Anyone have TourGuideMike and

[88Keys]

UK DEB --

ThankyouThankyouThankyou -- a TGM user that actually tried to answer the question and not just get indignant. Great points, although the UOG is pretty comprehensive about parks on certain days as well (maybe not as much as TGM -- I don't know because I am not a member, though I am thinking of joining -- anyone know where a coupon is??

 

[kutchyone]

There really isn't any way to have an intelligent discussion on this topic. Any example you post of a great secret will get you slammed for violating a sacred oath. We can't have a discussion if one party is unable or unwilling to provide information supporting their position.

As a result of pms with several TMG users I feel confident that I wouldn't benefit from the site. I could post a dozen or more common sense type of tips but I won't since TGM users won't be adding anything to list by giving any examples where TGM adds extra information.

You’re probably correct it is difficult.

Why not spend a couple of dollars to join then you could see if your assumption is correct. Take a few days to review the information and the "secrets". If you find nothing to use for a future more enjoyable trip ask for your money back. And if you do ask for your money back please describe how that process works out for you. Not a single person who has found the TGM site to be terrible has shared with us how easy or hard it was to get their money back and I seriously would love to hear about their experiences.

 

[UKDEB]

There really isn't any way to have an intelligent discussion on this topic. Any example you post of a great secret will get you slammed for violating a sacred oath. We can't have a discussion if one party is unable or unwilling to provide information supporting their position.

Lewis, I don't understand why you persist with this flawed argument. Several posters (including me) have provided information supporting their position without giving away 'secrets'.

As a result of pms with several TMG users I feel confident that I wouldn't benefit from the site.

Ahh, but doesn't it secretly bother you that you can't actually know for sure without subscribing? Just teasing.

I could post a dozen or more common sense type of tips but I won't since TGM users won't be adding anything to list by giving any examples where TGM adds extra information

To quote myself: "A good example is the 'Least Crowded Parks' articles - detailed advice for every day of the year together with the thinking behind it." Now, most guide books will give you a 'busiest day' guide for each of the parks, together with some rationale - mostly around avoiding EMH parks. That's sound advice that I have been following for years. However, TGM's advice and reasoning goes way beyond that. For every day of the year (yes, day of the year; not day of the week) he gives each park a red, green or yellow light for both morning and evening. In each case he explains why he has reached that conclusion and what other things you might want to consider if you choose to, or need to, digress from that advice. That information is continuously revised and updated. So when Disney changes something (and we all know how Disney loves to do that), TGM members have the latest information. (Admit it, I've got you interested, haven't I? ). I'm not knocking guide books (in fact I own 'em all ), but they're only updated a couple of times a year at best. That's what makes TGM different and worth the subscription fee, IMO.

Of course, whether or not one should subscribe to TGM is a subjective question. It's not like asking 'What time does California Grill open for dinner?'. The point of forums like this is that people post their opinions and then the poster seeking the information can weigh up the pros and cons and make a decision.

Did we ever find out precisely what the OP's question was?

 

[TPCShauna]

UK DEB --

ThankyouThankyouThankyou -- a TGM user that actually tried to answer the question and not just get indignant. Great points, although the UOG is pretty comprehensive about parks on certain days as well (maybe not as much as TGM -- I don't know because I am not a member, though I am thinking of joining -- anyone know where a coupon is??

DH found a code on TheMouseforLess website. I don't have the address handy for the site but he used the code and it only cost him $18.95 to register.

He signed up this morning and has already called me twice to say how much he is finding.

 

[kutchyone]

Shauna,

Make sure to tell him to use the boards as a resource too. Everyone there tries to help out the best that they can. Great advice is given in a timely manner. Make sure he says hi I go by the same name there as I do here.

 

[88Keys]

Thank you!

 

[DisneyMama629]

I'd rather pay the $20 and sign up for TGM and find information all in one place rather than having to wade through message boards on other sites. I used TGM for my honeymoon in July and we never waited longer than 10-15 minutes in line and that's not exaggerating. I think TGM is worth it.

He has express planners that you can plan. I would say one week is really what you need if you had to go through the site quickly. Even the poster who had only 5 days could get some good info because the TGM users on the forums over there would tell you all of the info you needed in a shorter amount of time.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm a satisfied customer of both UG and TGM. My take on both: if you're spending $2000, or more, on a Disney vacation, why not plunk down an extra 2% of the cost and buy them?

I just don't see why folks on both sides of this issue get so excited. Well, actually, I suppose I do. The DIS operates on a community vibe, and TGM's information isn't intended to be shared that way. (And, I suspect if you asked Len directly, he'd tell you that the UG's information that isn't already public isn't intended to be shared that way, either. Does anyone else recall the prohibition on posting snippets of UG's crowd calendar before it was published in toto at touringplans.com?) On the other side, the TGMers are quick to defend a service they really like---in part because many of us view TGM as a personal service rather than simply a reference.

In any event, if you are an infrequent visitor, and don't have a half-dozen trips under your belt, some outside resource is useful. Many people use and like the UG. Others use and like TGM. Some of us use and like both, incorporating from each as we see fit. When both of these resources have something to say on an issue, eight times out of ten they agree. For example, their touring plans are similar, in part because they are common sense: get there early, visit the attractions whose lines build fastest first, etc. The ninth time, they may not say the same thing, but it's probably not a crucial difference---after all, there isn't only one way to visit WDW and have a great time.

Maybe one time in ten they have a different opinion, and it can make a difference, but the difference often boils down to *how* you want to experience WDW, rather than one being "better" than the other. From my perspective, the two resources have a different philosophy. Both are fine approaches, but one has to decide which approach is best for them at any given time.

One difference can be seen in how the touring plans are constructed. The UG wants you to see every attraction you can possibly see, and the touring plans are designed to help you do that. After all, you've paid a lot of money to be here, so you should try to do things you can't do anywhere else. TGM wants you to focus on the best Disney has to offer for your party, and to take that at a pace that doesn't require you to take a vacation to recover from your vacation. So TGM touring plans typically have a list of "must do" attractions, and a list of "maybe-if-time" attractions, and the plan is designed to make sure you see the must-dos and can incorporate the others as you like---a TGM user tends to ask "should we stay and see one more attraction, or would my family be happier if we went to the hotel pool now?"

Another difference comes from Mike's background---he's a paid guide, and so he thinks like a host, not necessarily like a family member. If your family's planner doesn't mind occasionally taking one for the team, then Mike's plans have some interesting wrinkles that I've not seen in any other formal resource, and that are pretty neat.

A third difference is that UG has good offsite coverage---TGM doesn't really consider life outside of The World. In contrast, I've found TGM's park/resort coverage to be more in-depth.

Contrasting both UG and TGM to the DIS: for any question posted on DIS, you'll get ten responses, with six different answers. With the infrequent exception, there is never consensus on *anything* around here. That's fundamentally because. when it comes to matters of opinion, there isn't one right way to do most things. But, for an inexperienced visitor, that's more confusing than it is helpful. The UG and TGM each have slightly different perspectives, but they each speak with one voice, and that's often very useful to someone (like me) who doesn't have time to read DIS for an hour each day.

All that said: if you're someone who's owned an AP for a few years now, and you never bother picking up a guidemap, because you know three ways to get from Space to Splash without looking, then you probably don't need either UG or TGM. Likewise, if WDW planning is your hobby (hobby: anything on which one can spend unlimited amounts of time and money) then daily DIS purusals are probably more your style. That's fine! There's more than one way to skin a six-foot tall rubberhead mouse.

 

[Mymatisse]

I certainly respect, and to some extent, agree with your post. It would be helpful if you gave some information as to why you thought it was a waste of money.

Was the website so confusing you didn't want to take the time to use it?

Was the information mainly common sense stuff that you already knew from DISBOARDS and other internet sites? Things like cutting through the stores in main street to avoid parade crowds.

Were you literally ripped off? Charged twice on your credit card or had a request for a refund refused.

TGM fans you can't have it both ways. Don't complain if the poster wants to post a list of TGM "secrets" that he already knew or that were so obvious to be a "rip off" You really can't have a discussion without a facts.

I'll start with two "secrets" that are common knowledge. Get to the low capacity rides like Dumbo as early in the day as you can. Also go back to Fantasyland during the afternoon parade. Make sure you get a second FP as soon as you're allowed to. Preferably before you even use your current FP.

I've never been a TGM customer but I exchanged some PMs with some TMG customers. I listed about a half dozen tips I've learned through the years. They confirmed that TGM would not give me much additional information.

I suspect TGM would be better than buying a regular guide book for a guest that doesn't want to take the time to go through 2 or 3 internet sites and who want to pay for some type of information.

I already stated why I didn't find it helpful in a previous post. No I wasn't literally "Ripped Off." We weren't charged twice or anything you mention. I just think it was a waste of MY money. The information was not helpful to us, plain and simple.

 

[madgomez]

Ken, I stand by my position. I think TGM's site is a total ripoff. That's my opinion and i'm entitled to it. And I do think it's a waste of money. Again that's my opinion. I thought that was the purpose to this thread to elicit opinions and thoughts about TGM. If you don't like what I have to say that is your right and I respect it, however I don't back down from my original statement.

Mymatisse, may I ask your definition of "total ripoff" ? Perhaps that is where the problem lies. Common venacular would define it as having money stolen from you. Likewise, most would assume a "waste of money" would be a loss of hard earned dollars that you could not recoup. Do you define those differently?

If so, then I think I and others reading this are misunderstanding you. If, however, you mean what most folks would mean when you say "total ripoff" and "waste of money" then you are no longer stating an opinion, but an inaccurate fact. TGM will promptly refund your money - no ripoff, no waste - you get your money back.

I will defend your right to your opinion - you don't like the TGM site. It's not for everyone. But "ripoff" and "waste" seem factually incorrect. Unless you requested a refund and were denied it, why would you say this?

 

[kutchyone]

Lisa,

How did the refund procedure go for you? Was it difficult to receive your money back? Please share what you had to go through in order to get your money back, this would be very helpful to me since I always tell people about the money back guarantee.

 

[Mymatisse]

Mymatisse, may I ask your definition of "total ripoff" ? Perhaps that is where the problem lies. Common venacular would define it as having money stolen from you. Likewise, most would assume a "waste of money" would be a loss of hard earned dollars that you could not recoup. Do you define those differently?

If so, then I think I and others reading this are misunderstanding you. If, however, you mean what most folks would mean when you say "total ripoff" and "waste of money" then you are no longer stating an opinion, but an inaccurate fact. TGM will promptly refund your money - no ripoff, no waste - you get your money back.

I will defend your right to your opinion - you don't like the TGM site. It's not for everyone. But "ripoff" and "waste" seem factually incorrect. Unless you requested a refund and were denied it, why would you say this?

First, something cannot be factually incorrect when you are just stating an opinion. So I said it was a "waste" and indeed it was. No we didn't request a refund because that too would have been a "waste," a waste of time. The simple fact is, we were curious as to what the site was about, I looked at it and personally found it a waste of money. There was no reason to request money back.. it's not like we acidentally signed up for the website. When you purchase something you take a risk that you are not going to need nor like it.

Second, I absolutely refuse to respond to anymore of these nitpicky post doing nothing but jumping on my every word simply because I don't care for TGM. It's just juvenile. Say what you will about respecting someones right to an opinion but the fact that you are attacking my comments really contradict that notion of "respect."

And if you actually read through the thread you will see that I DID state my reasons for not caring for the site. I am not going to rehash my former post.

 

[luuuceee]

If your family's planner doesn't mind occasionally taking one for the team, then Mike's plans have some interesting wrinkles that I've not seen in any other formal resource, and that are pretty neat.

Hee, hee. I know what interesting wrinkles you're talking about... I used the same "wrinkles" at IOA and it worked splendidly...

 

[SnackyStacky]

I'm mymatisse's husband, and I stand behind what she said.

I'm the one that purchased our TourGuideMike subscription and have taken the time to learn the service and how to use it.

While total ripoff is propbably not the best technical way to phrase the feeling, I do feel it was a waste of money. I did not, however, cancel the subscription. I was not able to devote enough time to learn how to use his system within that month, so I kept the subscription. Even after learning the system, I still feel it's a waste of money.

Even after spending the appropriate time learning how to use it, I still feel it was wasted money because:

1.) It's a guidebook. And a REALLY confusing one at that. I can buy plenty of books at the store for a LOT cheaper than the ink it would cost to print everything I'd need on my own. It takes time, and patience to learn how to use his service.

2.) The information he gives isn't that much more in depth than any other guidebook I currently own. And I own a lot of them. I have the Unofficial Guide, Birnbaum's, Passporter, Guide for Couples, Frommer's, Econoguide, Hidden Mickeys, and the Walt Disney World Trivia Book.

3.) I find that a lot of information on the DIS is much more relevant. We've all seen that Disney can set a policy - and 5 different guests will have had varying degrees of the enforcement of that policy. You can talk to people and GET those 5 different degrees - whereas Mike, just like the other guidebooks can ONLY give you the Disney policy.

4.) I found none of these earth shattering secrets. Everything that I read, I already knew. Either from my own personal experience, or from the DIS. And my Walt Disney World personal experience is really not hands-on. Most of my knowledge is from research. I've only visited 6 times.

So - I stand by my wife's opinion - and share it with her.

Those are the reasons that we don't care for TourGuideMike.

And you are more than welcome to disagree with me. But I think I've been pretty plain in stating my reasons as to why I'm not a fan.

 

[Kenswing]

Ken, I stand by my position. I think TGM's site is a total ripoff. That's my opinion and i'm entitled to it. And I do think it's a waste of money. Again that's my opinion. I thought that was the purpose to this thread to elicit opinions and thoughts about TGM. If you don't like what I have to say that is your right and I respect it, however I don't back down from my original statement.

Hi Lisa,

I was never questioning your right to express your opinion. Or asking you to back down from it. I was just trying to get more information, so I could understand it. No harm, no foul.

Ken

 

[kutchyone]

Dan,

Sorry to hear that you didn't ask for a refund, I would have been interested in knowing how that worked out for you.

 

[Brian Noble]

Lisa/Dan: I think you'd be perfectly justified in asking for a refund. After all, TGM can't tell you the information before you pay, so---in some sense---you can't know what you are going to get. Once you get it, if it isn't helpful to you, you are entitled to a refund, and it would only take a minute to send the email message.

 

[luuuceee]

Dan,

I want to thank you for your post. While my experiences with TGM are very different from yours, I appreciate you taking the time to outline all the reasons for your opinion.

For someone trying to decide whether to subscribe to TGM, it really helps to have informative, factual posts outlining both the positive and negative aspects of the site.

Between you and Brian, I think you have done a phenomenal job of showing the good and the bad.

 

[madgomez]

First, something cannot be factually incorrect when you are just stating an opinion.

Well sure it can. For a silly example, if you said you didn't like me because I have purple hair, that would be factually inaccurate because I don't have purple hair. And it would be wrong to say, as then everyone would think that I have purple hair and I don't. The part about not liking me is an opinion - the purple hair is a fact. World of difference - even if you didn't like me, that doesn't make it OK to say I have purple hair simply because its part of the sentence containing an opinion.


You posted your reasons while I was typing my post, so I didn't see it till after my post. And I appreciate your husband setting forth a logical and well articulated explanation of why you all didn't like TGM. That is helpful to folks trying to decide.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

You’re probably correct it is difficult.

Why not spend a couple of dollars to join then you could see if your assumption is correct. Take a few days to review the information and the "secrets". If you find nothing to use for a future more enjoyable trip ask for your money back. And if you do ask for your money back please describe how that process works out for you. Not a single person who has found the TGM site to be terrible has shared with us how easy or hard it was to get their money back and I seriously would love to hear about their experiences.

Here I am. Found the site to be difficult (not terrible, not good). Basically, I wrote to TGM to criticize some broken links, and the lack of updates, and he bit my head off, and practically (figuratively speaking, of course) threw my money back at me. He dumped me, not vice versa. He's a very sensitive guy, evidently.

However much I disliked his site and his business practices, he DID refund my money very readily.