Are RIV point charts REALLY that might higher?!

[Can_Dannn]

Doing some research - we have not bought yet - seriously considering Riviera

Playing out some scenarios - see attached points needed for vacations in next year.

RIV POINTS DON'T SEEM MUCH HIGHER?
POLY- VGF - ALAUNI - VGC all see much higher (see picture)

Why are people saying they are higher?!

 

[Sanwich]

I can’t speak for the non-Florida resorts, but I think it’s more about perceived value vs literal point totals. A lot of people view VGF and Poly as “premium” locations (on the monorail, VGF is supposed to be Disney World’s flagship resort, etc). The same folks don’t think RIV merits similarly high point costs because its location isn’t as directly close to parks and it’s right next to a moderate hotel, etc.

I also think when folks say RIV has “high” costs, they mean in comparison to the “good old days” of BWV, BRV, AKL, and other older resorts. Especially going from CCV costs (which were only as low as they were to match BRV), RIV seems a lot higher in comparison. While in my personal opinion, I do think points per night are getting a little crazy, I also think there is no way DVC is ever going back to those lower point costs per week. I'm expecting all future DVC resorts to be at RIV levels or higher in point cost... it’s sadly just the “new normal”.

 

[skippytx]

In certain situations they're not as bad. In others they're much higher.

A 7 night stay in March, my usual trip, in a std 1 bedroom unit at BLT is 268 points. RIV standard is 321. 2Bedroom Std is almost 60 points higher.

Also Riv gets compared to BCV and BWV since it's close to EPCOT, 2 resorts with really low point charts.

My 7 night March stay is 100 more points at Riv instead of BWV.

 

[Sandisw]

I think it does come down to it not being in line with some of the older resorts whose point charts are lower.

As mentioned, compared to BWV and BCV, it will cost you more to stay at Rivera. However, they are ot out of line with some of the newer resorts of BLT, Poly, or VGF,

I do not think you can use CCV because I think they were forced To keep points lower there to be in line with BRV.

So, for someone like me who is going to stay at resorts whose charts are similar, like Poly and VGF, I don’t see it as a huge deal. I will also be visiting more often now on a solo trip and to be honest, won’t need more than a tower studio for those trips.

It still comes down to preference and cheaper may not always mean better. While I can maybe stay 7 nights at SSR for the cost of 5 at Rivera, if being at Rivera is important to me, I’d rather stay less nights to be where I want,

 

[aoconnor]

One thing to keep in mind is that the majority of the rooms at RIV are preferred view (I believe people figured out it is ~75% to get to the proper point totals).

When you consider that, the point cost for the average room at Riviera is actually *higher* than almost any resort including the Grand Floridian. For example, one week during October:

GFV - studios average 135 points (36% lake view/ 64% standard)
RIV - studios average 141 points (75% preferred view / 25% standard)

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Check out this awesome thread by @ray3127

https://www.disboards.com/threads/common-size-points-charts.3774514/

 

[_auroraborealis_]

VGF and Poly are attached to existing resorts that have reputation. GF is traditionally the flagship. Poly is one of the originals, and beloved by many, with a heavy nostalgia factor.

Riviera is cut from fresh cloth and until it opens, it's all hype. No one knows what substance will be there. And especially given DVC management of the last 10 years, there is concern that the substance will be far less than the hype.

 

[kboo]

My other home resorts are VGF and BLT. The RIV point chart seems to fall in between the two of them, which feels to me about right. Standard RIV costs about the same as LV BLT, which is about the same or a little less than LV VGF. The finishes and feel of the model rooms are more along the lines of VGF, but with the murphy beds in the LR.

 

[ray3127]

While not quite as high as VGF & Poly, the charts are still relatively high compared to the other WDW properties

Combine that with the highest dues of the WDW properties, and that is where a lot of the chatter comes from. I thought this would be mitigated some with a big spike in 2020 dues at the BCVs, BWVs, BLTs, etc, but that spike did not come to fruition. So the gap remains substantial.

 

[Matty B13]

Combine that with the highest dues of the WDW properties, and that is where a lot of the chatter comes from. I thought this would be motivated some with a big spike in 2020 dues at the BCVs, BWVs, BLTs, etc, but that spike did not come to fruition. So the gap remains substantial.

DVC can't just jack up the price of MF's to help sell another resort, and make those MF's look reasonable. They could get into a lot of trouble it they did, and once word got out that they did this would you really trust DVC again?

 

[Madame]

DVC can't just jack up the price of MF's to help sell another resort, and make those MF's look reasonable. They could get into a lot of trouble it they did, and once word got out that they did this would you really trust DVC again?

They tried to jack up the point charts of the other EP resorts to do just that I wouldn’t put anything past them at this point.

 

[ray3127]

DVC can't just jack up the price of MF's to help sell another resort, and make those MF's look reasonable. They could get into a lot of trouble it they did, and once word got out that they did this would you really trust DVC again?

I understand/agree. It seemed like many expected an increase for 2020 similar to what we saw in 2019 (which were fairly large across the board). This was mostly due to the minimum wage increasing, and since it is being phased in it seemed like most thought 2020 would be another big bump. Riviera started high, but the others would catch up a bit after this increase. But the increase didn't happen. Riviera stayed flat (small decrease I think), but many of the others (not all) had very small increases.

 

[Sandisw]

While not quite as high as VGF & Poly, the charts are still relatively high compared to the other WDW properties

Combine that with the highest dues of the WDW properties, and that is where a lot of the chatter comes from. I thought this would be mitigated some with a big spike in 2020 dues at the BCVs, BWVs, BLTs, etc, but that spike did not come to fruition. So the gap remains substantial.

Dues are not substantial in relation to all resorts as OKW, AKW, and BRV, are around $.50 to $.75 less per point, give or take. At least I don’t see that as a substantial difference.

Of course, if one uses this number plus points to stay, the the “cost” per room...even forgetting about buy in. it is definitely going to be a good difference and that is definitely substantial for the most part!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

But the increase didn't happen. Riviera stayed flat (small decrease I think), but many of the others (not all) had very small increases.

The Riviera dues for 2019 are a sock puppet anyway. They were basically the 2020 dues, because the 2019 dues cover 15 days of 2019.

 

[crisi]

Dues are not substantial in relation to all resorts as OKW, AKW, and BRV, are around $.50 to $.75 less per point, give or take. At least I don’t see that as a substantial difference.

Of course, if one uses this number plus points to stay, the the “cost” per room...even forgetting about buy in. it is definitely going to be a good difference and that is definitely substantial for the most part!

And that's where the old timers think its expensive. Take a BCV owner, have them stay next to Epcot with SAB for 15 points a night (Adventure Season Studio) with $7.06 in dues - ignoring the buy in cost because you've owned for a dozen years and made your ROI, and you have a nightly cost of $105.90. If its a BWV standard view, you get 10 points a night and $7.36 in dues - $70.26 a night. Go over to Riveria and you'll have 15 for a standard view - at $8.30 a point ($124.5 per night) or a preferred view at $18 ($150.5 a night). The best apples to apples comparison is BW Preferred to RIV preferred so you aren't arguing about views - $110 to $150 - 40% more expensive.

Dues are the most expensive part of owning DVC. Higher points per night requirement means more points for the same number of nights which means more dues at a resort where the dues are high. Disney has tended to estimate pre-opening dues low (probably to make sales more attractive). For a BWV owner (of 15+ years) RIV looks very expensive.

But old times think all of the newer resorts are expensive.

 

[crisi]

The Riviera dues for 2019 are a sock puppet anyway. They were basically the 2020 dues, because the 2019 dues cover 15 days of 2019.

At this point Riviera dues are estimated. It will be two or three years yet before we know what dues will truly mesh out to be, because Disney won't know actual operating costs for a few years. There may be a significant decrease. Its more likely (and more in line with Disney's past practices), that there will be an increase out of line with the other resorts and inflation and they have estimated them low - it helps sales to be able to pitch low dues and as long as its a justifiable estimate (unlike the pre-open Aulani numbers), Disney is good legally.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

At this point Riviera dues are estimated. It will be two or three years yet before we know what dues will truly mesh out to be, because Disney won't know actual operating costs for a few years. There may be a significant decrease. Its more likely (and more in line with Disney's past practices), that there will be an increase out of line with the other resorts and inflation and they have estimated them low - it helps sales to be able to pitch low dues and as long as its a justifiable estimate (unlike the pre-open Aulani numbers), Disney is good legally.

Yeah, my point is more that you'd not expect much of a shift at all in dues for Riviera 2019 to 2020, and their relationship to dues anywhere else is fairly weak save that there are likely standard staffing efficiency numbers that are in play based on number of units, unit mix and expected occupancy rates relative to unit mix (particularly when looking at how often a unit turns over, and lock offs).

(and what I mean by that last is where you have stuff like bungalows and cabins, those sound like they turn over more than studios tend to, 2BRs take longer to clean than a studio, etc. And I bet the numeric assumptions exist.)

 

[ray3127]

The Riviera dues for 2019 are a sock puppet anyway. They were basically the 2020 dues, because the 2019 dues cover 15 days of 2019.

Right. I didn't expect an increase at Riviera in 2020. But I did expect another 8-10% increase at Beach Club, Bay Lake, etc., to bring those more in line with Riviera (and due to minimum wage increases). A couple resorts had big bumps, but many did not. I was shocked at how little Beach Club increased.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Doing some research - we have not bought yet - seriously considering Riviera

Playing out some scenarios - see attached points needed for vacations in next year.

RIV POINTS DON'T SEEM MUCH HIGHER?
POLY- VGF - ALAUNI - VGC all see much higher (see picture)

Why are people saying they are higher?!


View attachment 456169

Who says POLY-VGF-AULANI and VGC aren't higher than normal? All are too high IMHO but to each his own. RIV point chart is putting it in the same category and that's a high bar to get over. Will Reflections be the same? They better be planning on putting in some sort of special transportation if that's the case, because its location is not as good as the WL resorts.

 

[skier_pete]

It's about location. Riviera is pretty on par with BLT and a little lower than VGF and Poly. However, those are all MK resorts. Riviera is much higher than BCV and BWV - the resorts that I would consider it most comparable too. The other thing with Riviera, is even though you are looking at Standard view, that's only 25% of the resort - so the wise thing to do is compare most common point category to most common. So compare BCV Lake to RIV Preferred. (And realizing most of those "preferred" views are of looking at CBR or the pool. Yes some rooms will have a view that can see the fireworks at either Epcot or DHS, but my estimate saying at most that's probably 15-20% of the rooms.

The point numbers are not OUTRAGEOUS in my view, but they are on the high side, when combined with the MF and the location I do think that should be considered a factor in purchasing. (I love the Poly, but have not bought there for the same reason, that the point per night cost is too high. )