Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[AstroBlasters]

You are evading the question. Do you think gaining an advantage with money is ok?

What planet are we living on? The whole morality injection into this just makes me laugh…..

 

[Tatebeck]

The rules say you're allowed to modify reservations also. Maybe I'm just a poor vacation planner.

It is not really the modifications that would be the issue here according to the current rules, it would be when a member made the initial booking that is suspect

 

[dvcsince93]

DVC has a way to bring member's views regarding issues to the powers that be, all you have to do it send in your comments and they can be reviewed and forwarded to the people tasked with that issue. I have done it and I can tell you they do get back to you.

I would recommend everyone who cares about this or any issue to try it.

 

[Brian Noble]

You are evading the question. Do you think gaining an advantage with money is ok?

In a capitalist system, yes money grants advantages, and it is by definition okay. And you know what they say about capitalism: It's the worst economic system, except for all the others.

Even asking this question on a discussion board with the topic of luxury timeshares that cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in actual US currency...well, it's a choice, that's for sure.

 

[zavandor]

What planet are we living on? The whole morality injection into this just makes me laugh…..

To clarify: my question was not for who is against walking, it's a legitimate position (and BTW I am against walking, I just think it's not such a big problem, not worth losing flexibility to fix it).
I am questioning people who say it's unfair to walk, but are happy to pay their way for an advantage. How is using effort and knowledge unfair, but using money isn't?
I don't like using LL, I don't walk, but I don't judge people who do.

 

[TCRAIG]

Tell people if they walk, their reservations will be canceled. Use computer analytics to determine who is walking. Keep the public facing rule simple yet ambiguous (no walking allowed), have a clearly defined rule behind the scenes. Kind of like commercial renting, except actually enforce it. It’s prohibited, but nobody knows the exact threshold that will trigger cancelation. Let people play stupid games trying to find another self advantageous loophole to exploit and watch their reservations canceled.

I would not want DVC to put in any sort of booking ‘rule’ without defined parameters…I don’t think you can tell members not to walk and not define what is considered walking…then they would be open to lawsuits. And no, I’m not a lawyer - but my daughter, sister, brother, brother in law, nephew and a myriad of other family members are…
I am a techie - you still need to develop/code/test/install/maintain any computer analytics and hire staff to use the results of said process to determine who is walking…so there’s that too.

 

[lowlight]

DVC has a way to bring member's views regarding issues to the powers that be, all you have to do it send in your comments and they can be reviewed and forwarded to the people tasked with that issue. I have done it and I can tell you they do get back to you.

I would recommend everyone who cares about this or any issue to try it.

You can also voice a complaint with the Florida timeshare division. The next step after that is likely litigious in nature, and that’s a huge hurdle to overcome 1) finding someone willing to represent and 2) having the funds.

 

[Sandisw]

It would be hard to prove that they sold you the contract under false pretenses since DVC would argue they did not know or condone walking when they sold the contracts. The fact that walking starting happening or even grew would not be enough.

However, the wildcard in this situation is that the board of DVC has a fiduciary duty to all members. In theory, if a group of members can show that they are adversely affected by other members violating the T&C by, e.g., walking or commercial rentals, DVC may have no option but to act or risk being sued.

Personally, that is one reason I believe DVC is saying the problem isn't great, because the existence of big problems would open them up to liability.

I also think they will to do something about both walking and commercial renting because both activites negatively impact members trying to use the membership as set forth in the T&C, thus, setting themselves up for possible liability whereas banning both activities would only impact members who are violating at least the spirit if not the letter of the contract provisions.

But isn’t that the key to the debate? Not everyone agrees that walking currently a violation of the rules or the T and Cs as they exist today.

As pointed out, DVC gets to decide and maybe the reason they haven’t done anything could be that they don’t see it as a current violation?

They stated it “goes against the spirit” of the rule last week…but that is as far as they went.

 

[Brian Noble]

I am questioning people who say it's unfair to walk, but are happy to pay their way for an advantage. How is using effort and knowledge unfair, but using money isn't?

This is pretty simple. "I'd rather spend money than time, and a system that makes me spend time instead of money must be unfair somehow."

 

[lowlight]

I would not want DVC to put in any sort of booking ‘rule’ without defined parameters…I don’t think you can tell members not to walk and not define what is considered walking…then they would be open to lawsuits. And no, I’m not a lawyer - but my daughter, sister, brother, brother in law, nephew and a myriad of other family members are…
I am a techie - you still need to develop/code/test/install/maintain any computer analytics and hire staff to use the results of said process to determine who is walking…so there’s that too.

Everyone who walks knows what walking is. I thought we established walkers are the smartest, hardest workers in the room? Saying “no walking” seems like a simple enough statement. Nobody walks accidentally.

 

[lowlight]

As pointed out, DVC gets to decide and maybe the reason they haven’t done anything could be that they don’t see it as a current violation?

Why do you think that in a two party contract only one party gets to decide what it means? It’s actually the courts that get to decide when there is not an agreement between the two parties.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Then apparently you have faster fingers than many of your competitors. I cannot imagine that TWDC IT managed to build in performance fuzzing---at least, not correctly.

I'm not sure where DVC's servers are physically located, but the round trip time between N. America and most of the EU is about 150ms. That's longer than human perception, and it does matter. I teach this stuff for a living.

Maybe I do have faster fingers but I definitely don’t have an advantage internet connection wise.

I’ve been able to get reservations using my cell phone, but I primarily use my laptop.

But if people tend to have the same sucky internet connection that I had when staying at bonnet creek this summer, then I totally understand why they can’t get a reservation - had to use my 4G internet instead as that was faster and more stable.

It’s so easy for people to complain that they can’t get a reservation - they could be using an old 56k v90 modem for all we know.

 

[zavandor]

This is pretty simple. "I'd rather spend money than time, and a system that makes me spend time instead of money must be unfair somehow."

Then I think we agree.

 

[Brian Noble]

the same sucky internet connection that I had when staying at bonnet creek this summer

Huh. I've never had trouble at Bonnet, but I haven't been there in a few years now.

 

[tx911]

This is pretty simple. "I'd rather spend money than time, and a system that makes me spend time instead of money must be unfair somehow."

I have no problem with that line of thought. Just make sure that all owners know about walking, know how to do it, and know that this is the only chance to get highly desired rooms. At that point, if some owners choose not to do it, it’s on them.

 

[zavandor]

For the record, I don't think it is all that important to be able to modify a reservation once you've made it, without having to cancel and rebook. Wyndham worked that way for years, and it was fine. Yes, you had to plan around booked dates sometimes, but that's why it is called "planning" a vacation.

Even now, Wyndham owners don't get unlimited modifications: +/- three days on each end, and only one shot to make any changes before it's final. That probably covers 90% of all of the legit use cases.

How competitive is Windham?
My experience is just for DVC at 7 months, trying to book sought after resorts. Piecing together reservations it's not easy. Being able to add and drop days is important to get what I want, I'd hate to lose it because getting CCV studios in December is hard.

 

[dvcsince93]

What is deflecting? You have no argument besides personal insults and attacks. You haven’t provided any evidence it’s against any rule or addressed the preponderance of evidence it’s legal within the rules and knowingly allowed by dvc. You haven’t made a single, coherent post that I recall explaining how walking can be fixed. In every post I’ve seen of yours the topic is personal insults over and over because you don’t like the practice.

If you don't know what deflecting is, go back and read your own posts. For example:

No what is really sad is you know how the system is designed to work but you are not willing to put the energy into doing it. You think you should be able to get exactly what you want, when you want without any effort and you whine when others put in more effort then you and have better results. This is the definition of entitled.

(I must admit that I am sharing your argument with DVC to see if they agree this was how they designed the system.)

As much as I enjoy the irony of your comments, I am done.

 

[TCRAIG]

Everyone who walks knows what walking is. I thought we established walkers are the smartest, hardest workers in the room? Saying “no walking” seems like a simple enough statement. Nobody walks accidentally.

I’m not saying the walkers don’t know who they are - I’m saying not all modifications are walkers walking…and DVC would need to put in processes to distinguish between the 2…and I question if those processes are worth it for such a small subset of bookings. I for one am not willing to give up any of DVCs current booking flexibility just to stop walking…nor am I willing to have a CM determine ‘intent’ and cancel bookings based on a process with no set definition.

 

[JOLT]

I have no problem with that line of thought. Just make sure that all owners know about walking, know how to do it, and know that this is the only chance to get highly desired rooms. At that point, if some owners choose not to do it, it’s on them.

But walking ISN'T the only way to get highly desired rooms. I have gotten 4 out of the 5 Club level AKL rooms during Christmas for my family trip with out walking a single reservation.

 

[Brian Noble]

know that this is the only chance to get highly desired rooms

This is clearly not true. If people are walking, they leave rooms behind that can be swept up in a waitlist or by stalking. Or, even by the not-entirely-on-the-ball owner who just happens to look for a room at exactly the right time.

I use this same trick to get both morning and afternoon parking passes at Haēna State Park on Kauai. Passes are "blocked" while people decide whether or not to buy them, and get returned to inventory after the hold expires.