Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[princessmom29]

Now--without evidence--he was just a dumb jock who got tutored. Okay.

I just mentioned him because I happened to like that he played for both of my alma maters and he was homeschooled. And he is successful regardless of why.

But I see that folks clearly want only examples of where homeschool can be specifically credited with the person's success. And I have nothing for you. Because for every person that would be mentioned (i.e. the list), you would have a reason to discount any of their home education.

People wanted successful homeschoolers. I was unaware that the only success that counted was pure unadulterated academic success. That is bias.

Actually if you look back, I did not imply that at all...what I said was that he was my favorite and that he was a success.

But I didn't know you guys were looking for the Harvard academic with the perfect SAT score.

I suppose next you'll tell me that someone was taking his tests for him.

Clearly the litmus is higher for homeschoolers and everyone has their excuses why one or the other does not count.

He was famous, he was on the list, and he was my favorite for the aforementioned reasons. Nothing more, nothing less. But y'all were on it like white on rice to make excuses of why his success is without merit: He is a dumb jock and duh, they have it easy in college.

Alrighty then.

No need to get so defensive. What I am getting form the posts you are quoting is that this is a discussion about academics and people were looking for homeschoolers for whom thier homeschool academics would have played a large part in thier success. Tebow simply isn't a good example of that kind of homeschooler because his football talent got him where he is. It would not have mattered what kind of education he had gotten, he would still have gotten into Florida, played ball, and gotten a degree. The many, many homeschoolers who win academic scholarships every year to top tier universities, make perfect ACT nad SAT scores, and graduate with a bachelors at 19 or 20 and go on to have sucessful careers in thier chosen field would all be much better examples than someone who got there solely based on atheletic talent.

 

[declansdad]

People wanted successful homeschoolers. I was unaware that the only success that counted was pure unadulterated academic success. That is bias.

Tebow is successful because of football, homeschooling has nothing to do with it. (His success as a pro football player is still undecided.)

 

[knitster]

As has already been stated, the litmus for homeschoolers will always be higher and there will always be an excuse as to why such and such famous homeschooler doesn't count. If they were homeschooled before 1900 they don't count, if they are successful in sports or entertainment they don't count, but if they were only successful in academia they also would be considered failures because they were clearly not well socialized. People won't be happy until homeschooling produces an Albert Einstein. Oh wait...nope, he doesn't count either, we just haven't figured out why yet.

And I think it's pretty presumptuous to assume the amount of work Tim did or didn't do for himself in college, regardless of his status as a top tier athlete. I am friends with one of the big up and coming names in college football - taught him in VBS, his parents were my Sunday school teachers growing up, his sister and I cheered together - I know him well. But would I even pretend to assume what kind of work he does or doesn't do at OU and what kind of help he does or does not receive? Heck no! I don't have a clue and I know the guy!

 

[cornflake]

Actually if you look back, I did not imply that at all...what I said was that he was my favorite and that he was a success.

But I didn't know you guys were looking for the Harvard academic with the perfect SAT score.

I suppose next you'll tell me that someone was taking his tests for him.

Clearly the litmus is higher for homeschoolers and everyone has their excuses why one or the other does not count.

He was famous, he was on the list, and he was my favorite for the aforementioned reasons. Nothing more, nothing less. But y'all were on it like white on rice to make excuses of why his success is without merit: He is a dumb jock and duh, they have it easy in college.

Alrighty then.

We're talking about academics, hence yes, people would take 'here's a successful homeschooler' as meaning someone who has demonstrated success tied to academics in some area.

I mean if you said 'here's a list of successful homeschoolers' and one was considered successful because he won the lottery, that'd not be any endorsement of homeschooling, successful or not.

Citing someone as successful at football and thus an example of successful homeschooling seems odd.

No one said he's a dumb jock - I have no idea if he's smart or not or educated or not. I do know that I won't make an assumption as to whether he's smart or educated based on that he got in and out of a football school when he's clearly talented at football.

Athletes in athletically-minded schools can get a ton of things helped, excused, etc. Doesn't mean everyone does, means it's certainly possible, thus people aren't going to assume his success in football or that he got out of a not-superior university has to do with his academics. May have had great academics. May have not.

 

[Coconut36]

As has already been stated, the litmus for homeschoolers will always be higher and there will always be an excuse as to why such and such famous homeschooler doesn't count. If they were homeschooled before 1900 they don't count, if they are successful in sports or entertainment they don't count, but if they were only successful in academia they also would be considered failures because they were clearly not well socialized. People won't be happy until homeschooling produces an Albert Einstein. Oh wait...nope, he doesn't count either, we just haven't figured out why yet.

And I think it's pretty presumptuous to assume the amount of work Tim did or didn't do for himself in college, regardless of his status as a top tier athlete. I am friends with one of the big up and coming names in college football - taught him in VBS, his parents were my Sunday school teachers growing up, his sister and I cheered together - I know him well. But would I even pretend to assume what kind of work he does or doesn't do at OU and what kind of help he does or does not receive? Heck no! I don't have a clue and I know the guy!

And it's equally presumptuous to assume that he has acheived great academic success for all the same reasons you named. You don't know him or what kind or work he did or didn't do. What is clearly and publicly known however is that his college scholarship was athletic not academic.

ETA-You aren't trying to state Einstein was home schooled right?

 

[declansdad]

As has already been stated, the litmus for homeschoolers will always be higher and there will always be an excuse as to why such and such famous homeschooler doesn't count. If they were homeschooled before 1900 they don't count, if they are successful in sports or entertainment they don't count, but if they were only successful in academia they also would be considered failures because they were clearly not well socialized. People won't be happy until homeschooling produces an Albert Einstein. Oh wait...nope, he doesn't count either, we just haven't figured out why yet.

And I think it's pretty presumptuous to assume the amount of work Tim did or didn't do for himself in college, regardless of his status as a top tier athlete. I am friends with one of the big up and coming names in college football - taught him in VBS, his parents were my Sunday school teachers growing up, his sister and I cheered together - I know him well. But would I even pretend to assume what kind of work he does or doesn't do at OU and what kind of help he does or does not receive? Heck no! I don't have a clue and I know the guy!

Please tell me how homeschooling helps with a person's athletic career?

 

[knitster]

And it's equally presumptuous to assume that he has acheived great academic success for all the same reasons you named. You don't know him or what kind or work he did or didn't do. What is clearly and publicly known however is that his college scholarship was athletic not academic.

I never said he was an academic success, I made no assumptions on either side of the coin.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Oh sweet baby peas...this is STILL going on?

 

[bdcp]

There are intelligent football players. None of you know what his academic abilities are. Wow, there is so much prejudice against an athlete who happened to be homeschooled and lives his faith. Talk about bias.

Not all athletes have to be tutored through college. Some do, those in particular that are pulled out of inner city, schools with low academic performance solely because of their ahtletic ability. But there are also plenty who are decent and outstanding students. And, some, believe it or not decide to go to a school for their own personal reasons. Just because they don't go to an ivy league school doesn't make them any less intelligent.

The point of this entire thread was an unschooler who was extreme and has a 9 year old who can't read.

 

[sookie]

Did she teach him to play football???

tehehehehehe!!!!!

ya'll have to admit that is some funny stuff right there...

 

[knitster]

There are intelligent football players. None of you know what his academic abilities are. Wow, there is so much prejudice against an athlete who happened to be homeschooled and lives his faith. Talk about bias.

Not all athletes have to be tutored through college. Some do, those in particular that are pulled out of inner city, schools with low academic performance solely because of their ahtletic ability. But there are also plenty who are decent and outstanding students. And, some, believe it or not decide to go to a school for their own personal reasons. Just because they don't go to an ivy league school doesn't make them any less intelligent.

Exactly. I couldn't tell you how my friend who plays college ball is doing academically now, but I can tell you that he was an honors student all through high school.

 

[declansdad]

There are intelligent football players. None of you know what his academic abilities are. Wow, there is so much prejudice against an athlete who happened to be homeschooled and lives his faith. Talk about bias.

Not all athletes have to be tutored through college. Some do, those in particular that are pulled out of inner city, schools with low academic performance solely because of their ahtletic ability. But there are also plenty who are decent and outstanding students. And, some, believe it or not decide to go to a school for their own personal reasons. Just because they don't go to an ivy league school doesn't make them any less intelligent.

Is Tim Tebow a successful and famous person because he was home-schooled or because he had a successful college football career?

 

[princessmom29]

As has already been stated, the litmus for homeschoolers will always be higher and there will always be an excuse as to why such and such famous homeschooler doesn't count. If they were homeschooled before 1900 they don't count, if they are successful in sports or entertainment they don't count, but if they were only successful in academia they also would be considered failures because they were clearly not well socialized. People won't be happy until homeschooling produces an Albert Einstein. Oh wait...nope, he doesn't count either, we just haven't figured out why yet.

And I think it's pretty presumptuous to assume the amount of work Tim did or didn't do for himself in college, regardless of his status as a top tier athlete. I am friends with one of the big up and coming names in college football - taught him in VBS, his parents were my Sunday school teachers growing up, his sister and I cheered together - I know him well. But would I even pretend to assume what kind of work he does or doesn't do at OU and what kind of help he does or does not receive? Heck no! I don't have a clue and I know the guy!

I don't see anyone here saying any of that. I have seen several people saying they know some very successful homeschoolers. It seems that some are choosing not to hear that however, and simply assume everyone who says anything critcal of any homeschooler is antihomeschool.

I know what kind of resources an athelete has at their disposal becuase i was part of those resources. My point is simply that we DON'T know if Tebow was successful becuase of that access or becuase he had a great academic foundation. The fact that he had acces to massive amounts of academic help remains a fact, however.

 

[sookie]

I worked for the atheletic department of a major university. They paid me good money to tutor the football team. All of them got into and graduated from a major accredited university. The standards to get an athlete into school are beyond pitiful, and once they get there people like me are paid good money to teach them how to write a paragraph or add negative numbers so they can get out with thier business or general studies degrees. The fact that he got into and graduated from Florida via the football program DOES NOT mean his educational program was any kind of success.

Ok, in defense (a little bit)...
They give those kids LOTS of resources if they are struggling. I promise you - a lot of those kids (but not all) are actually so focused on high school ball and making it into college ball that the families and the coaches do not push the academics. There are only so many hours in the day. Because you have to spend your time practicing vs studying, passing is just fine. So slipping by is OK as long as you get the grades to play while in school.

So going to college - and a great college at that - it can be difficult for those kids if they really want to come up to standards. They might not have the best academic base going in. I don't think they are just handed passing grades in classes, however. I know attendence was a huge issue when my husband was teaching. But they are given access to tutors and helpers to HELP them understand that work with lots of one on one time.

I understand though - there are only so many hours in a day. And if you are pushing the time for sports vs. academics - and they want that - who is to say they are wrong? Get them through. Let them get a degree if they are passing the classes and let them be successful ball players. These guys may not always play ball, so helping them get a degree - I'm all for it as long as they are competent.

Some football players are gifted sportsmen and smart academically. But when you are so focused on the athletics - sometimes you just have to have someone come and break coursework down for you so you can understand it. They aren't dumb, but their efforts are focused elsewhere.

I don't know how homeschooling got Tim Tebow into college ball either. I haven't researched either but if someone can enlighten me... especially if it'll make me hate on Ms. Tebow more... I'm more than happy to listen to it! LOL

 

[princessmom29]

I understand though - there are only so many hours in a day. And if you are pushing the time for sports vs. academics - and they want that - who is to say they are wrong? Get them through. Let them get a degree if they are passing the classes and let them be successful ball players. These guys may not always play ball, so helping them get a degree - I'm all for it as long as they are competent.

but that's just it. They are NOT all compotent. They have had thier hand held throughout school, been exempted for expectations others have had to meet, and had exceptions made over and over. They simply don't have to meet the same standards as other students. They are passing BECAUSE they are ball players, not becuase they are capable. A tutor will sit with them for 3 hours, then they go directly into the professor's office to take a test. They no longer need the infromation I spent 3 hours cramming into thier head so it is gone as soon as they walk out. No one else gets to do that. Many athletes are simply NOT compotent to use the degree that they graduated with.

 

[skater]

Please tell me how homeschooling helps with a person's athletic career?

I'm not saying it does, but I can see the advantages. I have a middle schooler who is obsessed with soccer and some weeks practices all afternoon. He can do this because he is sometimes finished school by lunchtime or shortly thereafter. I don't tell him to practice - he wants to. Now, this is not why we homeschool, and I sincerely doubt (based on statistics) that he will have an "athletic career" or even get a scholarship, but he is a better athlete because he has the time. And of course, this is another advantage of homeschooling. I love how much time my kids have had to explore their own interests .

 

[Colleen27]

I don't know how homeschooling got Tim Tebow into college ball either. I haven't researched either but if someone can enlighten me...

I'm actually kind of curious about that too. Here, homeschooling is a dead-end for athletics, which is one reason we've worked so hard at making public school work for DS. He liked homeschooling when he was younger but if he was still homeschooled football would end this year for him, and he's willing to work a little harder in a school setting that isn't quite a perfect fit rather than give up playing. There are no youth/rec/club programs in the area for kids that are of age to play school ball and it is pretty common to see athletic kids transition from homeschooling or private school into the public school at the 7th/8th grade level to be able to continue in their sport.

 

[knitster]

As an aside to the current (slightly absurd) argument about Tim Tebow and his academic success or lack thereof...I have to say that I thought about this thread today and chuckled as I watched my 10 year old help my 5 year old build a double helix DNA strand out of Legos while participating in an online homeschool lego club via webcam.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that either of my kids would've learned more in public school today than they did on the floor of my sunroom with a laptop and a pile of legos.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

We unschooled our kids until they were old enough to go to school.

Seriously, though, most educational methods work for a certain type of student and educator. It's like any other way to solve a problem: a square plug does not fit a round hole. But if your child is a round plug, and you know how to use the hammer, than by all means, plug away. Our daughter learned to read before going to organized school. Because we read in front of her and to her, which made her WANT to read. She also figured out how to climb stairs and work a VCR. Unshooling works if the parent helps kindle the desire to learn; otherwise, it's just screwing around.

 

[hambirg]

Did she teach him to play football???

I just spit diet coke all over my keyboard. . .thanks!