Anyone else feeling nervous about these Boeing issues?

[GoingSince1990]

You should be at least 10,000 times more worried about driving on a highway.

 

[Kooks and Bay Bay]

With the amount of issues as of late yes I'm becoming a slightly nervous flyer.

Although more than the actual plane I am still much more concerned about how many delayed and cancelled flights there have been in the last few years.

I've chose to drive to Disney last year and will do so again this year because I like the control and freedom I have.

 

[GoingSince1990]

With the amount of issues as of late yes I'm becoming a slightly nervous flyer.

Although more than the actual plane I am still much more concerned about how many delayed and cancelled flights there have been in the last few years.

I've chose to drive to Disney last year and will do so again this year because I like the control and freedom I have.

Years ago the FAA considered requiring children under 2 to have their own seat on airplanes. And while this would undeniably make airplane travel safer for under 2s, when they thought it through they realized that due to the increased cost, more families would drive instead of fly, significantly increasing the fatality rate since mile for mile, driving is many times more dangerous than flying. The plan was quickly dropped.

 

[Rogue1677x]

I'll never get on a plane again. At least not a commercial aircraft. Not afraid to fly, I'm a helicopter pilot. My problem is commercial air travel is such a painful process, a true PITA I'm not willing to put up with any longer.
EDIT: Sorry, this thread is about safety. I'm fairly sure the flight process itself is still safe. My worries would be is the maintenance crew keeping up with all the service. These planes turn around a lot in a 24 hour period. Plus the skies are pretty crowded now and ATC is very very busy in some areas.

You sound just like my husband....also a helicopter pilot. He says the only reason he ever gets on an airplane is because I love to travel so much and we can't afford a private plane for ourselves.

 

[elvispursley]

I fly Alaska almost exclusively. After this door blow out, I’ll admit I’m now more nervous than normal. The reason for my hesitancy is that I live in Hawaii and fly to/from the mainland frequently. That plane with the door plug issue did the Honolulu route to Seattle. Makes me worried about any maintenance issue with a 6hr flight over the pacific. If that plane had that issue over the pacific…but I figure the max 9 that Alaska flies almost exclusively to/ HNL to SEA have likely been gone over with a fine tooth comb for issues. The alternative of never leaving Hawaii is totally unrealistic.

 

[EACarlson]

I think the general public is hearing more about these things because the large media companies are reporting it more often. Most of these issues were not reported on a couple years ago or got a quick mention if it happened in your town. If you find an aviation site that aggregates the reports of diversions, go arounds and incidents, you'd find the rate of them is about the same as it's been for years. Now there is more video and fewer thoughts of what is actually newsworthy.

 

[xdan0920]

Heck yeah I am more nervous. Just saw I will be on a 737-Max to Nashville and I am considering changing flights to get off that plane. There have been way to many problems, couple that with the whistleblower and the video from inside the manufacturing plant, it's a lot to swallow.

 

[tony67]

If you find an aviation site that aggregates the reports of diversions, go arounds and incidents, you'd find the rate of them is about the same as it's been for years. Now there is more video and fewer thoughts of what is actually newsworthy.

Yeah agreed - I avoid these sites as much as possible. For a while I was getting them in my feed on my phone. I don't need to see that.
That said - I don't think a door blowing off and the bolt not being installed was all that common.

You should be at least 10,000 times more worried about driving on a highway.

Its a somewhat irrational feel - so the facts don't really matter.
I've gotten past my fears of flying. but it took a long time and only started after a very bad experience.
Most important thing is it never really stopped me from flying and doing things - but flying was pretty awful - even the most minimal turbulence can be very stressful.

All that said - I feel like the last 20 years have been the safest for air travel - not sure how true that is - but it seems like it. (Knock on wood)

 

[Captain UP]

Air travel has never been safer in history than it is today. Regardless of these issues.

 

[lowlight]

Air travel has never been safer in history than it is today. Regardless of these issues.

Yes, that is correct. The issue and the title of the thread is Boeing, though, and people not wanting to get on a Boeing is not an irrational aversion. I was told by an industry parts supplier to not get on a plane with a Pratt and Whitney engine for the next 5 or so years, so there’s that also. Something to do with plating on engine parts falling off, but the news hasn’t reported on it shockingly.

Flying is the safest it has ever been, but that’s in spite of, and not because of, the corporate atmosphere at Boeing. The FAA allows Boeing to self certify, which I understand the reasons for, but allowing a company that is beholden to shareholders to self certify when they’ve proven decisions are made in the board room (to cut corners) and not by engineers (to save lives) is a scary prospect.

 

[japanese maple]

I must be out of the loop. I of course heard about the door issue, but what else has been going on?

We fly there on an airbus and home on Boeing in December. Maybe with all the issues, Boeing will be the safest thing around in December.

 

[lowlight]

I must be out of the loop. I of course heard about the door issue, but what else has been going on?

We fly there on an airbus and home on Boeing in December. Maybe with all the issues, Boeing will be the safest thing around in December.

Besides 2 of the top 10 deadliest plane crashes in the past decade caused by the MCAS on the Max planes that should have been a known issue, or the fact that the Max planes exist at all is only because Boeing wanted to reuse an airframe and save money to beat Airbus?

 

[japanese maple]

I could switch to a later morning flight which is on the Airbus A321neo, which is a nicer plane. We would be leaving out of MCO at 9:50 instead of 7:45. Later flights make me a bit nervous of delays, but I looked at flight history and that seems to be a pretty on-time flight. Plus I like the airbus better.

I decided to switch. Same price, better plane.

 

[foolish_mortals]

I’m sure they have been scrutinized thoroughly…The problem is, when you have cut corners and costs on the design.

Their design was/is flawed and the fix is a software bandaid. They didn’t have time to redesign the engines, wings, or body because it’s too expensive, requires additional certification, and the competitor is ahead! Won’t someone think of the share price?! That is the problem.

They would do piecemeal fixes and downplay design flaws rather than come out and essentially recall an entire line. I’m sure they wish they could do what Kia is doing: “sorry, we built it wrong, but here: you can BUY a kit and fix it yourself.”

I work for a similarly profit driven company and we have weekly calls where managers need to justify a discrepancy in estimates: “Oh no! We’re off by $500 (<.1%) because Janet only took 2 days of vacation instead of 3! Whew, good thing it’s a 5 week month, the numbers should still look good!”

The shareholders must be appeased at all costs…and I mean all costs.

 

[Captain UP]

Yes, that is correct. The issue and the title of the thread is Boeing, though, and people not wanting to get on a Boeing is not an irrational aversion. I was told by an industry parts supplier to not get on a plane with a Pratt and Whitney engine for the next 5 or so years, so there’s that also. Something to do with plating on engine parts falling off, but the news hasn’t reported on it shockingly.

Flying is the safest it has ever been, but that’s in spite of, and not because of, the corporate atmosphere at Boeing. The FAA allows Boeing to self certify, which I understand the reasons for, but allowing a company that is beholden to shareholders to self certify when they’ve proven decisions are made in the board room (to cut corners) and not by engineers (to save lives) is a scary prospect.

So if it's in spite of Boeing and they make more than half the commercial aircraft in service in this country, how and why has it gotten safer?

 

[lowlight]

So if it's in spite of Boeing and they make more than half the commercial aircraft in service in this country, how and why has it gotten safer?

I’m not sure what you are arguing here. It’s like saying vehicle safety in the 70’s was better than in the 50’s so the Pinto was a completely safe car to ride in. Not to mention aviation safety is affected by weather radar improvements, pilot training standards, air traffic controller training, which have all made improvements. Boeing is having safety issues, those are facts, why are you trying to make it seem otherwise?

 

[Captain UP]

I’m not sure what you are arguing here. It’s like saying vehicle safety in the 70’s was better than in the 50’s so the Pinto was a completely safe car to ride in. Not to mention aviation safety is affected by weather radar improvements, pilot training standards, air traffic controller training, which have all made improvements. Boeing is having safety issues, those are facts, why are you trying to make it seem otherwise?

I don't disagree that they are having safety issues.

But, in the long run, they've been a much greater factor in IMPROVING safety than they have been a detractor from it.

 

[EACarlson]

I must be out of the loop. I of course heard about the door issue, but what else has been going on?

We fly there on an airbus and home on Boeing in December. Maybe with all the issues, Boeing will be the safest thing around in December.

A tire fell of a plane in Miami, a hydraulic hose let loose on a plane from San Francisco and a few other things that are largely maintenance issues.

Besides 2 of the top 10 deadliest plane crashes in the past decade caused by the MCAS on the Max planes that should have been a known issue, or the fact that the Max planes exist at all is only because Boeing wanted to reuse an airframe and save money to beat Airbus?

Both of those crashes were at least partially attributable to pilot error in not knowing how to override MCAS and the Lion Air crash in particular on bad maintenance as the frame had the same issue the previous day, was overridden by the pilots but remained in service.

 

[lowlight]

Both of those crashes were at least partially attributable to pilot error in not knowing how to override MCAS and the Lion Air crash in particular on bad maintenance as the frame had the same issue the previous day, was overridden by the pilots but remained in service.

You have part of the story there, and if you’ve just googled it to make a rebuttal I suggest you do a longer dive on aviation forums where industry experts talk about it and not news reporters, it’s actually a sad and fascinating tale of corporate greed. I’ll let you have the last reply, arguing with Disboarders about Boeing wasn’t on my Bingo card today.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I was getting nervous. But I got nervous from Finland and needed to go back to CA lol. 2 continents, 1 ocean and 3 Boeing planes later I can report that fear was ridiculous and aviation is still a very safe way to travel. I’m embarrassed I let the fear get to me at all.

But do wear the seatbelt when seated, turbulence happens. The plane will be fine and the seatbelt will keep you fine