Anyone watch "The Cove"

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

But you are still going for your swim with the dolphins this weekend I know if I felt that strongly losing the money would be the last thing on my mind I just don't get it.

Right because it's easy to tell your kids 1 day "hey kids we're going swimming with the dolphins" and the next say "sorry kids, it was just a joke." That will go over wonderfully right before a family trip.

 

[irisheyes123]

Right because it's easy to tell your kids 1 day "hey kids we're going swimming with the dolphins" and the next say "sorry kids, it was just a joke." That will go over wonderfully right before a family trip.

probably not but If you are telling your children its wrong and bringing them to it that is wrong too and sends mixed messages but I cant talk for that person as I do not know how they handled that. I just don't get how you can go if you are so against it thats all.

 

[irisheyes123]

Well let me ask you this: Where do you think Seaworld procures their dolphins?

Im sure they do it with great love and care and plenty of time with them.
I don't think they are been mistreated in any way I think that the work seaworld does is amazing and they care a great deal for them And I will continue to support them.

This tread is about the movie The cove and to me it feels like it is a bash seaworld tread maybe Im miss reading things but that is how I am seeing it

 

[chiamarie]

I disagree with the facts in pink. The fishermen ARE making a profit by selling them, especially at the $100K+ per dolphin pricetag. If they were simply doing it for "pest control" then they would not sell any of the dolphins at all. The Japanese government was providing literature saying that they should do so for pest control etc. The govt makes a lot of money off of whaling and dolphin slaughtering. They now label their whaling ships with Research tags and say that they are collecting tissue samples etc, however they are selling the dolphin and whale meat for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It is horrific what they are doing to the dolphins and the manner in which it is happening. If they thought what they were doing was okay and proper then why the secrecy, hidden cove etc? The fact that the Japanese governement is also essentially buying the votes of smaller, nearly destitute Caribbean nations to support their position on whaling laws and restrictions is also telling.
Just because whaling/dolphin hunting and killing is a tradition in the Japanese culture doesn't make it true or right. There are plenty of "cultural traditions" in American which thankfully no longer exist because people wised up and realized they were immoral and unconscionable.

Okay, correct. They do make a profit from it. I suggest you watch the videos I posted awhile back in this discussion. But Ric O'Barry himself (I think it was either him, or the guy that intially made a documentry back in the 80's about the Drive Fisheries) asked the fisherman if they would stop the drive fisheries if we just paid them as much as they are making from selling these animals (meat, or for aquariums or otherwise) and their answer was "no, this is pest control".

Trust me. I think what they are doing is competely wrong. It's sickening. But in order to stop it, I think Ric O'Barry is going the wrong way about it. But that's because his agenda is necessarily to stop it, but rather, to stop having whales/dolphins in captivity, that is his ultimate motive. If his soloution to the drive fisheries to stop, is by stop visiting places like SeaWorld, then the drive fisheries aren't going to stop. Becasue SeaWorld (and other places that house dolphins/whales) has nothing to do with them.

 

[chiamarie]

Totally agree BLT. Just because you love dolphins and feel they are being mistreated, you don't have to suddenly boycott seeing ALL animals in captivity. Some people really take things to the extreme just to try justify their point of view. Amazing.

Dolphins in Japan being caught in the Drive Fisheries are being mistreated. Not the dolphins at Discovery Cove/Seaworld.

But the point is....boycotting Seaworld/Discovery Cove/ EPCOT isn't going to help the drive fisheries. Becasue none of these places have anything to do with it. Which means, you must be more against captivity aspect. That whales/dolphins shouldn't be captive, and should be free.

So, my question is, what makes it okay to keep lions/tigers/monkeys/or any other animal for that matter. When they are treated and well cared for, just like the dolphins are. So, why would you boycott one place, but not another. This I just don't understand. It's being hypocritical.

 

[chiamarie]

you are joking about the food thing right? i can't believe what i am reading here.
the whales/dolphins are conditioned with a whistle and a bucket of fish. Are you telling me that you have never noticed that when dolphins/whales do a trick or perform correctly the whistle gets blown then they get given food?

if you have noticed this then you would have noticed that they get fed AFTER they have performed jumping through hoops etc, why do you think this is? Answer: They are performing in order to get fed NOT because they want to.

Do you honestly believe that a whale/dolphin would perform on a full stomach?

if they don't do the trick correctly do you think the whistle gets blown and they still get given the fish?
if you are not sure i will answer for you: No they don't get their 'treat'.

if the whales/dolphins got fed regardless if they performed correctly or not there would be no incentive for them to perform would there?

its called 'Conditioning' the whales/dolphins not 'education' as marine parks will have us believe.

another thing i last went to seaworld in 2006 and i saw the holding pens the whales are kept in. i couldn't believe how tiny there were. Terrible.

I don't think a single trainer will argue with you that they don't use conditioning. Yes. They train animals. Yes, they use food as a form of reinforecment. But they also use other forms of reinforcement. Such as Jello, Ice, rubdowns, toys. I've even seen an entire show done competely without food as a reinforcer.

Animals at Seaworld are never punished. They never have their food withheld from them. I've seen several "training sessions" that aren't really training sessions. Where all they do is feed. Not a single behavior is asked for, no training, or "learning" is happening. All the animals do is eat. But you don't see thoes sessions in shows, because all people want to see are the big fun "tricks".

So what happens if an animal doesn't do what the trainer wants? Yes, you're correct. They get a "LRS" or Least Reinforcing Siutaiton. Where they just don't do anything for 3 seconds. And then move on to something else. If the animal doesn't want to cooperate. They can't make them. They just get their food at a later time in the day, it doesn't mean they don't get fed at all.

 

[Shamurocks]

Dolphins in Japan being caught in the Drive Fisheries are being mistreated. Not the dolphins at Discovery Cove/Seaworld.

But the point is....boycotting Seaworld/Discovery Cove/ EPCOT isn't going to help the drive fisheries. Becasue none of these places have anything to do with it. Which means, you must be more against captivity aspect. That whales/dolphins shouldn't be captive, and should be free.

So, my question is, what makes it okay to keep lions/tigers/monkeys/or any other animal for that matter. When they are treated and well cared for, just like the dolphins are. So, why would you boycott one place, but not another. This I just don't understand. It's being hypocritical.

Could not agree more with this, why send so much hate Seaworld's way when there are so many captive animals in the world and some in much worse conditions the those kept at Seaworld?

I don't think a single trainer will argue with you that they don't use conditioning. Yes. They train animals. Yes, they use food as a form of reinforecment. But they also use other forms of reinforcement. Such as Jello, Ice, rubdowns, toys. I've even seen an entire show done competely without food as a reinforcer.

Animals at Seaworld are never punished. They never have their food withheld from them. I've seen several "training sessions" that aren't really training sessions. Where all they do is feed. Not a single behavior is asked for, no training, or "learning" is happening. All the animals do is eat. But you don't see thoes sessions in shows, because all people want to see are the big fun "tricks".

So what happens if an animal doesn't do what the trainer wants? Yes, you're correct. They get a "LRS" or Least Reinforcing Siutaiton. Where they just don't do anything for 3 seconds. And then move on to something else. If the animal doesn't want to cooperate. They can't make them. They just get their food at a later time in the day, it doesn't mean they don't get fed at all.

Took the word's straight out of my mouth, the fish you see them being given in the shows is reinforcement for doing what the trainers what, they don't always get fish but also get other types of reinforcement too.
This is not depriving them of food, it's the exact same way you train any other animal. If you want to teach your dog a trick you might give him a treat if he does what you want, as a reward so he does it again. This doesn't mean you don't also feed your dog, its an extra as reinforcement of good behavior.
Same goes with the Orcas, they are feed everyday whether they do what the trainers ask or not. The fish you see in the shows is a reward/reinforcement of good behavoir.
The trainers love these whales and would never deprive them of food/ mistreat them.

 

[Shamurocks]

another thing i last went to seaworld in 2006 and i saw the holding pens the whales are kept in. i couldn't believe how tiny there were. Terrible.

If you want to campaign against whales in small tanks, visit Lolita in Miami Seaquarium. I not slating MSQ, not saying they don't care for her because I know they do, but Lolita's tank is illegal.
Its not just Seaworld.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Im sure they do it with great love and care and plenty of time with them.

You think catching dolphins in their natural habitat involves great love and care?

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Which means, you must be more against captivity aspect. That whales/dolphins shouldn't be captive, and should be free.

So, my question is, what makes it okay to keep lions/tigers/monkeys/or any other animal for that matter. When they are treated and well cared for, just like the dolphins are. So, why would you boycott one place, but not another. This I just don't understand. It's being hypocritical.

1) Yes I feel that whales/dolphins shouldn't be held captive.

2) I think your 2nd point is absolutely silly. First of all, I think zoo's can do good things, especially when an animal is endangered and zoo's try to help build their population back up. But the reason why I'm not upset with the other animals is because dolphins are STUCK in a tiny little bowl of water. It's akin to sticking your goldfish in a bowl. If you knew anything about dolphins and their way of life you would understand what I'm talking about. Dolphins are completely different from tigers, bears, monkeys, etc.

3) And lastly what gives us the right to take dolphins out of the ocean? Seriously. You think that's okay? Would you like it if a stronger specie dropped by your house, pulled you out, and took you to a glass hall for exhibition?

 

[DCLMan]

1) Yes I feel that whales/dolphins shouldn't be held captive.

Dolphins are completely different from tigers, bears, monkeys, etc.

3) And lastly what gives us the right to take dolphins out of the ocean? Seriously. You think that's okay? Would you like it if a stronger specie dropped by your house, pulled you out, and took you to a glass hall for exhibition?

Dolphins are no different from any other animal.

The only countries that use wild caught dolphins are Japan, China, Korea and Taiwan.

 

[irisheyes123]

You think catching dolphins in their natural habitat involves great love and care?

Its been a very very long time since they done that

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Dolphins are no different from any other animal.

You're very uninformed. Dolphins need to roam the oceans. If you don't or can't understand that, there is no need in discussing this further.

 

[DCLMan]

You're very uninformed. Dolphins need to roam the oceans. If you don't or can't understand that, there is no need in discussing this further.

And the other animals you mentioned

tigers, bears, monkeys

don't need to roam?

 

[jrmasm]

You're very uninformed. Dolphins need to roam the oceans. If you don't or can't understand that, there is no need in discussing this further.

I can understanding thinking that animals shouldn't be kept in captivity. I cannot understand thinking that only some animals shouldn't be kept in captivity.

 

[Swtcn]

I have watched The Cove when it first came out on DVD. Its heartbreaking. I have not been to The Cove website but I think its Sept when they start the fishing or slaughter. This is the only DVD I have watched that still sticks into head.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

And the other animals you mentioned don't need to roam?

Not to the same extent that dolphins do. The space allocated to tigers, bears, monkeys is not ideal for them but is adequate enough so that they don't want to commit suicide. It's not the same thing for dolphins.

And if you don't think dolphins commit suicide, you can google that little tidbit.

 

[irisheyes123]

Not to the same extent that dolphins do. The space allocated to tigers, bears, monkeys is not ideal for them but is adequate enough so that they don't want to commit suicide. It's not the same thing for dolphins.

And if you don't think dolphins commit suicide, you can google that little tidbit.

But according to reports they have done this in the wild too

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

But according to reports they have done this in the wild too

http://www.thescavenger.net/animals/dolphins-in-captivity-may-commit-suicide.html

 

[DisneyRockstar]

I have seen The Cove. This movie was very powerful and epic in a way.

Truth is, dolphins do not belong in captivity, no matter where they come from. And dolphins born in captivity is no better because they are resulted from captive dolphins inbreeding. And they are still being exploited. They have to do tricks for the show.

That ain't right.

There is no such thing as good captivity. SeaWorld has done a wonderful job with conservation and animal rehabilitation. But the animals that have to perform in the shows do not live. They are surviving. Living is swimming in the open ocean, where there is no concrete or loud music and cheering affecting their sensitive hearing.

The ocean is where dolphins live their life. Living their life with none of the stress of captivity.

It is wrong to mess with a habitat that isn't yours. They never did anything to you. Marine life is not food, their animals. They are living things like us. And when it comes to dolphins, one of the most intelligent beings on the planet, it isn't right in any way to kill them. Humans are intelligent, you wouldn't kill them. Don't mess with the ocean. Case Closed.