Anyone finding themselves rooting for Harry Potter Land?

[rutgers1]

I just posted this in a thread somewhere else on this site about comparing Universal to Disney.

I am rooting for Harry Potter not only because I would love to visit it, but also because I think it will force Disney to innovate. From what I gather, Harry Potter Land will completely immerse you in the world of HP for an extended period of time, not just for a few minutes like your typical Disney ride. I really like that idea......I think Disney was going for that immersion feeling with Animal Kingdom, but never quite made it happen. I still have hope for that one, though.

I absolutely love a lot of the Disney rides, but as I look back on my multitude of visits to the park, and look ahead to what I hope will be a multitude more in the future, the thing that I find myself hoping for is more immersion. A few thoughts....

1) I think an area of major potential is Animal Kingdom. I still don't feel the immersion there. I can't quite put my finger on what it would take, but there is major potential there.

2) But aside from that, I think that most of the areas within Magic Kingdom can be rethemed. The one that sticks out to me is Tomorrowland. I really don't feel like I am in the future when I am there - yet if they could do that, it would be an instant crowd pleaser for years. Even Fantasyland seems dated to me, as I believe they could be doing much more to give you that "fantasy" feeling. Plus, the image of what fantasy is has evolved in recent years. Unfortunately, we are still dealing with a 1960's definition of theming, and there is so much more they can do with it.

 

[AnnaS]

We love WDW - having said that it's been years since we have been to Universal. Once this opens, will definitely make a stop there when we are down. I am looking forward to a new theme.

 

[Metro West]

I just posted this in a thread somewhere else on this site about comparing Universal to Disney.

I am rooting for Harry Potter not only because I would love to visit it, but also because I think it will force Disney to innovate. From what I gather, Harry Potter Land will completely immerse you in the world of HP for an extended period of time, not just for a few minutes like your typical Disney ride. I really like that idea......I think Disney was going for that immersion feeling with Animal Kingdom, but never quite made it happen. I still have hope for that one, though.

I absolutely love a lot of the Disney rides, but as I look back on my multitude of visits to the park, and look ahead to what I hope will be a multitude more in the future, the thing that I find myself hoping for is more immersion. A few thoughts....

1) I think an area of major potential is Animal Kingdom. I still don't feel the immersion there. I can't quite put my finger on what it would take, but there is major potential there.

2) But aside from that, I think that most of the areas within Magic Kingdom can be rethemed. The one that sticks out to me is Tomorrowland. I really don't feel like I am in the future when I am there - yet if they could do that, it would be an instant crowd pleaser for years. Even Fantasyland seems dated to me, as I believe they could be doing much more to give you that "fantasy" feeling. Plus, the image of what fantasy is has evolved in recent years. Unfortunately, we are still dealing with a 1960's definition of theming, and there is so much more they can do with it.

Yes...I'm looking forward to it too...even though I know nothing of the HP series. AND...we won't have to worry about Hanna Montana or HSM showing their presence at IOA!

 

[jfinke]

I like the fact that Universal is pushing Disney to develop new attractions. I realize that a lot of people don't like some of those attractions like Mission to Mars, but I enjoy that unique ride.

However, my one time at Universal, I found the employees to be rude and actually made derogatory remarks towards WDW during preshows on a stage. I was disappointed that they could not let their park stand on its own without degenerating something else.

 

[rutgers1]

jfinke....Do you think that Universal is pushing Disney to innovate as or right now? It is my perception that Disney hasn't been pushed enough. Yes, they added some more thrill rides when it was clear that even your neighborhood Six Flags was destroying them in that respects, but I don't think that they have really done enough to distance themselves from other rapidly improving parks.

I absolutely love Disney and would rather be there than any place in the world, but it is my perception that the past decade or two have been about expansion - offering more (DVC, Animal Kingdom, water parks, new hotels). At this point, I think there is enough in terms of destinations (enough parks, enough hotels, etc.). I would like to see them pour money into the places that are already there through:
1) taking the theming to the next level....setting a standard so high that other parks couldn't possible match it. Unfortunately, I fear that Harry Potter Land will be the trendsetter in that regard.
2) adding new lands that truly carry the theme from beginning to end - not like the current lands at Magic Kingdom, which were great in the 1960's but not as innovative by today's standards.

 

[Another Voice]

The concept of the "theme park" is evolving and Disney here isn't really keeping up.

The "lands" in Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom are designed to serve as "genres" for the attractions that they contain. The parks function like movie theaters - if the theater tells you that they're showing a "western" than you come into the movie with certain expectations and background knowledge that the movie doesn't have to explain. Imagine that every western movie had to sit down like The Lord of the Rings had to and explain everything's background - what a 'cowboy' was, etc.

That's what the traditional theme parks' areas accomplished. They said "this is the Old American West" and gave you all the reminders so that Disney didn't have to explain a runaway mine train, a saloon, and a steamboat. Everyone already understood "when and where" they are and the "lands" where the sets that the stories were played against.

But in some ways theme parks have evolved into creating entire environments. Instead of just a generic "western" set, they can become "real" places and stories themselves - with fictional histories and characters. The individual attractions are there to support the overall concept of the land rather than the other way around.

The concept has already been done by Disney, both done well and done poorly. Pleasure Island was done in this style, an attempt to create an "imaginary reality", but the story was both too complex and too uninteresting for it to work.. Bits, like the Adventurer's Club" brilliantly carried off the concept, other bits like the greenhouse turned Country Bar/BET Lounge didn't work at all.

The place where Disney really made it work was in Tokyo DisneySea. I see this as the bar that Universal is attempting reach with Harry Potter rather than being able to outdo Disney. Walking through DisneySea's American Waterfront feels like walking the streets of Old New York, walking into the bubbling steaming caldron of Mysterious Island is to step into the movie 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.


The problem with Disney in the U.S. is with the strategic direction of the parks. Disney sees the parks as ancillary marketing for their movies, not as a business in their own right. New attractions are meant to sell new DVDs, not be reasons for people to come to the parks in the first place. The parks the creatively stiffled into retelling Finding Nemo twenty different times and pimping out fairies for meet-n-greets.

Until that attitude is changed, it doesn't matter what Universal does.

 

[jfinke]

I don't know... I can certainly tell you that Mission to Mars is unique and innovative. Yes, it is not "fairy tale Disney". But, it is certainly pushing the boundaries of what is out there. It fits in with Epcot as Epcot was designed. It is certainly better than the video games and "home of the future" waste of space in Innovations.

Here is part of the problem I think that Disney has to deal with. The Internet has changed a lot of things. Home Entertainment has changed a lot of things. Many people have better setups in their home than what you can find at theaters.

The Wii has given us interactive gaming on a next level. Yes, it is kind of hokey, but it is going to consistently get better. Video games have been better in the house than in the arcade for years besides motion based ones. That is how they differentiate themselves. I can play a Internet based game in real time with 30 other people with VOIP and it is like we are sitting in the same room.

So, Disney needs to be able to build attractions that are either timeless, or attractions which can be on the bleeding edge. And stay on the bleeding edge.

Now, is Spiderman any more innovative than Dinosaur? Or Mummy vs. Everest? I don't know. But, they are certainly more immersive than rides developed 20 - 30 years ago. It is a general rule of thumb that competition breeds innovation.

Take a ride like Jungle Cruise. It is pretty hokey by today's standards. I am sure that it was state of the art when it was built. But, it just doesn't hold up to today's technology standards. So why is it so popular? Part of it is probably nostalgia. But, I bet the bigger part is the CMs that entertain on boat ride.

I think that US and WDW are different types of "theme parks". I view US as a step above six flags, worlds of fun, Kings Island. WDW is in a category by itself, but you can't just rest on your laurels.

Plus, there is the service aspect. I expect to be treated royally when I am at WDW. I don't expect that treatment at other parks. Unfortunately, I think that they are slipping down to the competition in this aspect.

Who knows, we may all have immersive 3-D devices in our homes in 20 years and we won't have to go anywhere.

But that is just my humble opinion and I am sure I will get ripped up for it.

 

[ChrisFL]

I like the fact that Universal is pushing Disney to develop new attractions. I realize that a lot of people don't like some of those attractions like Mission to Mars, but I enjoy that unique ride.

However, my one time at Universal, I found the employees to be rude and actually made derogatory remarks towards WDW during preshows on a stage. I was disappointed that they could not let their park stand on its own without degenerating something else.

I think you're referring to Mission:Space...Mission to Mars is the old Tomorrowland attraction that closed around 1993. I also have a lot of issues with Mission:Space but that's for another topic

Also, yes, there are some Universal attractions that take some light hearted shots at Disney, realize that a LOT of Universal's creative team worked for Disney before, so it's not mean spirited really. A lot of Disney cast members also work at Universal.

 

[jfinke]

Doh... I always call it Mission to Mars.

Well, this kid was particularly spiteful... Don't know why. Basically said we don't fake happiness over here like they do across the street we are just here and was rude about it. If he was good natured about it, I wouldn't have even noticed. It screamed inferiority complex and little brother syndrome.

I said to my wife, of course Disney fakes happiness. No one is always that happy. That is why I pay WDW prices. If I wanted to deal with carnival people I would go to a state fair. That is part of the "Disney Magic" and we pay dearly for it.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Harry Potter holds no interest for me whatsoever. Never read any of the books, saw just the first movie. But next trip to Universal (we go once every 4-5 years) I'll probably go and see what's HP is like.
As to if it will "push" Disney or not--who knows?

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I like the fact that Universal is pushing Disney to develop new attractions. I realize that a lot of people don't like some of those attractions like Mission to Mars, but I enjoy that unique ride.

However, my one time at Universal, I found the employees to be rude and actually made derogatory remarks towards WDW during preshows on a stage. I was disappointed that they could not let their park stand on its own without degenerating something else.

Before you point fingers at Universal employees....go over to Whispering Canyon Cafe if you want to hear castmember comments!!! They make me laugh.


In the current economy, WDW can't afford to loose ONE day of our travel plans to Universal.

I have said it before.......HP is going to bring about some great discounts at WDW - and more crowded parks at Universal.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I think you're referring to Mission:Space...Mission to Mars is the old Tomorrowland attraction that closed around 1993. I also have a lot of issues with Mission:Space but that's for another topic

Also, yes, there are some Universal attractions that take some light hearted shots at Disney, realize that a LOT of Universal's creative team worked for Disney before, so it's not mean spirited really. A lot of Disney cast members also work at Universal.

You are right about former castmembers working at Universal.......they go there for more $$$ and better working conditions.

I worked with a former WDW castmember who transferred to US for those very reasons!

 

[jfinke]

Just relaying what I observed at this particular attraction. We had fun at US. I just didn't understand why even bother with mentioning the competition.

 

[Another Voice]

I can certainly tell you that Mission to Mars is unique and innovative.

Yet no one wants to ride the thing. There are more to attractions than technology. Gimmicks only interest people for a short time.

 

[ChrisFL]

Yet no one wants to ride the thing. There are more to attractions than technology. Gimmicks only interest people for a short time.

There's other reasons why people aren't riding it though, people getting sick and lots of bad publicity.

 

[TDC Nala]

Closest I ever found to true immersion for a period of time longer than a few minutes at WDW was the Adventurers Club and it's gone now. Maybe Harry Potter World or whatever they want to call it will take a cue from that.

I LOVE the Simpson ride's takeoff on Disney.

Hasn't the "no spinning" version of Mission Space solved that problem?

 

[jfinke]

I love riding it. But, that may just be me.

vs. something like TestTrack where I can get a bigger thrill driving through rush hour. And my car has yet to break down on me. Knock on wood.

 

[ChrisFL]

Hasn't the "no spinning" version of Mission Space solved that problem?

Yes, but the damage was done I think.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

IMO, MS gets a bad rap because it was an expensive atttraction that was touted to be the next GREAT thing. It wasn't, but it is what it is, a nice addition to Epcot that some people like, some dislike and should never have been considered the end all.

As for The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, I can't understand why anyone would root against it being successful in the first place. This us vs. them attitude of some (mostly Disney fans) is crazy. Anything USO does that is good only benefits us, the guests of the theme parks and that's all we're talking here, theme paks.

Disney doesn't care about Universal's Potter and they'll never respond directly but may make adjustments if it hits their pocketbook, which IMO, won't happen because even the opening of IOA impacted WDW very, very little. Now, in this economy and in the current state of Disney priority nothing significant will ever be done in response to so called competition. In fact I think WDW is basically a finished product at this point.

 

[jfinke]

So, you are saying that WDW needs more pirates? <joke >