Anybody else want DDP to end!!

[kimntrent]

Again my question comes into the picture, how do those of you who do take advantage of the program (and those who do it know who they are), continue to think that it is acceptable. I am not saying that if you are budget conscietious you should not participate in the program, nor am I saying you should be grateful, what I am asking is this: If you are given a freebe, why would you go beyond what is acceptable and become excessive. I have seen way too many posts from those who are excessive and it is sad to see many be proud of themselves for their accomplishments.
QUOTE]

Amen! Thank you for finally saying what I couldn't figure out how to say.

 

[Lizzy2]

I'm sorry but one month of free dining could not possibly be the reason for all that you are blaming it for! The DDP brings in more business for Disney as that is what they are about...MAKING MONEY. Your post makes it sound like all those who come to Disney and take advantage of the free dining are ruining your experience...come ON. Is the food only good if only certain people can afford it? You should be glad you can afford "top notch" dining. The Free DDP allows so many families who could not afford to come otherwise to experience the magic of Disney. Which is really point isn't it? That was Walt's original vision... Disney isn't some snobby country club where only the elite are allowed to enjoy...it's for everyone.

Change is hard, but times they are a-changing...I've heard things are VERY expensive at Disneyland Paris...perhaps you should try there!

Can I get an AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rcyannacci]

Yes, I have been saying this for some time. You make some very good points. This "plan" is doomed to failure in that it takes away any incentive for any restaurant to strive for excellence. Standardized is a good description and a good point! I mean failure also in the sense that it does just that...standardizes everything.

FYI...food standardization is something that's been going on for the greater half of the twentieth century and beyond...and it's certainly not something new to the Disney property. WDW is a corporation, and even if chefs at certain "signiture" restaurants are given latitude with their menus, they also have to take into account the buying practices of the company, including purchasing large quantities of certain food stocks.

If you want a break from standardization, then WDW is really not the right vacation for you. It's in the business of mass-producing and mass-marketing entertainment. And, there is nothing inherently bad about that, IMO, but you can't knock the company for standardization.

 

[lovemickeyshouse]

Hate To Burst Your Bubble But I Am Goin Cause Of The Free Dining Plan Otherwise Would Not Go In Hurricane Season First Week Of October And Stayin 8 Nights

 

[Lizzy2]

Amen again!!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

congratulations lovesmickeyshouse, if this is your desire you'd be a fool to pass it up but don't think your participation is ruffling anyone's feathers. It's not about you or those participating it's about what the plan does to the overall picture. You're getting a great deal and you'll most likely love it. Let's see if that holds true two, three years from now. That's our, well, at least that's my concern.

rc...food standardization may be what America is all about and Disney may be following suit but don't try to tell people that Disney (as a big conglomerate) has always operated this way. The chef's in charge of the original Signature restaurants were given a theme and had all but total free reign in what they did. The same is much less true today. This is fact.

 

[Viki]

The history of food at WDW is of some interest. Some of you other veterans, who were there in the first few years of of the World, may well remember that the food was next to inedible; Cinderella's Castle was the worst of the worst. You were, most assuredly, better off grabbing a hamburger, but even that would be overcooked and similarly priced.

This situation persisted for many years, but imagine my surprise a few years later, when, after having moved back up north, I came back down for a visit only to find the food darn good. And IMHO it's only been improving ever since - both in variety and grade (though I do agree that CG is getting disappointingly spotty).

Still, I can see the logic to the argument that DDP might be applying some downward pressure. I trust that if that is the case, market forces will once again have their way.

 

[profdsny]

Not speaking about the plan, but this past week, and weekend, we were able to get pretty much all the reservations for any times we wanted. Melrose, R&C, Artist Point, O'hana, etc. As it was, at MK Sunday there was a sign listing availability at every dining places but the castle. So I don't see that has really having any impact.

 

[BlindTyldak]

I've been there both before they offered DPs and during two different incarnations of dining (used both) and have never had a problem getting a walk-in (as long as you're not trying to get in at peak time, but hey, we have that same problem at our local applebees, that's not just Disney), nor have I found the quality of the food to suffer. The selection, yes, but only at my favorite restaurant.

 

[ElizabethB]

In my opinion, Disney has to compete with the real competitor they have in the family market. And, no, it's not Universal. It's the cruise lines. Many people, me included, like the fact that, on a cruise, we can go with a family group and most of it is pre-paid. After doing what we want through the day, we can sit down in the evening and have a nice several course meal. None of us has to worry about how much we're eating or spending, how much others are eating or spending or how we're going to split the bill fairly at the end.

A cruise is a great family vacation and Disney realized that. First, they built their own ships. Next, they started Grand Gatherings (or whatever the name is) to encourage family groups to come to WDW instead of booking a cruise. Finally, they introduced a dining plan somewhat comparable (though not completely) to the pre-paid food on a cruise.

To me, this is all part of a strategic thrust to ensure that WDW stays competitive with family cruise lines, like Royal Caribbean, which offer a product that is more appealing to some, especially, IMO, teenagers. My nephew and his friend, given a choice, would select a cruise over WDW any day.

An added bonus for Disney of the DDP (something of a stroke of genius by marketing, actually!) is that it keeps guests on site (since they have to be on site to eat!). Thus, they spend more on their room, buy more souvenirs on site and buy more park days. They spend less, or no, time at Universal, Sea World and the like. It's the behemoth crushing the other Orlando family fun options.

If I were planning a trip with family, I would absolutely buy the DDP for precisely the reason others do -- so we could pre-pay for meals and enjoy a nice dinner each day without having to worry about who's eating what, splitting the bill, etc. Plus, Dad (a depression-era child) won't eat anything in a restaurant, generally. However, if he knows I've already pre-paid, and he can have what he wants, he'll eat. And, that counts for a lot with me. So, I would definitely do DDP with family. The fact that menus have been streamlined and tasty items eliminated wouldn't matter. I'd want the family to have okay food and plenty of it -- just like we get on a mass market cruise.

But (there is always a but!), there is a trade-off, IMO. And, that trade-off is the things DH and I go to WDW on our own for. We went to WDW when we were young newlyweds, but we tired of it pretty quickly because, as others have said, the food in the '80s was pretty much inedible. We ate off-site because we couldn't get a good meal in WDW.

Imagine our surprise when, on a lark, we returned in the late '90s. We found all these wonderful, creative, themed and varied restaurants, some with unique and well-chosen wine lists as well. Plus, all kinds of great themed lounges, where we could have a fun drink and some appetizers. We thought we'd died and gone to heaven! Then, they added the Epcot Food & Wine Festival and, well, we had a new favorite place to vacation -- as a couple.

WDW encouraged this with their upscale dining, some 350 sommeliers, chefs who were given great leeway to be creative and so forth. WDW also started a real moneymaker with Magical Honeymoons (or whatever they are called). Finally, WDW was a destination for couples without the kids.

Since then, however, the delights we experienced have been dimmed by the DPP -- most of the restaurants (other than the 2TS places) are booked solid months in advance and are jam-packed. Neither is conducive to a free-spirited, no kids, romantic getaway. There seems to be an overall streamlining of menus and liquor -- to enable better purchasing prices and more profits for restaurants doing DDP. Fine, but we don't want to see the same entrees and wines at every restaurant. As another DisMember said in a different thread on another topic, "I can get Kendall Jackson wines in my local 7-11." What's the point of drinking it at WDW where we expect that Disney's size and purchasing power and worldwide reach mean they can get foods and wines we'll never find anywhere else, unless we travel to Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.

The sometimes wonderful, sometimes wierd, surprises are rare now. Maya Grill, for example, used to offer a truly unique Nuevo Latino cuisine -- including things like Peruvian corn imported from Peru! No longer -- it's just steaks and chops.

Attention from CMs in the World Showcase restaurants -- once a delight and pleasure and a great addition to the reason to even go to Epcot, is now basically nil due to the fact that the CMs are running constantly trying to serve every body every course.

The signature restaurants generally are still nice (other than Jiko anytime AKL is full and CG anytime fireworks might be happening in the next four hours), but signature restaurants are expensive. And, we certainly can't afford V&A every night! However, they are really the only remaining options for a romantic meal with some quiet and some style, IMO. When DH and I visit WDW alone, we always splurge on a deluxe or a one-bedroom villa booked through CRO. We stay 10 days to 2 weeks. We buy AP's. We spend freely in the restaurants buying appetizers, main courses, desserts, drinks and full bottles of wine! Certainly, couples on a splurge have been a nice source of income for WDW, which I think they are in danger of losing.

So, there you have it, IMO. The good and the bad of DDP. WDW has made its choice -- shoot for the mass market family business. Leave the upscale intimate and romantic vacation experience to be supplied by other travel companies. As a result, DH and I are seriously considering a very upscale, luxury European cruise for our next "couple" vacation.

We'll still go to WDW, but with the family -- not when we want a romantic escape.

 

[dizfanz]

ElizabethB, I have been saying what you phrased much more eloquently in the second half of your post. Yes, Disney is appealing to the masses with the DDP. They are a big corporation and that decision is no surprise. What I want others to understand is that Disney appealed to this niche market back in the 1990's under Eisner's supervision. He expanded the resorts and restaurants. He wanted to add unique cuisine and above average wine offerings. WDW has a huge number of sommeliers and they train new ones constantly. It just hurts to tease us with these offerings a decade ago and see these luxuries slipping away. Understandably, it is a business decision. THey are appealing to the masses in the wake of hurricane season. One just hopes that the standardization does not go too far.

 

[Lewisc]

Guests who prefer the "old" signature restaurants still have 3 restaurants in the S/D, Bistro De Paris,V&A and some of the DTD restaurants. Disney could always drop one or two signature restaurants from the dining plan if they're losing too many customers to those restaurants.

 

[dizfanz]

I just read my weekly newsletter from Allears. The feature article discussed the DDP. It noted the value was very good of course and the writer stayed on the DDP and then went back to the restaurants without the plan. She said the level of service did not change. She noted the difficulty of getting into restaurants like one could in the past since many are making ADRs so far out. She also noted that distinct menu items are disappearing in exchange for "meat and potatoes" plates.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Great posts dizfanz, very clear, IMO.

 

[k5thbeatle]

...Certainly, couples on a splurge have been a nice source of income for WDW, which I think they are in danger of losing...

Good point (and throughout the post )! I also remember how bad the Disney food was at one time. Terrible. I am just worried in that it seems as if the DDP is taking them back to that era of poor food AND poor service.

Listen, not every restaurant need be a 4 or 5 star dining experience. That's not what I am saying at all! Just keep a few of these around that are stand out dining experiences...both food and service wise, that's all!

As a waiter/waitress what is my incentive to do better if a gratuity is included (as it is in DDP)? Indeed what is the incentive to have a better all around restaurant?

Obviously it's what they want right now and it does keep people at home so to speak. But if quality suffers that will backfire too!

By the way dizfanz, excellent post!

#211

...
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.




Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Indy
Posts: 235 ElizabethB, I have been saying what you phrased much more eloquently in the second half of your post. Yes, Disney is appealing to the masses with the DDP. They are a big corporation and that decision is no surprise. What I want others to understand is that Disney appealed to this niche market back in the 1990's under Eisner's supervision. He expanded the resorts and restaurants. He wanted to add unique cuisine and above average wine offerings. WDW has a huge number of sommeliers and they train new ones constantly. It just hurts to tease us with these offerings a decade ago and see these luxuries slipping away. Understandably, it is a business decision. THey are appealing to the masses in the wake of hurricane season. One just hopes that the standardization does not go too far....

 

[CPer'sMom]

we returned in the late '90s. We found all these wonderful, creative, themed and varied restaurants, some with unique and well-chosen wine lists as well. Plus, all kinds of great themed lounges, where we could have a fun drink and some appetizers.

This is precisely what we now miss. I would guess that some (many?) of those who embrace the DDP did not ever have the chance to visit these restaurants ~ maybe because they didn't visit WDW, maybe because they simply chose not to dine at some of the unique restaurants, whatever ...
So truly, they don't know what's now missing from the World.

Attention from CMs in the World Showcase restaurants -- once a delight and pleasure and a great addition to the reason to even go to Epcot, is now basically nil due to the fact that the CMs are running constantly trying to serve every body every course.

Again, so true.

I hope that soon Disney will step back and evalute what they are doing in regards to trying to 'standardize' all their restaurants. Especially in the Epcot TS restaurants they are in danger of losing the individual country's uniqueness. That's why they showcase the various countries ~ to give one a "feel" (albeit a small glance) of what that country is about & the food of a country is part of that.

They need to find a balance between what "was" and what "is".

 

[Disney8704]

I havent read many of the posts since my last post cuz I've been sick for the past 2 days, still sick infact, so excuese me if someone posted something similiar like this. But anyways, in my honest opinion, the free dining plan isnt even free. If you book your vacation through AAA its one or the other. Free dining or discounted room rates. If you get the free dining, well you are still paying the full room rate. If you did the free dining, which in a way still turns out to be cheaper, because I would saving around $720. If I didnt do the free dining and did the AAA discount, like for my room I would be saving between $300 and $400. So if you did the free dining, well you could actually consider that extra money you are spending on your full room rate, is actually going towards the free dining plan. This is how disney is still getting ahead of the game here. So in a way Disney isnt even loosing much of anything. They still get that last penny out of you. Rather it be free dining and paying the full room rate or paying the dining and getting your room discount.

 

[headoflife]

I have read all of the posts on this thread and find many I agree with, as well as many I do not. I also remember WDW in the 80's with really generally dreadful food and WDW in the 90's with great food. The problem for me was that I was in no financial position to enjoy all the great cuisine in the 90's! I was limited to 1 or 2 good meals and a vacation filled with CS and off site chain restaurants. DDP and ME have been my incentive to stay on site and I am lovong the nealy all-inclusive nature of my trips. Disney has our family "hostage" but it has made it an afforable, easy and fairly woory free vacation. I tend to be the type to worry about money and therefore scrimp and order in restaurants based on cost not based on what I want. With DDP I can have what I like, not what I can convince myself to eat. I would love it if TS resutaurants would set aside a small percentage of table for wak ins but I do understand that this is not in their best interest. I have ADRs made, but I hate to try and plan this far ahead, but I am willing to do it. As to menu standardization I would love it if restaurants offered a broader range of choices. I would be more than willing to pay an upcharge to order an item if it was something I wanted. After all a few dollars, even to a frugal person like me, is not a big deal. I would love the same option (pay an upchage) if my DD8 wanted to order from the adult menu at a TS or CS. Unfortunately I think blaming the standardization on the DDP is false. It may be responsible for the use of less expensive ingredients, but standardization is occuring all over WDW. Do any of you remember when WDW offered unique items at all the shops on Main Street? I loved browsing the stores, and knew that if a found somethin I should probably get it, because I may not see it anywhere else. Now it is the same stuff in every shop all over the World. Stocking fewer items, food or merchandise, is simply cheaper.

 

[bicker]

In my opinion, Disney has to compete with the real competitor they have in the family market. And, no, it's not Universal. It's the cruise lines.

Actually, I think Las Vegas is probably as significant of a competitor, if not more so, than the cruise lines. In addition, the all-inclusive resorts (Beaches, Sandals, etc.) are also competitors of note. And while not exactly all at the same level of "pre-paid"-edness, they all are definitely trying to attract guests by "including" more.

It's interesting because just a couple of years ago, there was a very strong trend in consumer pricing away from "including" -- towards more a la carte pricing. Indeed, the cruise lines were engaging in some of that, some even starting to charge for soft drinks at dinner. This was principally in reaction to the very poor economy after 9/11. It seems that now, with the economy somewhat recovered, or at least more fully adjusted to the new reality, the trend may be working in the other direction.

Strange how this goes back and forth, and I wouldn't be surprised if, in different sub-sectors, we could be seeing these opposing trends operating at the same time.

An added bonus for Disney of the DDP (something of a stroke of genius by marketing, actually!) is that it keeps guests on site (since they have to be on site to eat!).

I'm sorry, but I cannot believe that this isn't the primary and overriding intention of the Dining Plan, and what you've suggested (the "all-inclusiveness") is just the "added bonus".

 

[Lizzy2]

So, there you have it, IMO. The good and the bad of DDP. WDW has made its choice -- shoot for the mass market family business. Leave the upscale intimate and romantic vacation experience to be supplied by other travel companies. As a result, DH and I are seriously considering a very upscale, luxury European cruise for our next "couple" vacation.

We'll still go to WDW, but with the family -- not when we want a romantic escape.

Thanks, Elizabeth, for a great explanation of what exactly the problem is. And thanks also for saying it without blaming anyone except WDW and putting it in context as a business decision. Very well said! You rock~~