Apparently I dislike FP+...alot

I do think that a bunch of these FP+ complaints could be posted in one of the 100 that already exist but it is very easy to look at the title and if it looks like a topic you aren't interested in, don't click it, move on to the next one.
 
I like FP+

I don't like tiers, being limited to three, not being able to select the same attraction more than once, needing to reserve up to 60 days in advance or risk not getting an FP for our favorites, and not being able to reserve FP's for multiple parks on the same day.

But I like FP+

I don't like tiers - Agree

being limited to three - You can. Just I understand especially on busy days two of the parks struggle to accomodate with "good" FPs. MK and AK often times has good ones later in the day (I assume the Mountaians are generally considered good ones).

not being able to select the same attraction more than once - neutral.

needing to reserve up to 60 days in advance or risk not getting an FP for our favorites - I am actually fine with this but I am understanding for non-resort individuals. Weird thing is outside of Parades, the 2 attractions most affected is at MK and it has many other high quality FP+ available. A year ago we would have thought MK was all about the Mountains. Now they are often available for a 4th FP. Go figure.

not being able to reserve FP's for multiple parks on the same day - Agree and if they got rid of Tiers I think this would be an easy fix.
 
Perhaps a FP+ thoughts sticky would be useful?

No way I could stay at a WDW resort and not at least visit MK!
 
Wait times increasing on average on minute. Not what this report shows. http://www.easywdw.com/uncategorized...d-attractions/

The link doesn't work for me, but if this is the same report as the one that was batted around last week, it shows that average wait times are up for some rides and down for others and that none of the average increases or decreases are more than 10 minutes.

The results of the Toruing Plans report I saw were very similar.

If the conclusion that the average wait time is increased by a minute per attraction across the whole park is reached by netting the increases and the decreases, that sounds about right. But, if you are determined to focus on just the increases and ignore the effect of the decreases, then the average increase (for the rides that have increases) is more than a minute.

If this is a different report and offers a different conclusion, I would be glad to consider it if I can find it.
 

Perhaps a FP+ thoughts sticky would be useful?

No way I could stay at a WDW resort and not at least visit MK!

I think this is one of the biggest problems: MK is fantastic and frankly the other Disney parks are ok, but they really can't compare. Maybe FP+ should have only been installed in MK. MK has enough sought after rides for FP+.

Every time I look at crowd calendars (slower times), I can find slow days at AK, HS, and Epcot, but never MK. It's got all the great attractions everyone wants to ride.
 
The link doesn't work for me, but if this is the same report as the one that was batted around last week, it shows that average wait times are up for some rides and down for others and that none of the average increases or decreases are more than 10 minutes.

The results of the Toruing Plans report I saw were very similar.

If the conclusion that the average wait time is increased by a minute per attraction across the whole park is reached by netting the increases and the decreases, that sounds about right. But, if you are determined to focus on just the increases and ignore the effect of the decreases, then the average increase (for the rides that have increases) is more than a minute.

If this is a different report and offers a different conclusion, I would be glad to consider it if I can find it.

See if this link works:

http://www.easywdw.com/uncategorize...cting-wait-times-at-disney-world-attractions/

I see more than 1 minute increases, but maybe I'm just a glass half empty kind of girl. I do see some decreases, but there appear to be less attractions with decreases, and the decreases seem to be for less time than the increases. I haven't tallied up anything; that's just a first glance kind of assessment.
 
See if this link works:

http://www.easywdw.com/uncategorize...cting-wait-times-at-disney-world-attractions/

I see more than 1 minute increases, but maybe I'm just a glass half empty kind of girl. I do see some decreases, but there appear to be less attractions with decreases, and the decreases seem to be for less time than the increases. I haven't tallied up anything; that's just a first glance kind of assessment.

Thanks for fixing the link. You are quite right about the increases. Look at the data closely and it shows above a ten minute increase at a lot of rides in epcot, ak, and studios and a mixed bag at magic kingdom. An average of higher than ten minutes, let alone the 1 minute the other site talks about. This site has easy to read data with year to year comparisons.
 
The link doesn't work for me, but if this is the same report as the one that was batted around last week, it shows that average wait times are up for some rides and down for others and that none of the average increases or decreases are more than 10 minutes.

The results of the Toruing Plans report I saw were very similar.

If the conclusion that the average wait time is increased by a minute per attraction across the whole park is reached by netting the increases and the decreases, that sounds about right. But, if you are determined to focus on just the increases and ignore the effect of the decreases, then the average increase (for the rides that have increases) is more than a minute.

If this is a different report and offers a different conclusion, I would be glad to consider it if I can find it.

It is night and day wis. Come on, focusing on the negative? Its there in black and white. This report conflicts totally with touring plans report. This report shows you the data and you get to make the comparisons. The decreases you speak of are hardly a fraction of the increases.
 
After comparing the pluses and minuses at each park the average time spent in line at AK during nonpeak times for the rides listed goes up 30 minutes and in peak times it goes up 65. At epcot nonpeak 40 minutes and peak 55. At the studios nonpeak 50 minutes and peak 45. At the magic kingdom non peak 40 minutes and peak 40 minutes. So by the numbers a person who visits all four parks in non peak season can expect to spend 2 hours and 40 minutes longer in lines than before. A person who goes to all 4 parks during peak season can expect on average to spend an additional 3 hours and 25 minutes in line. Those numbers kind of tell the tale when comparing 2013 and 2014!
 
A person who goes to all 4 parks during peak season can expect on average to spend an additional 3 hours and 25 minutes in line. Those numbers kind of tell the tale when comparing 2013 and 2014!

Just taking this point on at the moment-

Assuming your numbers are correct and the site you use is accurate- that's assuming a guest goes to WDW and rides every ride in the park and not only that, but rides every single ride standby.

I don't believe that's typical. Also, that number could easily be reduced by making use of EMH or rope drop, and riding during slower times of the day such as parades, fireworks. The number you give is the absolute worst case scenario.

But even in the worst case scenario, if your trip is 5 days, then your standby wait is increased 32 minutes per day non-peak, 41 minutes peak. Per ride it's under 5 minutes per ride non peak- and 6 minutes peak.

When you factor in crowd increases and ride capacity reductions, it probably does come down to a wash with touring plans results. When you factor in time saved not having to walk to get a pass, walk back to ride it and the ability to cluster rides together to shorten your walk time, fp+ probably saves time overall.

At any rate, both sites are pretty close to the same conclusions after looking at it in more detail.
 
After comparing the pluses and minuses at each park the average time spent in line at AK during nonpeak times for the rides listed goes up 30 minutes and in peak times it goes up 65. At epcot nonpeak 40 minutes and peak 55. At the studios nonpeak 50 minutes and peak 45. At the magic kingdom non peak 40 minutes and peak 40 minutes. So by the numbers a person who visits all four parks in non peak season can expect to spend 2 hours and 40 minutes longer in lines than before. A person who goes to all 4 parks during peak season can expect on average to spend an additional 3 hours and 25 minutes in line. Those numbers kind of tell the tale when comparing 2013 and 2014!

I haven't run all the numbers, but it seems that for my family, we'll come out on the losing end of this. Here's why: We always had strategies for the long-wait-rides. We never waited peak, or even average times for Splash, or Space Mountain, for instance. We hit those at rope drop OR had a FP for them.

However, we hit things like Haunted Mansion and POTC (and countless others) on standby.

My vacation is not for another few weeks, but I *think* what's going to end up happening is that, compared to my previous vacations, the waits for the "big rides" will stay about the same because we'll use FP+ for those. However, I *think* our waits for all those other rides will go up. And when you add all those together, I *think* we'll come out on the losing end.

That said, I'm not all gloom and doom, and I'm not going to let it ruin my vacation. I am still really looking forward to it, and I'm cautiously optimistic. It's just the new normal - nothing to be done about it except adjust.

But that's the tale the numbers are telling me. Knowing what I'm dealing with on the front end, I can better prepare my family for some longer waits on rides that have not been problematic in the past.

BTW - *COULD* the changes in wait times be due to something different? Sure. But seeing the significant changes, the first thing I'd ask is, "Hmm. Is there anything that changed between 2013 o 2014 that could be accounting for these differences?" And there's one glaring answer. You can keep ignoring and looking for something else if you want to.
 
I haven't run all the numbers, but it seems that for my family, we'll come out on the losing end of this. Here's why: We always had strategies for the long-wait-rides. We never waited peak, or even average times for Splash, or Space Mountain, for instance. We hit those at rope drop OR had a FP for them.

However, we hit things like Haunted Mansion and POTC (and countless others) on standby.

My vacation is not for another few weeks, but I *think* what's going to end up happening is that, compared to my previous vacations, the waits for the "big rides" will stay about the same because we'll use FP+ for those. However, I *think* our waits for all those other rides will go up. And when you add all those together, I *think* we'll come out on the losing end.

That said, I'm not all gloom and doom, and I'm not going to let it ruin my vacation. I am still really looking forward to it, and I'm cautiously optimistic.

But that's the tale the numbers are telling me. Knowing what I'm dealing with on the front end, I can better prepare my family for some longer waits on rides that have not been problematic in the past.

We were able to get 7 or 8 FPs at MK. We found having our first 3 scheduled from the 10am-1pm range allowed us to get a few things done prior to using our initial 3 and then allowed plenty of time to add extra FPs throughout the day. Also, take something you are satisfied with that is as early of a time you can get at the kiosk, and play with it in the app immediately after booking at the kiosk. We were able to get better rides/times that the kiosk didn't offer. :goodvibes
 
I haven't run all the numbers, but it seems that for my family, we'll come out on the losing end of this. Here's why: We always had strategies for the long-wait-rides. We never waited peak, or even average times for Splash, or Space Mountain, for instance. We hit those at rope drop OR had a FP for them.

However, we hit things like Haunted Mansion and POTC (and countless others) on standby.

My vacation is not for another few weeks, but I *think* what's going to end up happening is that, compared to my previous vacations, the waits for the "big rides" will stay about the same because we'll use FP+ for those. However, I *think* our waits for all those other rides will go up. And when you add all those together, I *think* we'll come out on the losing end.

That said, I'm not all gloom and doom, and I'm not going to let it ruin my vacation. I am still really looking forward to it, and I'm cautiously optimistic. It's just the new normal - nothing to be done about it except adjust.

But that's the tale the numbers are telling me. Knowing what I'm dealing with on the front end, I can better prepare my family for some longer waits on rides that have not been problematic in the past.

BTW - *COULD* the changes in wait times be due to something different? Sure. But seeing the significant changes, the first thing I'd ask is, "Hmm. Is there anything that changed between 2013 o 2014 that could be accounting for these differences?" And there's one glaring answer. You can keep ignoring and looking for something else if you want to.

That sort of sums up how I feel things would go for us.

Also keep in mind when you are calculating your family's total anticipated wait time the time you will be spending waiting in line at the kiosks for your 4th and subsequent FPs.
 
That sort of sums up how I feel things would go for us.

Also keep in mind when you are calculating your family's total anticipated wait time the time you will be spending waiting in line at the kiosks for your 4th and subsequent FPs.

The longest wait we had last week was 1 minute, and that was one time. Every other time was no wait whatsoever. At least one of our days was an 8 according to touring plans, but I only know that because someone told me. I never pay attention to that stuff. Without thoroughly checking my notes, I estimate we made about 25-30 extra FPs over 9 days. One minute of waiting was well worth it.
 
Just taking this point on at the moment-

Assuming your numbers are correct and the site you use is accurate- that's assuming a guest goes to WDW and rides every ride in the park and not only that, but rides every single ride standby.

I don't believe that's typical. Also, that number could easily be reduced by making use of EMH or rope drop, and riding during slower times of the day such as parades, fireworks. The number you give is the absolute worst case scenario.

But even in the worst case scenario, if your trip is 5 days, then your standby wait is increased 32 minutes per day non-peak, 41 minutes peak. Per ride it's under 5 minutes per ride non peak- and 6 minutes peak.

When you factor in crowd increases and ride capacity reductions, it probably does come down to a wash with touring plans results. When you factor in time saved not having to walk to get a pass, walk back to ride it and the ability to cluster rides together to shorten your walk time, fp+ probably saves time overall.

At any rate, both sites are pretty close to the same conclusions after looking at it in more detail.

No that's not for every ride. The wdw site listed 6 rides at AK, 8 at epcot ,6 at the studios and 20 at MK. It was not all inclusive. I actually hope to see results encompassing all rides.
 
No that's not for every ride. The wdw site listed 6 rides at AK, 8 at epcot ,6 at the studios and 20 at MK. It was not all inclusive. I actually hope to see results encompassing all rides.

Ok. It does include a great many of the rides, haven't taken the time to figure out which ones it does not include and that doesn't change the numbers on wait times at any rate.
 
The longest wait we had last week was 1 minute, and that was one time. Every other time was no wait whatsoever. At least one of our days was an 8 according to touring plans, but I only know that because someone told me. I never pay attention to that stuff. Without thoroughly checking my notes, I estimate we made about 25-30 extra FPs over 9 days. One minute of waiting was well worth it.

I think the long waits at kiosks were early on and have let up considerably other than when there's a ride breakdown and that often will cause 1 kiosk to balloon temporarily. We didn't see long waits either. A minute or two at most, quite often we walked right up to one. Easy peasy, made our selection and moved on. It was nice to be able to grab additional fp+ without going out of our way to do it.
 
After comparing the pluses and minuses at each park the average time spent in line at AK during nonpeak times for the rides listed goes up 30 minutes and in peak times it goes up 65. At epcot nonpeak 40 minutes and peak 55. At the studios nonpeak 50 minutes and peak 45. At the magic kingdom non peak 40 minutes and peak 40 minutes. So by the numbers a person who visits all four parks in non peak season can expect to spend 2 hours and 40 minutes longer in lines than before. A person who goes to all 4 parks during peak season can expect on average to spend an additional 3 hours and 25 minutes in line. Those numbers kind of tell the tale when comparing 2013 and 2014!

That's an interesting (and, in my opinion, incorrect and misleading) way to present those numbers.

First of all, to clarify, the numbers you are presenting as the average time spent in line represent the TOTAL extra amount a person would wait if he went to the park and did every single one of the rides listed using the standby line, and encountered a wait of the average amount. But, that would hardly be a typical experience. Any guest can easily eliminate or reduce a number of the longest waits by using FPs and/or getting to the park early or staying late and riding when the waits are below the median.

Even following your approach, if we look at the MK (which is the park most people focus on) the TOTAL increase in average waits is 40 minutes (as you said) for the 20 attractions listed. That is an average of a whopping TWO MINUTES per attraction. That average number per attraction is larger at the other 3 parks , but it is also easy to get FPs for a higher percentage of those attractions. For example, if I go to DHS with FPs in hand for TSMM, TOT and Star Tours and go to RNRC right at park opening, I am well on my way to eliminating a substantial part of the potential waiting times. It's not going to be anywhere near the total average wait of 3 hours and 20 minutes or total peak wait of 4 hours and 35 minutes for those 4 attractions.

You also completely misread what this data says about waits at peak times. This report studied wait times in the first 65 days of 2014 and compared them to the first 65 days of 2013. That would cover January 1 through about March 6. There really is no true peak time in that period except for a few isolated days. As I read it, what is listed as the "peak" is the absolutely highest posted wait time during the period covered by the study. It has nothing to do with what waits would be during peak seasons when, of course, posted wait times would be higher across the board.

If you're going to use the easywdw report as your definitive statement on this, you should make sure that you consider the whole report, not just the parts that support the point you're trying to make. For example:

"Magic Kingdom is perhaps the most interesting, where median and peak waits have actually gone down significantly at the headliners and up considerably at several of the secondary attractions, most notably it’s a small world, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, and Pirates of the Caribbean. It’s hard to say how much of an effect FP+ has had at Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise in particular. It might seem obvious that FP+ is directly responsible for the uptick, but those two attractions had oddly increasing wait times over the months leading up to the initial implementation of FP+. Nonetheless, expect to wait a lot longer at both in the afternoon."


It is night and day wis. Come on, focusing on the negative? Its there in black and white. This report conflicts totally with touring plans report. This report shows you the data and you get to make the comparisons. The decreases you speak of are hardly a fraction of the increases.

To borrow a line from "Friends", I think the difference is more like the difference between night and later that night.

The Touring Plans report does not conflict with the easywdw one because it is measuring things a different way using data from a different time period. Here is another link to that for your reference:

http://blog.touringplans.com/2014/06/23/fastpass-lowering-waits-disney-world-popular-rides/

I apologize if the link doesn't work. But, if you can see it, this report covers the period from February 1 through June 19 so, while there is some overlap with the easywdw study, this report covers all of Spring Break, Star Wars Weekends, and the beginning of the summer season, not to mention that it does not include periods in which paper FP was still in place at some parks and some resort guests were able to "double dip".

If you use your method for totaling all of the average changes for the 25 attractions included in this study, that number comes out to a NEGATIVE 48.8 minutes. In other words, taken across all of the attractions included, wait times have DECREASED.

I am not saying that anyone who says that they experienced significantly longer waits at certain attractions than they were used to on prior trips is making it up. And I really don't care if anyone wants to believe either or neither or both of these reports. Or if any changes have led anyone to conclude that they no longer want to visit WDW. Those are all personal observations and choices.

But, I will say for the benefit of people planning their first trips that the data compiled by seemingly objective people does not support the point that standby waits are up that dramatically for any attraction on a regular basis. Having a plan, arriving early, and taking advantage of the FPs available to you should result in a very positive experience.
 
No that's not for every ride. The wdw site listed 6 rides at AK, 8 at epcot ,6 at the studios and 20 at MK. It was not all inclusive. I actually hope to see results encompassing all rides.

This report covers all of the significant attractions.

I don't think we're going to learn more with data from the Peoplemover and Universe of Energy.
 
One can argue the numbers a million different ways, but the fact is a basic principle of yield management is a more equal (not perfect, mind you) distribution of demand - and in this case, wait times.

The highest demand attractions that also typically experienced the highest wait times will see a modest reduction in wait times, both median and max. Albeit there will still be a long wait but instead of, say, a 90 minute median might be reduced to a 70 minute median and a 120 max might be reduced to a 90 minute max.

The attractions with previously lesser demand (and correspondingly no-to-low wait times) have now been placed into the resource pool and are used to displace the higher demand for more popular attractions. Net result is the previous no-to-low wait times for those attractions WILL rise. In many cases substantially and in some cases double or more.

Does that mean that total aggregate wait time increases? Obviously not for everyone because it depends on what resources they wish to consume. Even if I were to keep track of the total time I spend in lines each day in the next three weeks when I'm there, I did not do that previously so I have no basis to compare to. My suspicion is that it depends on how many of the secondary attractions are utilized - a possibility I believe is substantially increased for me because rather than utilize multiple FP's on one high-demand attraction, I will be spending more time on secondary attractions than I previously have.

Therefore, I will most likely be standing in what is now a longer line more times than I have before.
 












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