it’s 530 sf). She just above middle class, same with her brother who moved out (his rent is only $1000 with three roommates though).

 

[LilyWDW]

I am about smack dab in the middle of the median and the middle class upper limit for my city.

Which I can see as this is the first time in my life I look at my budget and I don't cry wondering where I can cut more corners.

 

[mrodgers]

Those are absurdly low numbers which may appease the pride of hard working people but net take home is a fraction of that. If you dig in further with taxes, childcare, healthcare payments + copay + deductibles for those non-Cadillac plans normal people get, commute expenses & the whims of officials with pricing you are drowning nevermind if you have a child in college. The ranges are delusional, the people who came up with these numbers must be on something and it must be the same something the people who do the numbers for living expenses for Social Security take.

More interesting is the question, what does it mean to be middle class?

The numbers are merely XX% to XX% around the middle, hence "middle" class. The fact that you have a kid in school or you pay childcare vs. the Miller's have grandma watch the kids, etc, that all comes out after the factor of where your income is in the chart.

 

[GAN]

I suppose I'm not totally shocked but my circumstances are definitely a little different(being separated and paying for two different places to live) -combined, we're actually above middle class ..not sure where that leaves me . I certainly don't live above my means and other than golf my expenses are strictly limited(read frugal). I have everything I need basically. My one upcoming major expense is my 60th birthday gift ...which I found out yesterday I'll have about a month earlier than my August birthday. I went and ordered a new Ford Bronco so I'm looking forward to some "topless" driving this summer here in the northeast!

 

[mrodgers]

My kids are just about grown. One is halfway out on her own, the other out of the home in college. Neither "live" with me as I am divorced. I am dead in the middle for my state, and specific to my area is difficult to quantify because half is folks from Pittsburgh in the southern part of the county while the town I live on the outskirts of would not be representation of the rest of us not on the outskirts of Pittsburgh in the southern part of the county but not "city" living in town. I think compared to town a few miles away, my single income is double the median income.

What it boils down to is, at the middle or double the middle I must live in poverty because there's no way I could afford to own a decent home since these last 2 years.

 

[tzolkin]

For all those stating that you are at the upper end/just above middle class but it doesn't "feel like it", I'm curious to know why you feel that way. Do you not feel upper middle class because you are struggling to make ends meet despite your income or is it simply because you aren't doing all the things that you see other people who you think are "upper class" doing?

People have drastically different lifestyles regardless of their income, so it's very hard to gauge what another family's income actually is unless they tell you. I think sometimes when things are common in your area, you tend to assume that's what all "middle class" people have/do.

For example, in our area it is "the norm" to have your kids involved in many expensive extracurricular activities, get coffee daily, go out to eat many times a week, have professional family photos taken a few times a year, gym membership, etc. I, personally, do not feel comfortable with that level of spending even though we could afford it, so we have simply chosen to opt out of "keeping up with the Joneses". Despite the fact that our income has more than doubled over the last few years, we live the same lifestyle we always have (actually we downsized our house a few years ago when I started a higher paying job). We definitely appear to others and "feel" like we are living within the lower end of "middle class", despite the fact that our income well exceeds the upper limit on the chart for our area.

 

[DLgal]

Don't work for the government then. Anyone can look up my exact salary & benefits.

Same for military. Teachers salaries, by name, are also available to anyone who wants to know.

I never understood the secrecy around income. Who cares? It SHOULD be more widely discussed. Otherwise, people get taken advantage of and paid unfairly.

 

[LuvOrlando]

The numbers are merely XX% to XX% around the middle, hence "middle" class. The fact that you have a kid in school or you pay childcare vs. the Miller's have grandma watch the kids, etc, that all comes out after the factor of where your income is in the chart.

I do understand you completely but we are seeing two different things in play and from different points of view. I think the people making this chart & defining "XX% to XX%" thresholds to poverty are setting the bar extremely low and defining middle as anyone who isn't homeless because of optics. Goal is they want to be able to use the word middle easily and redefining what middle is, well that is much easier than fixing things and getting struggling people up to the bar, or so I suspect.

Middle class is more of a lifestyle than a number & the people who package numbers are attempting to quantify quality of life, and failing BTW. It is dangerous for us, as a society, to allow people who are struggling to be labeled as fine with words like Middle Class. There are giant swaths of the US who meet the numbers for middle but are not fine and can't meet the expenses for a decent life with the absurd numbers used. The numbers are just wrong & we would all see that if actual budgets of real people were ever part of the conversation instead of graphs thrown together by some plutocrat with a schmancy degree.

To me this is spin & I am no fan of spin.

 

[DLgal]

For all those stating that you are at the upper end/just above middle class but it doesn't "feel like it", I'm curious to know why you feel that way. Do you not feel upper middle class because you are struggling to make ends meet despite your income or is it simply because you aren't doing all the things that you see other people who you think are "upper class" doing?

People have drastically different lifestyles regardless of their income, so it's very hard to gauge what another family's income actually is unless they tell you. I think sometimes when things are common in your area, you tend to assume that's what all "middle class" people have/do.

For example, in our area it is "the norm" to have your kids involved in many expensive extracurricular activities, get coffee daily, go out to eat many times a week, have professional family photos taken a few times a year, gym membership, etc. I, personally, do not feel comfortable with that level of spending even though we could afford it, so we have simply chosen to opt out of "keeping up with the Joneses". Despite the fact that our income has more than doubled over the last few years, we live the same lifestyle we always have (actually we downsized our house a few years ago when I started a higher paying job). We definitely appear to others and "feel" like we are living within the lower end of "middle class", despite the fact that our income well exceeds the upper limit on the chart for our area.

It is a good point that comparing yourself to others in your area can make you feel a certain way. I mean, comparatively, we seem dirt poor. I see high end luxury cars driving around my city all day long. My neighborhood streets are lined with McLarens, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Bentleys...all manner of luxury cars. It's insane. But maybe those people are leasing those cars and living massive debt ridden lives? Or maybe they just make really good money? Sure seems like a LOT of people around here have a LOT of money, when most houses sell for all cash in the $2M range. Certainly it's a well off area.

We drive 16 and 7 year old Hondas. We rent because we can't afford to buy here at current rates and haven't managed to scape together $250,000 for a down payment yet. We have NO consumer debt. Our kids play no sports. We have no gym membership. We eat at moderate priced restaurants when we go out. We have Disneyland Annual passes, and that is literally our only entertainment splurge. We haven't taken a major family vacation since 2018. But yet, we make over the upper middle-class threshold for our city. I suppose if we had been able to purchase a home 10 years ago when they were less than half the price they are now, we'd be in much better shape, and we would actually be able to feel like we are an upper class household, but right now? No way. It seems like homeownership is a joke for us. Like, it will NEVER be a possibility. Every time we get close, the prices jack way up or now we have the situation with the interest rates. It's perpetually out of reach for us, no matter how much more money we make or how much we save up. The irony is, if rates were still below 3%, we'd be able to FINALLY buy a house this year. But nope. It's discouraging, and makes you feel like there is no way up the ladder.

And its not even just the city we live in. We couldn't afford to buy a suitable house anywhere in the REGION with the current interest rates. And those rates are preventing people from selling their homes too. So the low inventory means prices haven’t fallen at all. It's just a terrible situation all around. There is a fundamental problem when people living in area are making an "upper class" salary, yet cannot afford a home while living a modest lifestyle.

 

[mrodgers]

I do understand you completely but we are seeing two different things in play and from different points of view. I think the people making this chart & defining "XX% to XX%" thresholds to poverty are setting the bar extremely low and defining middle as anyone who isn't homeless because of optics. Goal is they want to be able to use the word middle easily and redefining what middle is, well that is much easier than fixing things and getting struggling people up to the bar, or so I suspect.

Middle class is more of a lifestyle than a number & the people who package numbers are attempting to quantify quality of life, and failing BTW. It is dangerous for us, as a society, to allow people who are struggling to be labeled as fine with words like Middle Class. There are giant swaths of the US who meet the numbers for middle but are not fine and can't meet the expenses for a decent life with the absurd numbers used. The numbers are just wrong & we would all see that if actual budgets of real people were ever part of the conversation instead of graphs thrown together by some plutocrat with a schmancy degree.

To me this is spin & I am no fan of spin.

I agree. To compound it, most people and media when they talk "middle class" they inflate the other way. People with dual incomes each making $100k+ media defines as middle class.

So, which definition of middle class is it? The defining word to me is "middle" of which median income and a range on either side of that median is the middle and what middle class should be. Most talk in discussions of middle class is more in the say 60-80% range, which is not middle.

Then there's the what income? I am pretty decently below the median income for the state. But I work a ton of overtime which puts me decently above median income. And that's my individual income comparing against the household income with includes anything from a single person through parents with 15 kids.

One would think that someone decently above the median income could afford a place to live. Well, I do. It's a piece of junk trailer on faceless corporate owned grounds that I am not allowed to do the things I do in my life. I wouldn't even be able to rent an apartment today.

"Middle class" discussions drive me a bit batty because of everyone's individual definition of "middle class."