Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[Sandisw]

Indeed, it has been all over the place! These walking threads are entertaining if nothing else.

I always come back to the basics of what walking is: Booking a room you have no intention of using to give an advantage over other owners who don't know about walking. I think that's wrong, so I will choose not to do it. In the end, that's all it is, a personal choice.

And I do believe that DVC wants to have booking and modification rules that meet the needs of owners as a whole group.

DVC has the data and they know how often this is happening and for which rooms. The statement indicated it’s not a widespread problem but are open to looking at things.

So, we will have to wait to see if they can find a balance between having a flexible system that many value but at the same time put safeguards to stop practices like walking that some owners prefer not be allowed.

 

[jcolvin5]

Indeed, it has been all over the place! These walking threads are entertaining if nothing else.

Indeed...dare I say a lot of passion over this topic.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

That is a direct affect of commercial sellers. AKV Value rooms are a money maker for them, as many people who rent points are looking for a good bargain, and AKV Value rooms are a good bargain. There's one seller who often has 1 day at a time on their site for rent. Commercial sellers use bots to snag rooms right at the 8am mark. This is why the real problem DVC needs to address are commercial renters (while not impacting owners ability to rent out unused points). It is in the last 5 years that commercial sellers have really picked up because of the post-covid demand for Disney travel.

That makes sense, and it also reinforces that people, including DVC members who buy points, see those as a good bargain. Those rooms should only go to DVC members. It’s one thing to allow points to be rented. It’s another to allow point rental for the most in demand rooms. What if DVC simply said that certain room types or dates could only be filled with reservations in which at least one owner was on the reservation?

 

[Spivey378]

Maybe walking abusers will start getting more frequent visits from Stitch around the 8 am hour.

 

[Leight19]

That makes sense, and it also reinforces that people, including DVC members who buy points, see those as a good bargain. Those rooms should only go to DVC members. It’s one thing to allow points to be rented. It’s another to allow point rental for the most in demand rooms. What if DVC simply said that certain room types or dates could only be filled with reservations in which at least one owner was on the reservation?

This is another change I’m against. I booked a bwv trip for my sister this past summer. I was able to get the high demand standard studio for them. If Disney made a change that prevented that I would be upset; I would never have bought dvc if they were allowed to restrict how I use my points in personal capacity.

I think commercial renters are different topic then walking but really feel like stopping them isn’t rocket science. Many people here know exactly where to find commercial renters. I’m sure if they truly cared dvc could find these big players and stop them fairly easy. My honest opinion on it is seeing how many of the big resale players are former Disney employees in dvc I’m not sure how much dvc really cares to stop it at this point. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if some current Disney dvc members are actually involved in commercial renting themselves on the side.

 

[dvcsince93]

Are you referencing a made up rule that doesn’t exist or an actual rule?

This thread has been all over the place.

Also, just a voice… not a representative. I speak alongside them, not for them.

What rule? I didn't say anything about a rule- actual or made up. I was talking about the actions and the motivations of a downtrodden group of DVC members who need to be protected from an angry anti-walking mob that you are giving voice to.

Clearly your group is ok with taking something that you don't want from someone else, why can't you just acknowledge it rather than hide behind the whole rule strawman.

 

[dcfromva]

And I do believe that DVC wants to have booking and modification rules that meet the needs of owners as a whole group.

DVC has the data and they know how often this is happening and for which rooms. The statement indicated it’s not a widespread problem but are open to looking at things.

So, we will have to wait to see if they can find a balance between having a flexible system that many value but at the same time put safeguards to stop practices like walking that some owners prefer not be allowed.

Walking does not bother me. Personally, I think the only way to stop it would be reservations go either by check out date or day by day (which is how the rules worked when I first joined). I think there would be a big uproar if Disney changed it back. For the most part going by check in date is a great convenience. I would hope that DVC would have a survey to see how all members felt about it before making any radical changes to the booking system.

I was just reflecting about my current reservation. We have BWV. We like to go between Veterans day and Thanksgiving. It is usually not a high demand period, so I don't stress about it too much. I just wait until a day opens up that I need and add it to my reservation. Anyway, some of the suggested fixes to walking that I've seen would impact the reservation that I'm trying to make on a day by day basis (at 11 months minus a day or two). And, I'm not sure these suggested fixes would be a cure to walking, either.

Also, the point that you made about it not being a widespread problem is a good one. (Of course, if you own at a particular resort where this is happening a lot--then the statistics probably don't matter much. )

 

[davidhr]

Indeed...dare I say a lot of passion over this topic.

This thread has more than 2x the comments of the commercial rental one.

I have to admit I have added a few here and nothing there (even if I consider the commercial rentals a problem) because I just like chaos.

 

[Leight19]

What rule? I didn't say anything about a rule- actual or made up. I was talking about the actions and the motivations of a downtrodden group of DVC members who need to be protected from an angry anti-walking mob that you are giving voice to.

Clearly your group is ok with taking something that you don't want from someone else, why can't you just acknowledge it rather than hide behind the whole rule strawman.

Not sure if it’s your intention but you’re coming off to me as incredibly rude here. But to your point, walkers are not taking anything they don’t want from someone else. They are in queue to get what they want and when their turn comes up the next person in line can try to get what they want. This is a known feature of the system that dvc has never made any effort to stop. Any statement that it is against rules or intent of system are baseless as nothing states it and the software is literally coded to allow it when it very easily could be coded to disallow it.

Now, I am of the impression walking does have an overall negative impact and would like to see some sort of correction but as this thread proves there’s no aligned solution. What I think is fair and can live with someone else will say messes up their way of using the system and is more detrimental than walking.

 

[jcolvin5]

Not sure if it’s your intention but you’re coming off to me as incredibly rude here. But to your point, walkers are not taking anything they don’t want from someone else. They are in queue to get what they want and when their turn comes up the next person in line can try to get what they want. This is a known feature of the system that dvc has never made any effort to stop. Any statement that it is against rules or intent of system are baseless as nothing states it and the software is literally coded to allow it when it very easily could be coded to disallow it.

Now, I am of the impression walking does have an overall negative impact and would like to see some sort of correction but as this thread proves there’s no aligned solution. What I think is fair and can live with someone else will say messes up their way of using the system and is more detrimental than walking.

You aren't wrong. A few of the anti-walking group has chosen to make sarcastic and condescending comments and have even resorted to hurling insults throughout this thread. It's uncalled for behavior and they seem to rationalize their behavior because "walkers" are "cheaters", "unfair", "selfish" "dishonest" and "scumbags".

 

[dvcsince93]

Not sure if it’s your intention but you’re coming off to me as incredibly rude here. But to your point, walkers are not taking anything they don’t want from someone else. They are in queue to get what they want and when their turn comes up the next person in line can try to get what they want. This is a known feature of the system that dvc has never made any effort to stop. Any statement that it is against rules or intent of system are baseless as nothing states it and the software is literally coded to allow it when it very easily could be coded to disallow it.

Now, I am of the impression walking does have an overall negative impact and would like to see some sort of correction but as this thread proves there’s no aligned solution. What I think is fair and can live with someone else will say messes up their way of using the system and is more detrimental than walking.

Making a reservation that you have no intent of using is the very definition of taking something you don't want. In fact, most walkers make multiple reservations, none of which include a date that they want.

And you are not in queue-if you were you would be making reservations for the dates you do want.

As for rudeness, walking is incredibly rude to everyone but the walker.

 

[tx911]

Not sure if it’s your intention but you’re coming off to me as incredibly rude here. But to your point, walkers are not taking anything they don’t want from someone else. They are in queue to get what they want and when their turn comes up the next person in line can try to get what they want. This is a known feature of the system that dvc has never made any effort to stop. Any statement that it is against rules or intent of system are baseless as nothing states it and the software is literally coded to allow it when it very easily could be coded to disallow it.

Now, I am of the impression walking does have an overall negative impact and would like to see some sort of correction but as this thread proves there’s no aligned solution. What I think is fair and can live with someone else will say messes up their way of using the system and is more detrimental than walking.

This has become a circular argument, as all of these threads do when there are groups on opposing sides.

The reservation system is not a queue. We don't line up, and it's in no way analogous to a line.

If you truly believe that the intent of the reservation system is to book dates that you don't actually intend to stay, and then incrementally move them until you reach your desired dates, thereby obtaining first dibs, nothing I say would change your mind. But if that is in fact the way the system is intended to work, make it known to all owners.

Every owner gets an explanation as to how booking works when they buy in. 11 months, 7 months, banking etc. If walking is the intended way for things to work, include an explanation of such in the orientation to the product. But you don't want this, because then your tactic will no longer work.

 

[Disneyepcot]

Quick question, if they eliminate the +7, for example, which would kill walking, then I assume this large group of people will have to sell their contracts since they will never be able to have a personal family vacation again?

Yes! Selling is exactly what I’m thinking about if I’m unable to walk to get my birthday at Disney which is the first week of December. You all are scaring me but I’m reading all of this anyway as though it’s a horror movie and I’m waiting for what’s going to happen.

 

[tx911]

Yes! Selling is exactly what I’m thinking about if I’m unable to walk to get my birthday at Disney which is the first week of December. You all are scaring me but I’m reading all of this anyway as though it’s a horror movie and I’m waiting for what’s going to happen.

Yes, if DVC changes the rules such that the product no longer pleases some owners, they may have to sell.

The truth is, you don't walking preserved for everyone. You only want a small subset of owners to be walkers, because that's the only reason it works.

 

[jcolvin5]

Yes! Selling is exactly what I’m thinking about if I’m unable to walk to get my birthday at Disney which is the first week of December. You all are scaring me but I’m reading all of this anyway as though it’s a horror movie and I’m waiting for what’s going to happen.

I'd start asap

 

[zavandor]

My perspective as an owner at SSR, where no room is walked, ever, so not speaking for my personal gain.

I agree that walking is against the spirit of the rules and that the world would be a better place without it.
Also, when walkers move on they leave single days to be picked up and that could leave people with shorter or split stays that cause the rooms to be cleaned more often. That can increase dues for everyone.

But, it's here, some people do it, so I cannot blame other people doing it. Even more so since MS have explained how to do it to people on the phone. I don't think it's unethical, it's self-defense.

DVC has said it's a limited phenomenon. With which I think they mean that only for some rooms it's really a problem (the standards, values and CL rooms) and often not even all year around. I'd be surprised if more than 1% of nights is walked every year. You don't hire a million cops to stand at every corner of the streets to fine people that litter. Any response must be proportionate to the problem.
Which come the most important point: I don't want to be penalized because some people walk. I book the scraps at 7 months. I book, stalk, waitlist, cancel and change my way to a jigsaw of reservations until I get what I want. I'd hate if this flexibility goes away. I have not seen any proposed rule that doesn't have the potential to affect me. Fortunately DVC has acknowledged this.

 

[Leight19]

Making a reservation that you have no intent of using is the very definition of taking something you don't want. In fact, most walkers make multiple reservations, none of which include a date that they want.

And you are not in queue-if you were you would be making reservations for the dates you do want.

As for rudeness, walking is incredibly rude to everyone but the walker.

If I’m walking I signed in before you and booked a room before you. I am then moving fonward as you follow behind and try to get what I passed. I mean there’s literally a waiting list where you can then be first in queue to get that room after I walk by and release it. That’s basically the definition of a line and I haven’t taken anything besides a spot in line before the next person eventually gets it.

As I’ve stated before the system is literally designed/coded to work this way. It easily could have been coded a way that doesn’t allow it. Walkers aren’t hacking the system or doing something amoral they are literally using the system the way it is known to work for years. Theres nothing rude about being willing to put in a little effort to get the room you want when it’s a room category known to have inventory issues.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

This is another change I’m against. I booked a bwv trip for my sister this past summer. I was able to get the high demand standard studio for them. If Disney made a change that prevented that I would be upset; I would never have bought dvc if they were allowed to restrict how I use my points in personal capacity.

I think commercial renters are different topic then walking but really feel like stopping them isn’t rocket science. Many people here know exactly where to find commercial renters. I’m sure if they truly cared dvc could find these big players and stop them fairly easy. My honest opinion on it is seeing how many of the big resale players are former Disney employees in dvc I’m not sure how much dvc really cares to stop it at this point. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if some current Disney dvc members are actually involved in commercial renting themselves on the side.

 

[JOLT]

Every owner gets an explanation as to how booking works when they buy in. 11 months, 7 months, banking etc. If walking is the intended way for things to work, include an explanation of such in the orientation to the product. But you don't want this, because then your tactic will no longer work.

I dont think I was ever told I can book 11+7. I also wasn't told 90% of the things I can do with my DVC points. they just give you a basic overview. All the resale owners dont get a crash course on how to book either. to say its unfair because people dont know how and that DVC doesn't have a tutorial is weird to me. Thats the reality of life you might not know all the "loopholes" or tips and tricks.

I HATE 8am bookings too much anxiety so I never try to walk but if you are going to spend the effort to modify a reservation every day or 2 you do you.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

This is another change I’m against. I booked a bwv trip for my sister this past summer. I was able to get the high demand standard studio for them. If Disney made a change that prevented that I would be upset; I would never have bought dvc if they were allowed to restrict how I use my points in personal capacity.

I think commercial renters are different topic then walking but really feel like stopping them isn’t rocket science. Many people here know exactly where to find commercial renters. I’m sure if they truly cared dvc could find these big players and stop them fairly easy. My honest opinion on it is seeing how many of the big resale players are former Disney employees in dvc I’m not sure how much dvc really cares to stop it at this point. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if some current Disney dvc members are actually involved in commercial renting themselves on the side.

Except you are not personally using your membership. Your sister is. She is not an owner. I firmly believe that owners should get first priority for hard to book rooms, especially at the 11 month mark. If all owners and only owners had a fair shot at the 11 month mark, that to me is ‘fair’. I realize you disagree. If someone doesn’t want to buy because non owners wait behind owners, I think most owners would approve. I realize you disagree.