Are you averse to the 'new' 5-day pass only? Please read and comment...

Well I've emailed. Right in the middle of it I remembered from the disunplugged podcast that a while back at least, it was possible to use WDW tickets at Disneyland. I will be visiting WDW for 7 days in November and excitedly thought, ooh I can double check that and then buy a longer ticket. Thinking the extra days wouldn't cost much but I'd forgotten about the non expiration charge. Just buying the additional 2 days that I'd need would cost 251.34 dollars.

It looks like they really just want me to vacation elsewhere at this point although I do have faith they will change this somehow. It makes no sense that they would want to combat the money they are losing from ticket fraud by...losing more money :confused3!
 
Thanks, ValpoCory, for sharing that email with us. This is the part that I don't understand:

"However, we believe that the entertainment, food,
merchandise, and attractions offered are the best available for the
prices charged. Any changes in the DISNEYLAND® Resort prices or
offerings are made after thorough research."

It's pretty easy to understand, as long as you think of it from Disney's corporate perspective. Here is the translation: "We have effectively raised admission prices by eliminating six day and longer tickets. We think our attendance will still be sufficiently high, even if some people don't stay a sixth (or seventh or eighth) day in a given trip. Our pre-opening surveys suggested people were going to go gaga over the new DCA land, and so far they have. So, tough cookies."
 
The 6-day pass, and the ability to upgrade that 6-day pass to an 8-day pass at the ticket booths, was taken away completely from everyone.

When did the ability to add extra days at the ticket booths end? The last time I was on the boards that was stiil an option.Sorry...I am on holidays and am just catching up.
 
I'm headed to DL for my first trip and we have 5 day park hoppers, I'd gotten all excited seeing as we decided we wanted to stay longer and go to DLR longer than that.. but if I have to buy new tickets, that ain't happening, :(
 

When did the ability to add extra days at the ticket booths end? The last time I was on the boards that was stiil an option.Sorry...I am on holidays and am just catching up.

In the "What do you mean I can't add more days?" thread, bclydia posted this on Aug 20:

" The lead today said that the option to sell anything longer than a 5 day ticket was taken away about a week ago. I've tried three different ticket booths and Guest Relations outside of CA. There just doesn't seem to be any way to add days anymore."

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=45890812&postcount=233


HTH,
Bob
 
First off, thanks for the lovely comment back on page 1 Jory :goodvibes.

I really DO think they will change this if they get enough feedback. While they have never lowered prices (outside of promotions), they have certainly corrected mistakes. For example, when DCA first opened, you could get a 1-park AP or pay more for a parkhopper AP--cue hysterical laughter. They remedied that pretty quickly. So I do think that with enough outcry, they will change.

Combating the fraud can be exceedingly simple. Just require EVERYONE to show a picture ID at the gate EVERY time. Of course do lots of publicity so everyone knows to bring their ID and have it ready, they can print someone's name on the ticket at the time that it's printed (or heck, just write it in like they do now--don't even need a signature) and then routinely check ID. It's not that hard. Will it eliminate ticket fraud? Of course not, but people will be much less likely to attempt fraud if they know their ID will be checked. Same with the biometrics--do they work 100% of the time? No, but you know it's pretty risky to try to trick the system. When the risk is very high, fewer people will turn to fraud.

To make a little extra money, they can even create a "Disney ID" that you can buy that serves as picture ID for tickets as well as a nice, cute souvenir. Simply require all appropriate documentation and then issue them the same as the old APs that had pictures on them (now APs do not have pictures on the pass itself). Just an idea.

I can't speak for Disney obviously, but my *guess* is that the motivation behind this change is one, to prevent fraud, but two, to try to "force" as many people as possible into a Premium AP thinking this way--if you want a ticket greater than 5 days, you're probably a big Disney fan. So rather than letting you buy, say, a 7 day parkhopper and make one trip, if they can convince you to buy an AP, then you are very likely to squeeze in one more trip in the next 12 months to get your money's worth out of the AP. That is, if they sell a 7 day PH you will probably only come once a year, but if they sell you an AP, you will almost surely return for a second trip. This is, of course, flawed thinking, in that I think right now they overestimate people's desire and ability to pay the steep difference between the PH and the AP as well as making multiple trips in a 12 month period.

And of course it's deeply flawed in that 1) it completely contradicts their desire to be a resort vacation destination, and 2) even with the price increases, the vast majority of money Disney makes on guests is through food first, and merchandise second. I mean, Coke gives DLR their product for free and paper product pricing is negligible, so if I eat two meals in the park and pay $2.50 for a soda each time, that's $5 free and clear profit they just made off of me--for drinks alone in one day! Gate admission is not now and has never been the primary source of income. Financially it makes sense to have as many people in the parks as possible (that's why the SoCal APs are so cheap--because we fill the parks when the tourists don't), so it's really baffling that they would actively dissuade people from being in the parks. :confused3

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I really do hope this changes. I love DLR so much and it makes me really sad to see people cutting short their vacations due to this new pricing. Plus it infuriates me that honest people have to pay the price for ticket fraud.

Wow, you have done a lot of thinking since you first posted in this thread. Your ideas to help to prevent fraudulent activity look worthwhile for Disney to pursue, IMO. Tickets really could always have the name printed on them, you are right. The photo idea is one that could be brought in, as well. I completely agree with you that the motivation Disney may be thinking seems flawed, if that is their reasoning. Even if it's not their reasoning, they still have made a lot of guests upset as they have taken away something that they used to offer.

Profits are not made when guests start frequenting the other theme parks outside of Disneyland just to save some money, either by paying admission for a cheaper activity, OR by not paying huge sums in addition to what they already paid for their 5 day park hopper.

I stand by what I said earlier, there should be an added value in getting additional days, as Disney needs to look at lump sum of tickets paid for, not cost per day. [If someone buys a 6 or 7 day pass, they have paid far more initially than someone who only bought a 2 or 3 day pass, but the profit on food and merchandise from that 6 or 7 day pass is such that Disney should be passing on some savings to their guests who have bought into the 6 or 7 day pass.]

Like you, I also believe they can change/fix this mistake if enough people contact them to let them know they would like to have the 6 and 7 day Park Hopper passes reinstated.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments!
 
I don't understand why they don't allow to extend the tickets at least for people staying in the resort hotels.
I understand that someone might have resold partially extended tickets (but it's park fault not having a better security system). But I cannot see someone paying $2000 for 5 nights in the GCH and then reselling an unused ticket for what? $50?

I agree with you if the guests are in the resort hotels it makes no sense for them not to be able to be in the Parks for all of those days, etc... on the other hand, I believe every guest, staying at any hotel, should be able to be 'in' on the 6 or 7 day Park Hopper pass. Many of us choose to stay off-site to be able to afford to come to Disneyland in the first place, due to expensive flights, etc. Your point is certainly valid though - if I paid that much to stay at the GCH I would surely expect to be able to be in the Parks each day of my stay.
 
/
Oh much more than that. Check out eBay and Craigslist. For example, the first search comes up--2 adults and 1 child parkhopper, originally a 4-day ticket with 2 days left. The current bid if $450. The face value of the 4-day hopper is $805, so they will be making back more than half of what they paid.

And mostly it's that there are actual businesses who do this, that have a physical location that run an entire business on buying multi-day passes and selling individual days. From one ad on eBay:



Another eBay seller:


And yet another seller:


And yet another seller:


And so on and so forth. Now mind you, this is NOT illegal. However, it IS against the terms of service printed on the ticket. Simply writing in names and requiring ID from everyone all the time would really cut back on these abuses by making this process very risky.

Edited to add: DLR is really cracking down on this lately. They don't always require ID but they are doing increasingly more "spot checks" at the gates and it's more common for a CM to write a name down or require a signature the first time they are used. It's not perfect, but this is much riskier than it used to be.


That is eye opening for sure, thanks for doing the research - however, it is in very poor taste for Disney to make the guest assume financial responsibility for that type of fraud (in terms of us paying more, etc. and not being able to purchase a 6 or 7 day Park Hopper.) Just like how shop lifting raises prices in stores, so too does fraudulent activity at Disney? I can't even imagine that this would have a huge impact on their profits, it would be hard to fathom that the fraudulent ticket activity even makes a dent in their profits, especially since profit is found in meals, merchandise, etc.

Perhaps they really are seeking for others to buy more annual passes. What used to be the Happiest Place on Earth may very well feel like 'The Happiest Place on Earth IF you live nearby Anaheim' to those who have to travel a long distance to get there.

Now my question is, why does Disney not hire (security) staff to pose as buyers of the fraudulent tickets then crack down on them. If they are easy enough to find on Craig's List and eBay, can't they find them too, and do something about it? If it is against the terms of service on the back, then technically they are not allowed to sell them, and Disney would have some rights as to approaching the ticket sellers.
 
I have just seen this post & am now gutted as we have just booked a 9 night stay at GCH for next easter! The plan was to buy the 5 day hopper & add an extra 3 days. As we are coming from the UK an AP is an expensive option at several hundred dollars extra a piece :eek:. I have just sent my email to disney. Lets hope they change their policy soon.
 
Well I've emailed. Right in the middle of it I remembered from the disunplugged podcast that a while back at least, it was possible to use WDW tickets at Disneyland. I will be visiting WDW for 7 days in November and excitedly thought, ooh I can double check that and then buy a longer ticket. Thinking the extra days wouldn't cost much but I'd forgotten about the non expiration charge. Just buying the additional 2 days that I'd need would cost 251.34 dollars.

It looks like they really just want me to vacation elsewhere at this point although I do have faith they will change this somehow. It makes no sense that they would want to combat the money they are losing from ticket fraud by...losing more money :confused3!

Yes! Losing more money for sure. Definitely not a proactive approach to losing money from that fraud. Sorry to hear your WDW tickets won't pan out.

It's pretty easy to understand, as long as you think of it from Disney's corporate perspective. Here is the translation: "We have effectively raised admission prices by eliminating six day and longer tickets. We think our attendance will still be sufficiently high, even if some people don't stay a sixth (or seventh or eighth) day in a given trip. Our pre-opening surveys suggested people were going to go gaga over the new DCA land, and so far they have. So, tough cookies."

OIC! Thanks for the explanation, because it is a lot easier to understand now. Seems like you hit the nail on the head in deciphering that. :thumbsup2 Thanks!

I'm headed to DL for my first trip and we have 5 day park hoppers, I'd gotten all excited seeing as we decided we wanted to stay longer and go to DLR longer than that.. but if I have to buy new tickets, that ain't happening, :(

Ain't happening for most guests, I think. DLR... hmmmm... the R stands for RESORT. RESORTS usually don't try to kick you out or force you to buy annual passes. I honestly can't think that Walt Disney himself would be pleased with these attempts to limit guests/profits in the parks.

When did the ability to add extra days at the ticket booths end? The last time I was on the boards that was stiil an option.Sorry...I am on holidays and am just catching up.

AFAIK, no one is able to add on days anymore. We are hopeful on this thread that Disney will see it from our points of view, and hopefully, fingers crossed, DO something to allow the 6 and 7 day Park Hoppers to be reinstated.
 
I have just seen this post & am now gutted as we have just booked a 9 night stay at GCH for next easter! The plan was to buy the 5 day hopper & add an extra 3 days. As we are coming from the UK an AP is an expensive option at several hundred dollars extra a piece :eek:. I have just sent my email to disney. Lets hope they change their policy soon.

Good for you for sending the email. It is posts like this that break my heart - you pay soooo much $$$$$$$$$ to fly out here, and obviously would like to stay for a long period of time at the Parks. It is so expensive to add on an additional 3 day Park Hopper.

I am confident Disney is reading this thread in particular, because I have brought their attention to this thread by sending the link.
 
If the purpose is to discourage reselling of tickets - well they may as well do away with the 5 day tickets, too. As most reselling of tickets I see are for 2 or 3 days out of a 5 day park hopper! So not allowing 6 or 7 day hoppers will be only a tiny band-aid on the problem. Requiring ID seems to be the only solution to disallow cheating. Or maybe ID every 10th person or so. Maybe it will slow the lines down a bit, but I think we can all live with that.
 
If the purpose is to discourage reselling of tickets - well they may as well do away with the 5 day tickets, too. As most reselling of tickets I see are for 2 or 3 days out of a 5 day park hopper! So not allowing 6 or 7 day hoppers will be only a tiny band-aid on the problem. Requiring ID seems to be the only solution to disallow cheating. Or maybe ID every 10th person or so. Maybe it will slow the lines down a bit, but I think we can all live with that.

You got it - why ARE 5 day Park Hoppers still 'allowed' then? Excellent point! This makes me wonder how much of this is due to fraud as others have reported was Disney's reason for taking away the longer Park Hopper passes such as 6 and 7 days, and how much of this is due to desire for higher price per day Park Hoppers (5 day as opposed to 6 or 7 day), and a hope for higher sales of AP's. (?)

That is a really good idea to check IDs as it would be a huge deterrent for those wishing to use the fraudulent tickets. A random check might be more efficient... If it's every 10, I could see people shuffling around, pretending the forgot something, then coming back so they wouldn't be the 10th guest in line.
 
I posted this elsewhere, and I know people disagree with me, but this has nothing to do with ticket fraud---if it did, they would just install biometric scanners as they have at WDW (and as have other theme park operators, including Busch/Sea World and Universal.)

This is purely about getting a good return on the $1B that TWDC spent on DCA over the last several years. I don't necessarily begrudge them that, and of course I'd rather pay less than more, but it is what it is.
 
I posted this elsewhere, and I know people disagree with me, but this has nothing to do with ticket fraud---if it did, they would just install biometric scanners as they have at WDW (and as have other theme park operators, including Busch/Sea World and Universal.)

This is purely about getting a good return on the $1B that TWDC spent on DCA over the last several years. I don't necessarily begrudge them that, and of course I'd rather pay less than more, but it is what it is.

I do believe ticket fraud does play a part, but perhaps not a big one. As you and others have pointed out, there are simple solutions that are even cheaper than biometrics.

And I get that TDA wants to recover revenue from the DCA expansion (as well as the Matterhorn refurb and the upcoming new PFF). But economically, I have to wonder if it even makes sense to turn people away. Take the average family and how much money they spend in the parks over a 7-day PH pass and subtract the average money a family pays on a 5-day PH, and see if the difference is greater than the small loss of adding additional days.

It really comes down to what the market will bear, and I really do think that TDA believes that big fans will be willing to pay such a steep price difference to stay longer than 5 days. But I also think they are mistakenly overestimating people's willingness to pay that. That's why emails that explicitly say that an extended trip was shortened or canceled due directly to ticket prices are important.
 
I do believe ticket fraud does play a part, but perhaps not a big one. As you and others have pointed out, there are simple solutions that are even cheaper than biometrics.

And I get that TDA wants to recover revenue from the DCA expansion (as well as the Matterhorn refurb and the upcoming new PFF). But economically, I have to wonder if it even makes sense to turn people away. Take the average family and how much money they spend in the parks over a 7-day PH pass and subtract the average money a family pays on a 5-day PH, and see if the difference is greater than the small loss of adding additional days.

It really comes down to what the market will bear, and I really do think that TDA believes that big fans will be willing to pay such a steep price difference to stay longer than 5 days. But I also think they are mistakenly overestimating people's willingness to pay that. That's why emails that explicitly say that an extended trip was shortened or canceled due directly to ticket prices are important.

I know we will never stay longer than 5 days in the parks on future DLR trips as long as this policy is in place.
 
I posted this elsewhere, and I know people disagree with me, but this has nothing to do with ticket fraud---if it did, they would just install biometric scanners as they have at WDW (and as have other theme park operators, including Busch/Sea World and Universal.)

This is purely about getting a good return on the $1B that TWDC spent on DCA over the last several years. I don't necessarily begrudge them that, and of course I'd rather pay less than more, but it is what it is.

The "getting a good return on the $1B" was done with the 20% across-the-board ticket price increase. A very small percentage of 2011-2012 DLR guests were on 6+ day passes.

The old tickets were 6 day park hoppers that could easily be upgraded to 8 days at the booths. Now the max days has been reduced from 8 days to 5 days, making it significantly tougher to split the days amongst multiple parties. Orange County soccer moms are not happy that they can't pool together to save as much money anymore.


Don't get me wrong. Disney can do whatever they want to do. Guests will adjust to the length of stay in which they see the most value. Just don't try to tell me you want people to stay 6 days one day, and then remove 6 day tickets the next.

Ultimately, I think HydroGuy's lead is right. Disney will decide to spend the money to upgrade the entrances and tickets with biometrics, and they'll bring back the old ticket offerings.
 
I sent my email and they responded that they would forward it on that divison. Don't know if it will do any good though. I always do the 6 day hopper, but next year, it's going to be a shorter stay.
 
I posted this elsewhere, and I know people disagree with me, but this has nothing to do with ticket fraud---if it did, they would just install biometric scanners as they have at WDW (and as have other theme park operators, including Busch/Sea World and Universal.)

This is purely about getting a good return on the $1B that TWDC spent on DCA over the last several years. I don't necessarily begrudge them that, and of course I'd rather pay less than more, but it is what it is.

It does look like it has little to do with ticket fraud. Getting a good return doesn't look as successful for them with offering the former 6 and 7 day passes. It is what it is, but maybe we can get them to change it back if enough people speak out about it to them. :)

I do believe ticket fraud does play a part, but perhaps not a big one. As you and others have pointed out, there are simple solutions that are even cheaper than biometrics.

And I get that TDA wants to recover revenue from the DCA expansion (as well as the Matterhorn refurb and the upcoming new PFF). But economically, I have to wonder if it even makes sense to turn people away. Take the average family and how much money they spend in the parks over a 7-day PH pass and subtract the average money a family pays on a 5-day PH, and see if the difference is greater than the small loss of adding additional days.

It really comes down to what the market will bear, and I really do think that TDA believes that big fans will be willing to pay such a steep price difference to stay longer than 5 days. But I also think they are mistakenly overestimating people's willingness to pay that. That's why emails that explicitly say that an extended trip was shortened or canceled due directly to ticket prices are important.

I bolded all of the great observations and comments you made! Excellent post. Thanks!

I know we will never stay longer than 5 days in the parks on future DLR trips as long as this policy is in place.

This is actually what Disney wants to hear, I think - they maybe think some will upgrade to an AP, but they know that the gates are constantly flooded with people now, so they are not actively trying to gain loyal clients anymore. It's sad that they giveth and then they taketh away. We thought all of the refurbishments would be an improvement, but instead, it brought forth a huge detriment!

The "getting a good return on the $1B" was done with the 20% across-the-board ticket price increase. A very small percentage of 2011-2012 DLR guests were on 6+ day passes.

The old tickets were 6 day park hoppers that could easily be upgraded to 8 days at the booths. Now the max days has been reduced from 8 days to 5 days, making it significantly tougher to split the days amongst multiple parties. Orange County soccer moms are not happy that they can't pool together to save as much money anymore.


Don't get me wrong. Disney can do whatever they want to do. Guests will adjust to the length of stay in which they see the most value. Just don't try to tell me you want people to stay 6 days one day, and then remove 6 day tickets the next.

Ultimately, I think HydroGuy's lead is right. Disney will decide to spend the money to upgrade the entrances and tickets with biometrics, and they'll bring back the old ticket offerings.

I bolded your excellent points...I also think HydroGuy has a good hunch.
 
I sent my email and they responded that they would forward it on that divison. Don't know if it will do any good though. I always do the 6 day hopper, but next year, it's going to be a shorter stay.


Thanks for sending in an email to them and for replying to this post. The more that write in, the more Disney will understand about it. I hope everyone who has written in will post here saying they have done so.
 













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