Anyone lost overboard on DCL?

[Tonka's Skipper]

Are you sure that you did not add an extra 0 in there by mistake those are pretty big numbers.

Dam my error............sorry.................20 to 30.

Here is the site...........

Summary (# of persons) -- 2000 - 2010


http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html


I need to learn the type better.

AKK

 

[DynamicDisneyDuo]

I agree it is hard, but disagree with "almost impossible." Once you start looking at the numbers of passengers who have vanished at sea while on cruises (some of them shown below), it becomes virtually impossible to assume every single one of them intentionally jumped overboard or was the victim of foul play.

The numbers, when compared to the number of people actually cruising, are statistically insignificant. I know they aren't to the families and friends but from a logical/rational standpoint...there aren't many at all. Self-induced actions, in my book, would include people getting so drunk that they fall overboard. I would have to say that, yes, it is almost impossible to go overboard completely by accident on a newer ship. Does it happen? I'm sure but it's probably an extremely small number, less than 1 a year if not smaller, with the new safety features on ships.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

You are referring to Rebecca Coriam. As for the "presumably," the cursory, superficial "investigation" into her disapperance consisted of a single police officer from the Bahamas spending a few hours on the Wonder.

There were certain people here at the time claiming to be experts on maritime law saying all sorts of entities including U.S, authorities would be involved in "investigating" and there would be follow-up. Here are is a an example from the following thread:



This was posted on 03/27/11:

"There will be many investigative agencies onboard the Wonder, with inspectors that joined in Cabo, and more in LA. Theses groups will of course include (but are not limited to) the USCG, vessel inspection agencies, insurance companies, British authorities as she is a British citizen, US dept. of transportation and likely the FBI, Federal investigative groups, and more I am sure!

All these groups will be issuing reports, both public and private."

Really? Well, here we are over a year later, and:

- No, there were not a "number" or "many" agencies" investigating. The only "investigation" was for a few hours by a single policeman from the Bahamas.

- No, there were never any "final" public reports released on Rebeccas's disapperance. Not by the Bahamas authorities, not by the USCG, not by "vessel inspection agencies" or "insurance companies" or Disney, not by anyone.

- No, the "facts" have not "simply come out in time."

The only facts we do have are:

A so-called "investigation" into this disappearance which was brief and limited.

To this his day there being no meaningful evidence to support any hard conclusion on what happened to Rebecca.

The very sad fact her family is still waiting for her return or confirmed information on her fate.

http://www.rebecca-coriam.com/

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2011/11/03/shipping-minister-mike-penning-attacks-disney-over-missing-cruise-ship-worker-rebecca-coriam-92534-29710417/

As usual Mandy, when it comes to this case your still wrong in your facts and comments.

And posting a mp floor tirate to get votes doesn't help your case or the family.

There were far from 1 police person, not to mention that the USCG did investigate and the FBI because they were ASKED to help. The other agencies were also there, just maybe not advertizing it. Just as I quoted in my comment you took.

These reports may not have been issued or are just buried in the online sites. Open investigations can go on for years.

But go ahead.........you can keep commenting on things you know nothing about.

The sad part in this is that sometimes there just is not a final answer.

I know this because I have been involved in missing crew men at sea......


AKK

 

[DynamicDisneyDuo]

The sad part in this is that sometimes there just is not a final answer.

I know this because I have been involved in missing crew men at sea......


AKK

Unfortunately sometimes people cannot accept/understand this. There are not always answers to all of life's mysteries.

 

[CarolAnnC]

No I am not kidding. I know this from first-hand experience. You do not have set hours, but try to check the board often. When there is an hot thread you tend to spend more time online than usual.

Yup...

 

[CandyMandy]

There were far from 1 police person, not to mention that the USCG did investigate and the FBI because they were ASKED to help. The other agencies were also there, just maybe not advertizing it.

And now for details, as opposed to unsupported generalizations. Here is a direct quote from Annmaria, Rebecca's mother. As the mother of the missing woman, she knows more about the specifics of the investigation than you or I:

"‘We only know of the one officer on the case and only one officer went on to the ship to do the investigation."

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/875131-parents-anguish-six-months-after-daughter-vanished-from-cruise-ship

You are welcome to try and refute her. As long as you provide proof.

And while you're at it, perhaps you might want to respond to Mr. Coriam. Here is what he has to say about the the big "multi-agency investigation" you are claiming was fielded:

"When I have called the Bahamas asking how the investigation is going I just get told it is 'ongoing.'

Just one police officer from the Bahamas is investigating my daughter’s case. (ed. note: no mention of USCG, FBI, etc. None. Zero. Nada.) This is despite the fact there were 2,400 passengers on board and 945 staff. It is impossible for one man to do a thorough investigation. It has been a farce since the start."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2036056/Scores-people-gone-missing-cruise-ships-Its-time-say-parents-girl-vanished-Disney-liner.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

And as much as certain brooms has been trying to sweep the Rebecca story under the rug, get ready for the next round: the Coriams have retained Jim Walker, an attorney well known in maritime circles. In a recent interview with the BBC, stated he was "deeply troubled" by the "lack of co-operation and transparency demonstrated by Disney".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-17448700

And the below update on the disappearance contains some new information, as well as underlining the shallowness of the official "investigation:"

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/03/22/exclusive-liverpool-echo-investigation-into-rebecca-coriam-cruise-disappearance-reveals-mystery-love-triangle-100252-30597747/

Lastly, the current Wikipedia entry on the case, which provides a detailed overview of the various theories about what may have happened and documents the fact there is some speculation out there that Disney knows Rebecca's fate and engaged in a coverup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Rebecca_Coriam

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

And now for details, as opposed to unsupported generalizations. Here is a direct quote from Annmaria, Rebecca's mother. As the mother of the missing woman, she knows more about the specifics of the investigation than you or I:

"‘We only know of the one officer on the case and only one officer went on to the ship to do the investigation."

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/875131-parents-anguish-six-months-after-daughter-vanished-from-cruise-ship

You are welcome to try and refute her. As long as you provide proof.

And while you're at it, perhaps you might want to respond to Mr. Coriam. Here is what he has to say about the the big "multi-agency investigation" you are claiming was fielded:

"When I have called the Bahamas asking how the investigation is going I just get told it is 'ongoing.'

Just one police officer from the Bahamas is investigating my daughter’s case. (ed. note: no mention of USCG, FBI, etc. None. Zero. Nada.) This is despite the fact there were 2,400 passengers on board and 945 staff. It is impossible for one man to do a thorough investigation. It has been a farce since the start."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2036056/Scores-people-gone-missing-cruise-ships-Its-time-say-parents-girl-vanished-Disney-liner.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

And as much as certain brooms has been trying to sweep the Rebecca story under the rug, get ready for the next round: the Coriams have retained Jim Walker, an attorney well known in maritime circles. In a recent interview with the BBC, stated he was "deeply troubled" by the "lack of co-operation and transparency demonstrated by Disney".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-17448700

And the below update on the disappearance contains some new information, as well as underlining the shallowness of the official "investigation:"

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/03/22/exclusive-liverpool-echo-investigation-into-rebecca-coriam-cruise-disappearance-reveals-mystery-love-triangle-100252-30597747/

Lastly, the current Wikipedia entry on the case, which provides a detailed overview of the various theories about what may have happened and documents the fact there is some speculation out there that Disney knows Rebecca's fate and engaged in a coverup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Rebecca_Coriam

Please read what I said there is more then 1 agency, government or otherwise............I told you more reports at the time some of the agencies that boarded and they don't make noise about it. Especially if they maybe investigating a criminal aspect

With all due respect,The family is not the ones who know the most about the things going on. An what a hired atty is not telling you that this is not unusual and the way things are handled. Of course telling you that at a press meeting does not get headlines.

I really don't care what you believe, but as many on the diz have noted in the past you seem to have a bone to grind with DCL.

With all due respect, you have NO proof.......The media, (some items over a year old) and gee Wikipedia, with *theories*...there a great sources......NOT...they are always correct...not, in addition to trying to sell papers and advertizing.

As I said before, the sad part in these investigations is that sometimes there is never a final answer, but you have to know the players and behind the scenes operations., before you can say how good or bad a investigation is.

AS noted before,12 years at sea as a deck Officer and 29 years as a marine surveyor and investigator does give me a solid background to offer these facts.

Just how much experience at sea have you?.....or experience in criminal investigstions heve?....you have not mentioned any??


AKK



AKK

 

[TXDCLfan]

Dam my error............sorry.................20 to 30.

Here is the site...........

Summary (# of persons) -- 2000 - 2010


http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html


I need to learn the type better.

AKK

Thank god you had a typo because if those had been the right number I would have stopped cruising

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Thank god you had a typo because if those had been the right number I would have stopped cruising

I am very sorry about that.....really. I was heading out the door to work when I typed that!

But even at those figures, as shown on the chart in the site, its scary! Some are likely suicides (I had one officer going though a divorce jump over the side at night )..but some have to be due other reasons........criminal or whatever.

AKK

 

[Capt_BJ]

wrt the folks who might investigate this incident I have one word for you to ponder

jurisdiction

the incident happened outside of the US on a ship not of US flag.

The US has very little jurisdiction outside of the US on a non-US vessel unless invited by the Flag State.

If you don't understand part/any of this ... welcome to maritime and international law.

If you think this is terrible I'll ask you to consider this, do we allow the law enforcement agents of other countries to investigate and make arrests in the US? I mean can a Bahamas police officer execute a Bahamas issued search warrant in Chicago?

Did this happen in the Bahamas on a ship of the Bahama flag?

jurisdiction . . .

THIS is the risk you take when employed or sailing on a cuise ship. You enter the relm of International Law. 99.9% of the time a non issue. And for the rest . . . .

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

wrt the folks who might investigate this incident I have one word for you to ponder

jurisdiction

the incident happened outside of the US on a ship not of US flag.

The US has very little jurisdiction outside of the US on a non-US vessel unless invited by the Flag State.

If you don't understand part/any of this ... welcome to maritime and international law.

If you think this is terrible I'll ask you to consider this, do we allow the law enforcement agents of other countries to investigate and make arrests in the US? I mean can a Bahamas police officer execute a Bahamas issued search warrant in Chicago?

Did this happen in the Bahamas on a ship of the Bahama flag?

jurisdiction . . .

THIS is the risk you take when employed or sailing on a cuise ship. You enter the relm of International Law. 99.9% of the time a non issue. And for the rest . . . .

Totally agree Captain BJ!

 

[bookite]

we were on the cruise rebecca disappeared from. it was our first dcl cruise. the whole thing was very surreal, i still think about her and wonder what happened. it didn't take long to figure out something was wrong, b/c of the PA messages coming into the room despite being told they wouldn't be doing that. but overall you wouldn't have known there was a crises on board. i am glad she still gets mentioned here, so sad that (as pp have mentioned) we really may never know what happened.

 

[CandyMandy]

Please read what I said there is more then 1 agency, government or otherwise............I told you more reports at the time some of the agencies that boarded and they don't make noise about it. Especially if they maybe investigating a criminal aspect

Here we go again, generalizations. So time for more facts.

In numerous prior posts, you have repeatedly stated the FBI was involved in the investigation of Ms. Coriam's disappearance. That is completely incorrect. Here is a news report from March of last year.

"The FBI is not involved because it does not have jurisdiction, as the ship was off the coast of Mexico flying under a foreign flag, said spokeswoman Laura Eimiller of the agency's Los Angeles office."

http://www.intercot.com/discussion/archive/index.php?t-180513.html

And notably, you did not even attempt to rebut the statements made by the Coriams that the sole entity involved in the supposed "investigation" is a single policeman - one who doesn't even return phone calls from the family of the missing woman (sorry, these Brits are not following the standard script and going quietly into the night). And good for them - make those petty bureaucrats in Nassau (and maybe some people at DCL) sweat. This time, people are not going to forget. And are not going to accept the throwaway "investigation is in progress" stuff from the Royal Bahamas Police. No, where is an update of the status of the supposed robust, world-class inquiry (which "included the FBI" ) certain people are still trying to imply was conducted?.

But then again, the fact the "investigation" (as Mr. Coriam eloquently put it) is a farce is par for the course in this blatant conflict of interest situation. Only the naive or apologists for large corporations would believe investigators from a flag of convenience nation are going to objectively assess parties that pay millions a year to said nation for vessel registrations. And deliver millions in income to said nation by docking in their ports.

 

[mmouse37]

This thread has run it course now and is being closed....

MJ