Anybody else want DDP to end!!

[bicker]

Oh, I did misunderstand...I still don't find it disingenuous though because there ARE folks who believe Boma (for example) is the epitome of fine dining.

I don't believe that's the case. Give them a chance to explain themselves and they'll acknowledge that they don't care about culinary artistry, but rather have some other criteria on which they determine what is their "favorite" dining experience. I bet every one of them would readily grant that Boma is not the "epitome of fine dining" given an industry-recognized definition of fine dining. They're using hyperbole to point out that the peculiarities of "fine dining" don't matter to them.

My point is what if Disney decides to cater to the Boma loving format? There very well may be statistical information available to Disney to entice them to decide that they no longer wish to entertain fine dining (the hassle of paying chef's, professional staff, high end food supplies) and simply provide simplier fare while allowing outside vendors to cater to the upscale, rich, foodies, locals, etc.

Disney is large enough to have an array of offerings. There are some offerings for which, even at a place as large as WDW, there is insufficient demand to justify having a venue. Are you asking, "Could there come a day when so few people care about the peculiarities of 'fine dining' that there is inadequate justification to support having a fine dining restaurant?" Yes, surely that could happen. Similarly, there could come a day when so few people enjoy roller coasters that there would be inadequate justification to continue to operate Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, Expedition Everest and Rock 'n' Roller Caster. Yes, it surely could happen.

Will it? Probably not.

However, there are some things, which are offered now, which I could readily see demand changing so radically that they're no longer offered. Illuminations and Wishes cruises, the Richard Petty Driving Experience, and even mini-golf, for example. In the food realm, remember a time before they had the candied nut carts and the smoked turkey legs? Both are still very popular, but things could change. I could see either or both of those vanished from the parks, in our lifetimes, following in the wake of beaver claws.

 

[CPer'sMom]

To those thinking the only way they can experience the signature restaurants is a program like this, I understand your point but sadly you are not experiencing the signature restaurants as they were before, only a watered down version (this doesn't mean great dining experiences aren't to be had, they can be but the choices and quality of those choices available is no longer anywhere near what it once was).

but there is little doubt that the quality of these restaurants is and will continue to be affected.

This is exactly the problem I have with the "free" DDP ~ The DDP in and of itself is not the problem. That's always been available in one form or another for people willing to pay for it. It's the "free" part of it that is the problem.

I have always made ADR's (PSs) ahead of time since I'm an obsessive planner and do those as far ahead as possible. So I'm not at all concerned with not being able to eat at a particular restaurant because I can't get in.

What I don't like is the fact that the *signature* restaurants, the (IMO) best restaurants, simply are not the quality they used to be ~ These restaurants have never lacked for patrons, but they also were never "packed" like they are at times now. Yes, I know that's Disney's fault for allowing more ADRs than they probably should .... a direct result of the free dining program.
Obviously with 'too many' diners the service is not going to be the same. Part of going to a *signature* restaurant is having the entire dining experience, not just eating all you can & then leaving. The only WDW restaurant I've found that still keeps that total experience is California Grill. It's still possible there to enjoy your meal with top-notch service and not feel rushed. At least that was still the case as of a week ago.

Obiviously the menu selections and quality is also affected by the free dining.
When someone is paying $75-$100 per person for dinner you expect (and deserve) a good selection and high quality. After all, that's why you choose to go to a *signature* restaurant. With the free dining I would bet that many people are choosing to go to the 'nicer' restaurants by looking at the menus & picking the highest priced ones to get "their money's worth".
Now, I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's going to impact the restaurant's offerings and quality. Why do you think they've taken lobster off the menus in many places?

For those of you who like and take advantage of the free DDP - That's great. It's offered, so why not?

I just hope that Disney limits this offering to short periods during the year and does NOT extend it further. I also hope that, during the times of the year without "free" dining, the restaurants are able to go back to the selection and quality that have made them favorites of many over the years.
That way I can continue to plan my trips during those months of the year.

I could see either or both of those vanished from the parks, in our lifetimes, following in the wake of beaver claws.

Beaver tails?

 

[Lewisc]

I think FREE dining is a red herring. Restaurants get paid the same if the guest paid for dining or got it free. Disney is offering free dining as an alternative to room discounts that were offered during that time period.

MYW Dining is popular. Currently exclusions and up charges aren't allowed. Restaurants are learning to develop portion sizes and menu items that can profitably be served for the $20-$25 that the plan pays them. I wonder how long before some restaurants just offer soup or salad for an appetizer.

I just hope that Disney limits this offering to short periods during the year and does NOT extend it further. I also hope that, during the times of the year without "free" dining, the restaurants are able to go back to the selection and quality that have made them favorites of many over the years.
That way I can continue to plan my trips during those months of the year.

 

[JoiseyMom]

I have never had to plan where we eat before until now. I feel like second class citizens when I call to do an ADR and am asked right off if I am on the dining plan. NO I am not. I save and save to go to these places for dinner and I like that you can walk into MGM in the am and walk up to 50's Primetime and get a priority seating or call the night before. I don't like having to call 3 months before. I don't know where I am going day to day. Dining plan is fine, free dining plan is ruining it for everyone. Even those who have paid for the dining plan. I have also heard that the meals are smaller now and sharing if frowned upon. We always use to share because if we didn't they wouldn't sell a dessert.

So bottom like for me No I don't like the Free, if you wanna pay for it Okay.

The free dining plan isn't hurting anything. The plan is just another discount. Disney is using it to fill rooms, and it worked so well last year they are doing it this year. And some people liked it so much "free" that they are now paying for it. Even if the plan wasn't free, these issues of sharing would still be coming up. So, lets say they didn't have free dining this year, but instead gave us the amount dining would have cost as a discount on a room. I would have then "bought" the dining plan. It is all semantics. It isn't "free" it is just the latest discount.

This is a very popular dining plan because it is inexpensive, expecially if you have children under 10, and want to do buffets or TS, and weren't able too. This puts it into more peoples budget. This works at great for Disney. They have more people booking rooms onsite because they have to have an onsite room to get the DDP. So, since alot of these people are booking more value resort rooms, instead of staying offsite, is that a problem for the people that always booked values and now can't get in??

You can put any kind of spin on it that you want, and not everyone is going to be happy. I really like the ddp, and I booked our vacation last year and this year, because the price of the packages was great and worth it for us.

The DDP free or not is making it harder to get TS reservations.

What they should do is not allow any ADR's, and just allow walk ups. That solves everyone's problem of where they want to eat. Now everyone will be on an equal playing field.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

What they should do is not allow any ADR's, and just allow walk ups. That solves everyone's problem of where they want to eat. Now everyone will be on an equal playing field.

It used to be this way at the Blue Bayou in DL. You couldn't ever call for ressies, you had to actually walk up to the podium and wait for a table or make ressies for later. Great restaurant, BTW. I was disappoint MK didn't have one, as well.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I just hope that Disney limits this offering to short periods during the year and does NOT extend it further. I also hope that, during the times of the year without "free" dining, the restaurants are able to go back to the selection and quality that have made them favorites of many over the years.
That way I can continue to plan my trips during those months of the year.

How would this be fair to those that are paying for the dining plan during the free dining period?

Anyone using points to stay in a DVC resort has to pay for the plan. Anyone staying in the All Star Music family suites can't book free dining.

Anyone using a room discount (AAA or email code) has to pay for the dining plan.

 

[dizfanz]

I agree with OP and others. I think menus at restaurants should have a DDP icon next to items that could be ordered on the plan. Or just keep a sperate menu for DDP diners. These items could be more cost effective so restaurants do not lose out on profits. Fortunately, I dine at the restaurants that do not take the plan or are not likely to change their menu b/c of it.(unlike the Olivia fans out there. I hear they are not so happy these days.)

 

[02bBarbie]

The DDP free or not is making it harder to get TS reservations.

This is just not true

Last year I was at WDW right before the free dining started and stayed for a few days after.

The days before the free dining kicked in it was no problem getting in at any TS restaurants

After the free dining kicked it, it became much, much harder

I expect it to be the same way this year

 

[CPer'sMom]

I agree with OP and others. I think menus at restaurants should have a DDP icon next to items that could be ordered on the plan. Or just keep a sperate menu for DDP diners. These items could be more cost effective so restaurants do not lose out on profits. Fortunately, I dine at the restaurants that do not take the plan or are not likely to change their menu b/c of it.(unlike the Olivia fans out there. I hear they are not so happy these days.)

I like your idea of a limited menu for DDP ~ although I'm sure those with the DDP won't!

Which restaurants do you dine at that don't take the DDP? In looking at the list, it seems that almost all the restaurants now are included on the 'participating' list.

How would this be fair to those that are paying for the dining plan during the free dining period?

I'm not sure I understand the question ~~ What I said was that I hope the free DDP is limited to only certain months of the year and not extended.
And what's "not fair" about the restaurants being able to go back to their more varied menu? If you are paying for the DDP and can choose from the entire menu, then you're getting a pretty good deal

Actually, what I see as "not being fair" is the fact that the paying-out-of-pocket guests at the restaurants are getting limited selection and lesser quality because of those on the DDP.

 

[bicker]

This is exactly the problem I have with the "free" DDP ~ The DDP in and of itself is not the problem. That's always been available in one form or another for people willing to pay for it. It's the "free" part of it that is the problem.

I agree with Lewis. The "free" Dining Plan isn't free, and so it being free isn't the issue. For the vast majority of the year it isn't free, and these changes we're talking about apply then too.

Rather, the Dining Plan, in general, is simply more affordable now, as compared to all previous dining plan-type offerings.

Obviously with 'too many' diners the service is not going to be the same.

This is not necessarily the case. Service, specifically, varies mostly based on the available labor pool, which right now, incidently, is practically non-existent in Orlando.

The only WDW restaurant I've found that still keeps that total experience is California Grill.

That just goes to show how opinions vary, since California Grill is one of the only signature restaurants that I feel never offered "that total experience." By contrast, I feel that both Brown Derby and Artist Point, the other two signature restaurants I've eaten at most recently, have maintained "that total experience".

When someone is paying $75-$100 per person for dinner you expect (and deserve) a good selection and high quality.

Without disputing your statement, absolute dollar amounts are irrelelvant. Everything is relative, and with WDW restaurants you always have been, and always will be, paying a premium for the location.

With the free dining I would bet that many people are choosing to go to the 'nicer' restaurants by looking at the menus & picking the highest priced ones to get "their money's worth".

Then the will not be choosing signature restaurants, since this provide the worst dollar-per-credit return.

Why do you think they've taken lobster off the menus in many places?

As far as I am aware, none of the signature restaurants have taken higher cost items off the menu because of the Dining Plan. Only the non-signature restaurants have done that.

I just hope that Disney limits this offering to short periods during the year and does NOT extend it further. I also hope that, during the times of the year without "free" dining, the restaurants are able to go back to the selection and quality that have made them favorites of many over the years.

There is no reason to think that any of that is the case. Many of these changes occurred after free dining ended last year.

 

[Luv2Roam]

Agree, if there were menus with specific DDP choices there would be complaints, and we would read all about it here. Debates would start and sides would be taken.
And from what I have noticed from a guest perspective is what brings numerous complaints is eliminated or drastically revamped -- whether it be what the majority wants or not.
I would guess rarely do guests gush to Disney about how great the choices, DDP, etc, is. But if someone is unhappy, Disney probably hears about it.
Say if even 5% complain, and 95% don't, all they hear are the complaints which far out number the kudos. Gives a warped persepctive. But I am guessing it happens a lot in many areas, including non Disney businesses.

 

[bicker]

I like your idea of a limited menu for DDP ~ although I'm sure those with the DDP won't!

Not only that, but there are clear indications that that would tend to depress the value of the Dining Plan in the minds of purchasers, and so would be a lose-lose proposition for Disney.

Which restaurants do you dine at that don't take the DDP? In looking at the list, it seems that almost all the restaurants now are included on the 'participating' list.

Bistro de Paris does not take the Dining Plan. Neither do any restaurants at the Swan and Dolphin. Rainforest Cafe (blech) also is non-participating. At DTD, some participate and some don't.

And what's "not fair" about the restaurants being able to go back to their more varied menu?

Since Dining Plan guests are promised that they can order anything on the menu, changing the menu just for hurricane season to deliberately punish "free" Dining Plan patrons would be frivilously punitive.

 

[bicker]

Say if even 5% complain, and 95% don't, all they hear are the complaints which far out number the kudos. Gives a warped persepctive. But I am guessing it happens a lot in many areas, including non Disney businesses.

Disney is much more sophisticated than that. They don't typically make business decisions based on non-normalized data. They use surveys and polling, and track purchasing habits, and make most of the decisions based on that. As a matter of fact, that fact frustrates some guests, since they feel that Disney should react to complaints -- to squeaky wheels -- and those folks are upset that Disney often respectfully acknowledges their complaints and then takes no action on them because some greater majority of guests would disagree with the complainant.

In this case, it isn't isolated complaints that Disney would be worried about, but people feeling cheated and as a result not talking-up the Dining Plan when they get home, and not purchasing it again the next year.

 

[CPer'sMom]

Quite obviously, those who don't like the DDP are not going to change their views of the plan

and

Those who have the DDP are not going to want any changes made to the plan.

So really, no matter how the debate contines ............. it doesn't make any difference one way or the other ~~ especially when points made are either not understood or simply ignored by putting another 'spin' on it.

Service, specifically, varies mostly based on the available labor pool, which right now, incidently, is practically non-existent in Orlando.

And you know this how?

Disney's 'labor pool' and the 'Orlando' labor pool are 2 entirely different things.
Many of Disney's CMs come to Orlando specifically to work at Disney through such things as the college program. Staffing the restaurants is usually not a big problem for them.

 

[Aimeedyan]

How would this be fair to those that are paying for the dining plan during the free dining period?

Anyone using points to stay in a DVC resort has to pay for the plan. Anyone staying in the All Star Music family suites can't book free dining.

Anyone using a room discount (AAA or email code) has to pay for the dining plan.

I agree. It's quite ignorant to assume that ALL those on the dining plan during the "free dining" period are receiving it free. Though I have no doubt the majority are, the truth is that many are paying for it. We have friends that got an unexpected bonus and opted to do a last minute trip over Labor Day - guess what? Too late to book free dining but with other discounts they were able to get, they still decided it was worth it to buy the dining plan for the flexibility it provided. They booked all their meals - characters meals at that - 45 days out and got every once of them at the exact time they wanted.

Not everyone going in late August and Sept are dining "free"

 

[bicker]

Quite obviously, those who don't like the DDP are not going to change their views of the plan and Those who have the DDP are not going to want any changes made to the plan. So really, no matter how the debate contines ............. it doesn't make any difference one way or the other

I wouldn't say that. I was ineligible for the Dining Plan during our previous couple of visits. I was actually pretty shocked that they started offering it to us DVC members. Yet, my perspectives on the Dining Plan haven't really changed at all. While I agree that the judgement of some members is clouded by selfish interests. I think most members are sharing their honest, perspective on the issue. What is interesting, though, is how these discussions sway the members who have not yet reached a conclusion on the issue. Our best hope is that these discussions help that large segment to better enjoy their WDW vacation, rather than setting them up for disappointment, one way or the other.

 

[bicker]

And you know this how?

I read the Orlando Sentinal online. (Don't you?) While Disney does benefit from guest workers and the College Program, the vast majority of folks working at WDW restaurants are locals.

 

[CPer'sMom]

I think FREE dining is a red herring. Restaurants get paid the same if the guest paid for dining or got it free. Disney is offering free dining as an alternative to room discounts that were offered during that time period.

MYW Dining is popular.

FREE is the operative word ~ When something is offered to people "free" you are going to get many more people who will take the offer. That's the case with the "free" DDP and that's why there are so many guests taking advantage of it while they can. It's because it's FREE!

I don't see the plan as "free" per se since you are then paying full price
for your resort room. I honestly doubt that very many people take the time to weigh those factors into their vacation price. Not to mention the fact that many with the DDP end up with WAY too much food that they otherwise wouldn't even think of ordering.

 

[CPer'sMom]

I read the Orlando Sentinal online. (Don't you?)

Actually, no.

 

[MyGoofy26]

*haven't made it through the whole thread so ignore if this has already come up and a simple ITA would have sufficed, LOL*

I don't think the dining plan is the problem. Granted it's popular, but I think people give the "power" of the DP too much credit. I have noticed, and I'm sure others have as well, that table seating has become increasingly popular over the past few years starting well before the dining plan. Supply just isn't meeting demand, especially since most demand is IN the parks and Disney just hasn't attempted to meet that demand yet. I also noticed on our last trip with the dining plan (paid for) that most of the people around us were paying with cash or credit, not the dining plan. I'd be willing to bet that most people eating at table service restaurants are NOT on the dining plan.

As far as the standardizing of menus - Disney is a huge corporation, trying to find the best way to do things to increase their bottom line and keep investors happy. It's cheaper for Disney to buy products in bulk to be served in various forms or using various names in a number of restaurants. It's more expensive to have completely unique menus in each restaurant - on top of the price they'll pay for smaller amounts of products, there's also the cost of keeping these products stored and organized. It's much easier and cheaper to run a warehouse with 100 products as opposed to 1000 products, for example.