Anyone ever fly private?

[KAYLI'S DAD]

I’ve read online that sometimes you can fly on a private plane for the same price as commercial if you have enough people. Every website I’ve searched says it will cost almost $10,000. Wondering if anyone knows another website to check.

 

[MrsBooch]

My dad is an ex private charter pilot who owned a charter company and I've had the ancillary privilege of flying private the majority of my youth. My dad's business typically worked with corporations, or just people with a lot of money, to charter one off's at their leisure however, there are clubs that you can join that advertise in magazines like Robb Report, and you basically are time sharing the cost of the useage of the plane.

Depending on the plane you are looking at a minimum buy in of $10 to $15k for maybe 2 trips annually plus hourly costs that can start at $4k per hour depending on mileage. This would cover you and up to 5-10 other people depending on the airplane. There may be additional hidden costs as well as the cost to fly private is primarily made up of maintenance of an airplane. This includes the cost to land, the cost to park it in whatever airport plus even more if you park it in a hanger vs. just a spot on the tarmac, the cost to keep everything working, the cost to maintain the pilot and copilot and any other crew, depending on the size of the plane (some of the smaller charter planes do not require any type of crew) the cost to pay the mechanics etc.. Fuel costs are obviously part of the overall costs but maintenance and landing fees can be what add up the quickest.

You are paying to cover the costs of owning an airplane without owning the airplane.

It's definitely a lifestyle choice, there is nothing quite like landing, getting out, getting into a car, and not going through security or dealing with other people - but having grown up in the industry I can tell you there is NO way it is ever going to be the same price as flying commercial unless you are dropping tens of thousands of dollars on commercial flights annually.

 

[GingerPilot]

There is almost no way that chartering will be less expensive per person over taking the airlines. You're saving time, aggravation and adding convenience by flying private. I fly private airplanes for a living, actually pretty economical ones, and they still cost four figures an hour just to operate without including crew, reposition fees or profit.

That being said, we own a couple of airplanes for pleasure flying outside of work and if we can swing it time wise (they're slow) we always fly ourselves. Worth every penny, which is also why I have a job.

 

[_19disnA]

Have seen those ads on TV for some like NetJets and a few others. They each have their own website where you can see what they offer. Basically, it looks like an ENORMOUSLY expensive way to fly. So unless you are in the 'money is no object' club, probably not a practical way to travel. If you find some shoe-string operation offering low cost flights, I would ask a LOT more questions about their safety record, pilot qualifications, etc. As others have said, this method of flying is almost always going to X times as expensive as flying commercial.

 

[JimMIA]

Have seen those ads on TV for some like NetJets and a few others. They each have their own website where you can see what they offer. Basically, it looks like an ENORMOUSLY expensive way to fly. So unless you are in the 'money is no object' club, probably not a practical way to travel. If you find some shoe-string operation offering low cost flights, I would ask a LOT more questions about their safety record, pilot qualifications, etc. As others have said, this method of flying is almost always going to X times as expensive as flying commercial.

Agree, and also be careful that you understand whether the company is flying their own aircraft, using their own pilots...or just brokering for who knows who?

NetJets is owned by Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet's company), is the largest worldwide, and I believe fly only their own aircraft with their own pilots. It is a little bit like a timeshare for aircraft -- fractional ownership. Delta Private Jets and XOJet are two other large companies.

I have heard (but don't know if it is true) that NetJets fractional ownerships -- for the lightest aircraft and smallest fraction -- start around $200K + about $7K per hour operating expense. But those costs can rise exponentially for various reasons. In winter weather, for example, it can cost $5K to $20K to de-ice an aircraft -- and that can add hugely to the cost of that particular flight. Private jet travel is definitely for those for whom it's pocket change.

There some offshoots of private which operate "shared" private aviation. You pay somewhat more than normal first class fare, and you share the aircraft with strangers...which could be okay or horrible.

 

[holden]

I know a family that fly to Vero Beach often. They always take a private plane. My friends have been invited to fly with them for free. Must be nice!

 

[GingerPilot]

Have seen those ads on TV for some like NetJets and a few others. They each have their own website where you can see what they offer. Basically, it looks like an ENORMOUSLY expensive way to fly. So unless you are in the 'money is no object' club, probably not a practical way to travel. If you find some shoe-string operation offering low cost flights, I would ask a LOT more questions about their safety record, pilot qualifications, etc. As others have said, this method of flying is almost always going to X times as expensive as flying commercial.

This isn't the best advice. The most under the table bootleg charter operators are not necessarily cheap, or even cheaper.

And if you don't know what you're looking for asking for pilot qualifications and safety records is not terribly useful. This industry is not black and white. I could write a thesis on it but that isn't what this thread is about. The bottom line is that private aviation is incredibly expensive but incredibly worth it if your time is valuable.

 

[Wmuflyguy]

You get what you pay for in aviation.

 

[beccasmom]

The husband of one of my cousins (he has since passed) once owned his own plane. His heirs chose to sell it because they thought the costs were prohibitive and could better be allocated elsewhere (they weren’t using it often enough that keeping it made sense). They don’t seem to regret the decision although I’m sure they enjoyed it while it lasted.

 

[Wmuflyguy]

Even a used Small 4 seat airplane that is 15-20 years old will start at the price of most luxury automobiles ($45k plus). Even renting one will cost 110+ an hour.

you want something built this side of 2000 will cost 6 figures plus to buy. New they run $250k plus. Renting one will be north of $150 an hour.

And all that is if you have a pilots license. Plus the inherent drawbacks of small planes (very limited cargo space, oh and NO bathroom)

Anything with a jet engine is probably starting at $4k an hour to charter.

Airliner sized aircraft is now getting in $6k to north of $10k and hour.

My point, planes are expensive. The fact air fares have gotten to where they are now is nothing short of miraculous

 

[sam_gordon]

Even a used Small 4 seat airplane that is 15-20 years old will start at the price of most luxury automobiles ($45k plus). Even renting one will cost 110+ an hour.

I've dreamed of getting my PPL for decades and once the kids are out of college, hope to make that #1 on my bucket list.

But, just doing some quick math (and looking at prices for rental in our area)...
Home -> Orlando is ~660 air miles. Let's say 700 to make the math easy.
Cruising speed of a 172 (according to Wiki) is ~122knots, so ~140mph. We'll say 125mph to again make the math easier. So 700 miles/125mph = 5.6 hours one way. We'll say 6. So 12 hours round trip. 12 hours * $150/hour = $1800.
I have no idea what it would cost to park a plane for week. Let's round up to $2k.

You can put 4 people in the 172, so $500 each.
If I get RT from my home airport (more likely need to drive 90 minutes away) for <$250, I'm doing pretty good.

So yes, flying private would be more expensive, but...
* No TSA
* No depending on airline scheduling
* No missing luggage

But, I'm not sure how long it takes to "prep" the plane before flying. And, unless you have an instrument rating, you are more subject to weather (and of course, I didn't include the $10k just to get the PPL)

I still wish I could do it.

 

[JimMIA]

A young friend of mine (early 20's) has his private license and 100 hours. I've been trying to encourage him to continue and get his commercial license because I know there is a pilot shortage now, and it is getting worse. He's involved in professional athletics for now, but when that ends I hope he'll look for something he can make a career of.

 

[rg35]

The fact air fares have gotten to where they are now is nothing short of miraculous

The largest airlines in the U.S. have been posting record profits (including in the area of $5 billion from bag fees alone) over the last several years. Base fares may have reached a low point this year, but due to added fees most flyers are not actually paying less to fly. There are no miracles here. Late stage capitalism is hard at work fueling corporate profits.

 

[Wmuflyguy]

I've dreamed of getting my PPL for decades and once the kids are out of college, hope to make that #1 on my bucket list.

But, just doing some quick math (and looking at prices for rental in our area)...
Home -> Orlando is ~660 air miles. Let's say 700 to make the math easy.
Cruising speed of a 172 (according to Wiki) is ~122knots, so ~140mph. We'll say 125mph to again make the math easier. So 700 miles/125mph = 5.6 hours one way. We'll say 6. So 12 hours round trip. 12 hours * $150/hour = $1800.
I have no idea what it would cost to park a plane for week. Let's round up to $2k.

You can put 4 people in the 172, so $500 each.
If I get RT from my home airport (more likely need to drive 90 minutes away) for <$250, I'm doing pretty good.

So yes, flying private would be more expensive, but...
* No TSA
* No depending on airline scheduling
* No missing luggage

But, I'm not sure how long it takes to "prep" the plane before flying. And, unless you have an instrument rating, you are more subject to weather (and of course, I didn't include the $10k just to get the PPL)

I still wish I could do it.

The real issue is weather and useful load of the plane. Airlines fly in pretty much anything within reason.

With a 172 you’ll need pretty nice weather for 700 miles. Florida is particularly problematic with thunderstorms. Depending on proficiency you’ll want decent winds at you departure and arrival points. If you have deposits riding on you making it or not it tends for pilots to push it into conditions they shouldn’t be in.


Instrument rating in a c172 is more to get you out of trouble if you wander into it. Every pilot really should have one, but it’s only as good as the work you put into maintaining currency.


The other issue is useful load. A C172 has a max weight of 2550 lbs. it weighs about 1680lbs empty, WITHOUT GAS. Full tanks is 56 gallons, which weighs 336 lbs (6lb a gallon). So full tanks is 2016lbs. Leaves you 534 lbs for passengers AND luggage.

If you take a partial fuel load of 35 gallons, you can fly about 2.5 to 3 hours. You would have 660lbs for passengers and bags. two - 200lb adults and two- 100 lb kids and 60 lbs of luggage.

Doable but have to make a fuel stop.Which for me would be fine. The chance of someone not having to pee after two hours is probably zero.

Even jets run into this problem from time to time. Some planes are better than others, it’s important to look at when deciding on an aircraft to buy or rent. It’s always a math problem

it’s doable but it takes a lot of planning and self discipline. Honestly typing this made made me revisit why I don’t have the desire to own a plane and fly the wife and I on trips.

 

[StageTek]

I’ve read online that sometimes you can fly on a private plane for the same price as commercial if you have enough people.

Sometimes you can.

Sometimes a private charter will have a seat or two open and offers those seats. Sometimes a group will charter a private plane and split the cost - and sometimes that cost could be about the same as flying commercial if you have enough people. You found websites that say it will cost almost $10,000. Get 15 people together and that's getting close to standard business class commercial. Much better than First Class - and that's what you're getting; First Class.

 

[Wmuflyguy]

I don’t think your getting a business jet that seats 15 people for $10k on a flight of any appreciable distance. A G5 max seating is 16, standard setup is probably 8-12 and costs 7000+ and hour

There were a couple companies doing the “sell seats on a private jet thing”, but you are losing flexibility as the plane is going at a certain time to a certain place and you have little say.

jetsuite was a company that was charging cheap prices to fly on their empty legs. Again same issue, the departure airport and arrival airport are set up and the plane is leaving at a certain time. It’s just hard to find one that would fill your specific itinerary.

JetsuiteX sells single seats on already established itinerary. So same issues.

I’d think your best bet would be on a high frequency route like Lax to Vegas for a good number of empty legs.

 

[Ladyandthepuppies]

I have never flown private but I would love to live that pj life!

I did take a trip once with a very large group (450-ish people) and we chartered our own flights on American Airlines. We still had to go through general security but we got a discount on our plane tickets.

 

[RogueX]

I can't speak for the feeling of flying in a private plane, my husband is a helicopter pilot. He had a student who wanted to practice a little more around the mountains and grab lunch. We left from MA and landed at a helipad by a restaurant in VT. That was a fun trip and the looks we got were pretty funny.

 

[GingerPilot]

Even a used Small 4 seat airplane that is 15-20 years old will start at the price of most luxury automobiles ($45k plus). Even renting one will cost 110+ an hour.

you want something built this side of 2000 will cost 6 figures plus to buy. New they run $250k plus. Renting one will be north of $150 an hour.

You can buy a decent, well equipped airplane for $40k. Year doesn't matter, beside the radios/GPS the airplanes are essentially the same.. The only people buying new airplanes are huge flight school with deep pockets. And you can put all the fancy radios in the older stuff. The cost varies a ton based on your location.. SoCal is gonna be more expensive than Michigan, just like anything else. I tell people to plan for $10-11k (Arizona) for the private and $10k for instrument if they choose to do so.

Honestly, a huge percentage of the population could afford to own and fly their own small airplane IF it was a priority to them. How much do people spend on boats, RVs, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles and lavash vacations? A lot more than the $10k to learn to fly... or the $400/mo an airplane payment would be for an average entry level airplane. It's about choices and priorities. If I never set foot on an airline flight for the rest of my life I'd be thrilled to fly across the country at 200mph. But I have to get to work to fly work airplanes which means airlines and TSA and all the garbage my passengers are paying me to avoid.

 

[Wmuflyguy]

Everyone’s different. On vacation, I’d rather sit back and enjoy a coke while someone else does the work for a change, instead of having to plan or worry about the litany of things that come with flying yourself.

I’m probably an oddity. Love my job, but at this point in my life I don’t really have a burning desire to fly on my time off.