Apparently I dislike FP+...alot

[wisblue]

I think when a lot of people are talking about there "never being waits" - they are referring to when *they* have visited and experienced the parks. So if they do not go to WDW during the crazy busy holidays, then there statement of "[insert ride here] never had a wait" isn't automatically hyperbole. It's their experience, which would definitely be different than those who travel over the holidays.

Personally, I have never seen a wait for Figment. We have always walked right on to the ride. So *if* we see a wait when we go to Epcot next week, I will be one saying "wow, I have never seen a wait for Figment before" - and it won't be hyperbole. We avoid holidays like Christmas intentionally as much as possible. I totally understand that those who visit during those times have a much different experience than those who don't. But that doesn't change my experience of never seeing a wait either.

It seems like your standards for taking things literally is different when the statements are made by someone on your "side".

If someone said "Paper FP's for popular attractions like Soarin, Test Track, and TSMM were ALWAYS gone by noon", you and your cohorts would be all over that, and wouldn't be excusing it as "well, he meant they were always gone when he was there".

I didn't say anything about Figment, where I don't think a posted 25 minute wait is typical now, and where I really doubt that the actual wait would be that long even when it is posted as that long.

I have agreed all along that FP+ probably has resulted in longer standby lines at SOME attractions. But, I do disagree with the suggestions (or the flat out statements) that it has caused standby lines to increase by 25-30 minutes or more on a regular basis.

Most of the discussions about increased standby lines have focused on more popular secondary attractions at MK like the ones I mentioned. When the discussion turns to Figment, something most people do not have high on their priority list, things have gotten almost silly.

 

[Disneylover99]

I'll be going in December, and like a lot of the people here, we had perfected the art of the paper fast pass system. This will be my first experience using the new fp+ and so far I'm not happy with what I'm having to do in order to "enhance our experience". I have dining reservations and fp times so closely lined up that if anything outside of the scripted plan goes awry then something will be missed or I stand to be charged $10.00 pp for missing an ADR. I am finding it difficult to create time to go to DTD and going back to the room to chill and perhaps take a swim (weather permitting) is a pipe dream. Right now I'm trying to figure out transportation in order to get to DTD and then make it to my lunch ADR on time; this is letting the rest of my party go on to the park and heading out on my own. There are other times I may have to leave an attraction early in order to show up for my ADR on time. Yes, I have allowed plenty of time between fp events, but I'm also planning for something that may go wrong (ride go down, excessive fp wait time, etc, and heaven forbid the 20 month old should want to nap).

Mentally exhausting isn't it? We also have a December trip planned. We will be at DW for 10 days over Christmas but we opted out of daily ADR's because of FP+. It's a lot of work trying to pull it all together.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Whether or not it's your last time at WDW, I hope you have a marvelous time.

Thank you. I'll be viewing through the eyes of a 4 year old and a 20 month old, so I know I'll at least have that enjoyment. They will be blissfully unaware of all the planning that has gone into making this happen and that in itself will make this a wonderful experience. Just speaking for my own enjoyment aside from theirs, this may be a once in a lifetime trip for them, lol.

 

[wisblue]

Just as it's your MO to call anyone's post who disagrees with yours, "hyperbole".

The statement that a ride (even a ride like Figment) never had a wait before is, by simple dictionary definition, a hyperbole.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Mentally exhausting isn't it? We also have a December trip planned. We will be at DW for 10 days over Christmas but we opted out of daily ADR's because of FP+. It's a lot of work trying to pull it all together.

Yes, and add to that 2 latecomers who are staying offsite, lol! Have a wonderful vacation!

 

[wisblue]

Don't be silly. You aren't the only one to mock others with the term "hyperbole".

Or are you?

I didn't realize that using the word hyperbole according to its proper dictionary meaning was mocking to others.

 

[Disneylover99]

Most of the discussions about increased standby lines have focused on more popular secondary attractions at MK like the ones I mentioned. When the discussion turns to Figment, something most people do not have high on their priority list, things have gotten almost silly.

I have to say that standing in line at Figment for an extra two minutes while FP people passed me in line really bugged me. Is that silly? Absolutely! But it happened to me and it made me insane!

 

[Laketravis]

When the discussion turns to Figment, something most people do not have high on their priority list, things have gotten almost silly.

But that's the point, Wis - Figment is now put out there front and center as an FP choice and in some cases pre-picked as one of three for the user.

So you might not think it's "high on their priority list" but it's most definitely more a part of guest's FP selections now. I bet it's even picked often as a throw-away FP but then gets used anyway. Which means more people are steered to that attraction, which means there are now wait times when there previously weren't.

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Disneylover99]

Have a wonderful vacation!

Thanks! You too!

 

[Suvadoo]

Lake Travis is not mocking you. He is mocking me and ridiculing my opinions as usual.

I am used to it because his MO has been clearly established.

I have to say that standing in line at Figment for an extra two minutes while FP people passed me in line really bugged me. Is that silly? Absolutely! But it happened to me and it made me insane!

Now,disneylover surely this is untrue! Because according to Wisblue,this is just hyperbole! Or is it a "figment" of your imagination?

 

[wisblue]

You choose to be incredibly selective in your arguments about what I'm saying. In the first section you take exception to my saying FP+ created waits to secondary attractions. I used the example of Figment. Can you tell me when Figment had a wait, except during the holidays? I get tired of this dismissive use of the word "hyperbole" I provided a very concrete example.

There have been posters on the boards who have said that once they used there FP's for the day, there was nothing else available (that they were interested in doing) at the kiosks, so they left. So 3-4 rides and then gone. One person yesterday said they did Universal during the day and then returned to WDW at night to do the 3 FP attractions.

In my past visits, I have been able to go on at least 10 rides per day (prior to FP+). I don't think this can be characterized as inefficient touring.

But regardless of what you say, there are people on the boards who are beginning to question the value of a WDW vacation, and these people are Disney's biggest fans.

Yes, I know I was being selective, which is why I highlighted the things you presented as facts that I was questioning.

I addressed the issue of rides "never" having a wait in my response to Angel Ariel.

The other statement was that FP+ only allows some guests to do 3-4 attractions in a day without a long wait. FP+ allows a guest to do much more than that without long waits, even at busy times. But, if someone is unwilling to do anything without a FP, and is only interested in a small percentage of a park's attractions, then he or she has made a choice. It's not something forced on them by FP+.

I get that there are a number of regular Disney guests who are deciding that Disney isn't for them anymore. That is their decision and I really don't care what any of them do.

But, I do object to giving the impression for first time or infrequent guests that "FP+ only allows you to do 3-4 attractions without a long wait." I could call it a hyperbole, but because that word has suddenly become offensive to you, I will call it a gross exaggeration.

 

[Suvadoo]

Yes, I know I was being selective, which is why I highlighted the things you presented as facts that I was questioning.

I addressed the issue of rides "never" having a wait in my response to Angel Ariel.

The other statement was that FP+ only allows some guests to do 3-4 attractions in a day without a long wait. FP+ allows a guest to do much more than that without long waits, even at busy times. But, if someone is unwilling to do anything without a FP, and is only interested in a small percentage of a park's attractions, then he or she has made a choice. It's not something forced on them by FP+.

I get that there are a number of regular Disney guests who are deciding that Disney isn't for them anymore. That is their decision and I really don't care what any of them do.

But, I do object to giving the impression for first time or infrequent guests that "FP+ only allows you to do 3-4 attractions without a long wait." I could call it a hyperbole, but because that word has suddenly become offensive to you, I will call it a gross exaggeration.

Yes, by all means pull out that trite excuse that you are trying to protect Disney neophytes from criticisms of Disney. After all, Disney really needs your protection! Contrary to your assertions, there are people who are experiencing less with FP+, as evidenced by previous posts.

 

[Laketravis]

.....I do object to giving the impression for first time or infrequent guests that "FP+ only allows you to do 3-4 attractions without a long wait."

Don't worry, they'll probably reach that conclusion on their own once they get inside the parks.

 

[wisblue]

But that's the point, Wis - Figment is now put out there front and center as an FP choice and in some cases pre-picked as one of three for the user.

So you might not think it's "high on their priority list" but it's most definitely more a part of guest's FP selections now. I bet it's even picked often as a throw-away FP but then gets used anyway. Which means more people are steered to that attraction, which means there are now wait times when there previously weren't.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Why is it so hard for YOU to understand that that is not my point? The English language has a lot of wonderful words that people can use to make a statement without exaggerating it.

I guess a see a difference between

"This ride never had a wait before but now it has waits of 25 minutes"

and

"This ride rarely had a wait before, except during the busiest times of the year. Now it sometimes has posted wait times of 10-15 minutes, and once last week I even saw a posted wait time of 25 minutes. Of course, because I didn't actually get in the line, the actual wait may have been significantly less than 25 minutes. But, it was still unusual to see even a posted wait time that long".

I really don't care if you and the others who are lamenting the passing of paper FPs decide that WDW is no longer a good vacation value for you. But, I do feel bad when first time and infrequent guests come to this site looking for help and come away terrified that their trip is going to be a disaster because of the drumbeat of negative comments.

I know that you find your dismissive and mocking comments to be humorous and clever, and there are usually plenty of your supporters around to back you up. Personally, I find them to be childish and not conducive to having a civil discussion.

 

[wisblue]

Don't worry, they'll probably reach that conclusion on their own once they get inside the parks.

If you come back from your upcoming 16 day trip for which you have already chosen your FPs and tell us that you were only able to do 3-4 attractions every day without long waits, then I will pay attention.

But, if you do more than that, then we will know that that statement is pure garbage or, dare I say, "hyperbole".

I will await your report.

 

[wisblue]

Yes, by all means pull out that trite excuse that you are trying to protect Disney neophytes from criticisms of Disney. After all, Disney really needs your protection! Contrary to your assertions, there are people who are experiencing less with FP+, as evidenced by previous posts.

I am not trying to protect anyone from criticisms of Disney. I am trying to help them get more balanced and more factual information.

When have I EVER said that nobody is experiencing less with FP+? The important thing for "neophytes" to understand is that many of those people are guests who have visited WDW many times, have crossed several attractions of their to do list, and then used paper FPs to their advantage to ride the few attractions that they were interested in several times each. That is usually not what first time and infrequent visitors are looking to do. Many of them are much more interested in doing many different things once each.

 

[ppiew]

Wow sure is some negativism! I have used the band and fastpass+ four times this year. Yes there have been hickcups, and yes I changed my mind about a ride a few times, some problems mine some Disney. But you know what? I came to have a good time and that I did! IN SPADES! Wait or no wait I checked the lines and made my decision. Basically my theory is go on everything or anything that does not have a wait exceeding 1/2 hour. Works every time. No I do not ever want or intend to spend a day running from attraction to attraction, ya gotta stop and 'spell the roses', after all that is what brings WDW above the rest. I have been to the theme parks and NEVER gone on a ride/attraction. We have sat watched the street entertainment, shopped or looked in the neat shops, people watched, saw a parade etc. loved every bit of it. So schedule/use your passes and fill in with whatever is nearest - you will have a much more satisfying day than griping about the of FP etc. Look up at check out the neat architecture of the buildings, look down and see the interesting plant life, go into buildings and see how they are layed out. It is these things that are the reason I love the parks, no to join a race club to see who can get on the most rides in the day.

 

[Laketravis]

"I really don't care if you and the others who are lamenting the passing of paper FPs decide that WDW is no longer a good vacation value for you

I am not lamenting the passing of paper FP's, so please stop beating that horse.

"This ride rarely had a wait before, except during the busiest times of the year. Now it sometimes has posted wait times of 10-15 minutes, and once last week I even saw a posted wait time of 25 minutes. Of course, because I didn't actually get in the line, the actual wait may have been significantly less than 25 minutes. But, it was still unusual to see even a posted wait time that long".

Glad to hear you understand that, because it's what I've been saying.

I know that you find your dismissive and mocking comments to be humorous and clever, and there are usually plenty of your supporters around to back you up. Personally, I find them to be childish and not conducive to having a civil discussion.

Such assumptive and demonstrative comments aren't necessary. Find your sense of humor, it will serve you well.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We do rope drop, we ride late, we park hop- We stay on site to get a jump on reserving fp's and to make use of evening EMH. It works for us.

I'm seriously glad it works for you. I truly hope it's understandable that that does not work for all trips.

For us on this trip, RD is only even a possibility on 2 days. We arrive at MCO at 10am, so definitely no RD on arrival day.

Day 2 is the 1/2 marathon and we are not going to the parks during the day so that DH has the stamina for the 1/2 marathon. My friend and I will hit Epcot at 7pm, when our Finish Line party tickets allow us to enter. The finish line party goes until 4am.

Day 3 we will likely not be able to hit a park until 11am or so. DH won't finish the race til at least 1am, and if we stay any later so he can enjoy the after party, we'll be out too late to hit RD.

Day 4 and Day 5 we have the option of hitting RD and likely will on at least 1 of those days.

We'd love to hit MK for Evening EMH, but when Disney changed the EMH schedule, they shut us out of that possibility (along with all of the other 1/2 marathon runners). MK is the park we'd most use Evening EMH in, so not having that option was a big blow to the trip.

We will maximize our time in the park as much as we can...but sometimes it's just not as simple as "hit RD, then evening EMH"

 

[Angel Ariel]

It seems like your standards for taking things literally is different when the statements are made by someone on your "side".

No, actually, it isn't. I always assume that when people use those terms they are talking about their experience. And when I respond to things like "Paper FP's for popular attractions like Soarin, Test Track, and TSMM were ALWAYS gone by noon", I respond with something along the lines of:

"I understand that that is *your* experience with those attractions, but it was not *our* experience."

I do not dismiss that that is their experience at all, as you are accusing.

you and your cohorts would be all over that, and wouldn't be excusing it as "well, he meant they were always gone when he was there".

As I illustrated above, I actually do acknowledge that that is what those people have experienced. I just also say that it wasn't what I experienced.

It is possible to actually acknowledge both sides, without summarily dismissing the other. I endeavor to do just that, despite the attacks like this one. If you have issues with other posters, take it up with them, not me.

FTR - I was sincere in my PM where I said I wasn't taking things personally. I am taking this one personally, as I am personally being accused of something here. Something I don't, and haven't done. So yes, I take issue with that.