Any thoughts on point charts for Lakeshore Lodge

[maui22]

This morning, I was looking at Disney deeds on the occompt website and started thinking about the total cost for each purchase.

Will Lakeshore Lodge have point charts higher then BRV and CCV? If so, would that hurt sales?
Or closer to BRV and CCV? They could market the bargain point charts compared to PVB? (Most expect RIV to be sold out before Lakeshore Lodge goes on sale)
Would Disney want to have higher point charts than BRV and CCV (which are closer to MK)?

What are your thoughts on point charts?
What are your thoughts on how it will impact direct sales?

 

[Hubalorian]

I think it will be a small mark up from CCV/BRV but a real premium for those lakeshore cabins they’re building.

 

[Brian Noble]

What are your thoughts on point charts?

I suspect it will depend on the size, furnishings, and appointments in the rooms. Larger rooms with more "luxe" furnishings will mean a higher point chart. The pool area looks nicer than average, which might also contribute as well, but less so.

Has anyone decoded the architectural drawings in the permit applications to get square footage yet? That would be a good hint.

What are your thoughts on how it will impact direct sales?

Disney won't have a problem selling it, whatever it is.

 

[kilik64]

RIV level or slightly less for the typical rooms. Probably around the same as the CCV cabins for the Lakeshore version of those.

 

[vdangelo239]

Would totally expect Riv level...I do not think anything lower than Riv either...that's probably what we should all expect go-forward.

 

[disneylandtour]

I suspect it will depend on the size, furnishings, and appointments in the rooms. Larger rooms with more "luxe" furnishings will mean a higher point chart. The pool area looks nicer than average, which might also contribute as well, but less so.

Has anyone decoded the architectural drawings in the permit applications to get square footage yet? That would be a good hint.


Disney won't have a problem selling it, whatever it is.

I "floated" by it last week. It is massive, a stretch of skeletal steel (and plumbing and cement) far longer than I expected. It's a C or U shaped complex with a large open space in the middle for courtyard/pool/maybe a lazy river/a stand alone building or two for restaurants, bars, etc. Mid to upper floors, on both sides, "should" have much better balcony views than CCV. I think the CCV and BRV days are all behind us in terms of new point charts. And I do suspect that if there is a big water feature we're looking at least 25%, maybe 30% above CCV in terms of points per night.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I "floated" by it last week. It is massive, a stretch of skeletal steel (and plumbing and cement) far longer than I expected. It's a C or U shaped complex with a large open space in the middle for courtyard/pool/maybe a lazy river/a stand alone building or two for restaurants, bars, etc. Mid to upper floors, on both sides, "should" have much better balcony views than CCV. I think the CCV and BRV days are all behind us in terms of new point charts. And I do suspect that if there is a big water feature we're looking at least 25%, maybe 30% above CCV in terms of points per night.

Tend to agree with this. I would not be surprised if this was PVB / VGF level points - they need to find a way to bring those CFW dues down to a reasonable level - and high points would be a very good way to do that!

 

[WinterSolider]

Would totally expect Riv level...I do not think anything lower than Riv either...that's probably what we should all expect go-forward.

This has been debunked a million times and yet every time there's a new resort, people bring it back up as a conspiracy theory.

There is no points chart inflation, other than Old Key West which is "too cheap" and should have a points chart that looks more like Saratoga Springs.

Riviera is priced high because Disney imputed a value on the Skyliner akin to that of the monorail. Newer resorts are generally priced higher than older resorts because they tend to be in more premium locations with "better" transportation options. There is no points chart inflation over time when you adjust for these factors.

I expect Lakeshore Lodge "core" units (DS/1BR/2BR) to be priced exactly the same as Copper Creek.

I "floated" by it last week. It is massive, a stretch of skeletal steel (and plumbing and cement) far longer than I expected. It's a C or U shaped complex with a large open space in the middle for courtyard/pool/maybe a lazy river/a stand alone building or two for restaurants, bars, etc. Mid to upper floors, on both sides, "should" have much better balcony views than CCV. I think the CCV and BRV days are all behind us in terms of new point charts. And I do suspect that if there is a big water feature we're looking at least 25%, maybe 30% above CCV in terms of points per night.

This is the exact logic people used when they insisted that Disneyland Hotel would have a higher points chart than Grand Cal. It never happens, just like it didn't happen with Poly 2 or VGF 2 or any other doom-and-gloom scenario that people floated.

Disney collects their "inflation" via increasing price-per-point, not increasing points-per-night. All of the breakage formulas would crash if the points charts became disconnected from the underlying cash value of these rooms.

 

[maui22]

I think Disney has been constantly learning and adjusting as they go. Here's WDW timeline. Did they increase SSR point charts after BCV success? If not, shouldn't they be same as OKW? BLT and monorail resorts definitely had increases. Is monorail really more valuable point chart wish than walking to Epcot and DHS?

• OKW 1991 - bus to all four parks, boat to DS
• BWV 1996 - walk/boat to Epcot and DHS, bus everywhere else
• BRV 2000 - boat to MK, bus to everywhere else
• BCV 2002 - walk/boat to Epcot and DHS, bus everywhere else
• SSR 2004 - walk/boat/bus to DS, bus to all four parks
• AKV 2007 - bus to everywhere, but you have your own safari.
• BLT 2009 - walk/monorail to MK, monorail to Epcot, bus everywhere else
• VGF 2013 - monorail/boat to MK (can now walk), monorail to Epcot, bus everywhere else.
• PVB 2015 - monorail (express or monorail loop)/boat/ferry to MK, monorail to Epcot, bus everywhere else. Now can technically walk to MK along GF.
• CCV 2017 - boat to MK, bus to everywhere else
• RIV 2020 - skyliner to Epcot and DHS, bus to everywhere else.
• CFW - boat to MK, bus to everywhere else (may need a golf cart or internal bus).

 

[WinterSolider]

I think Disney has been constantly learning and adjusting as they go. Here's WDW timeline. Did they increase SSR point charts after BCV success? If not, shouldn't they be same as OKW? BLT and monorail resorts definitely had increases. Is monorail really more valuable point chart wish than walking to Epcot and DHS?

• OKW 1991 - bus to all four parks, boat to DS
• BWV 1996 - walk/boat to Epcot and DHS, bus everywhere else
• BRV 2000 - boat to MK, bus to everywhere else
• BCV 2002 - walk/boat to Epcot and DHS, bus everywhere else
• SSR 2004 - walk/boat/bus to DS, bus to all four parks
• AKV 2007 - bus to everywhere, but you have your own safari.
• BLT 2009 - walk/monorail to MK, monorail to Epcot, bus everywhere else
• VGF 2013 - monorail/boat to MK (can now walk), monorail to Epcot, bus everywhere else.
• PVB 2015 - monorail (express or monorail loop)/boat/ferry to MK, monorail to Epcot, bus everywhere else. Now can technically walk to MK along GF.
• CCV 2017 - boat to MK, bus to everywhere else
• RIV 2020 - skyliner to Epcot and DHS, bus to everywhere else.
• CFW - boat to MK, bus to everywhere else (may need a golf cart or internal bus).

When you compare points costs to cash prices, Saratoga Springs doesn't belong down where Old Key West is, Old Key West belongs up where Saratoga Springs is.

And yes, for the average Walt Disney World guest, Magic Kingdom is the crown jewel and the monorail is "better" than walking to Epcot and Studios.

Also, as a side note, walking to Studios from Crescent Lake is flipping miserable 6 months out of the year.

 

[Tatebeck]

Lol they definitely tend to increase the average point cost for a room slightly over time at newer resorts. It's pretty obvious. Even if they do it sneakily by adding in new/more "view" categories (many of which do not actually have the best views and are misclassified) or making more lockoffs so members have to pay the lockoff tax when rooms are booked separately after the studios book first.

Every time someone has tried to "debunk" it, their argument hasn't been very good or they cherry pick outliers that seem like it makes their point while avoiding all the evidence that points the other way

Anyone that thinks they don't increase point charts over time, what do you think the point charts would be when BWV and BCV close in 2042 and if they are reopened and resold? If newer resorts don't increase the point charts they should be the same as they are now right? Since it is the exact same location. But I would bet a lot of money (or DVC points lol) that the point charts would be higher than they are now.

In regards to the original question. I expect that average cost of studios through normal 2br will be slightly more expensive than BRV/CCV and the specialty rooms like the cabins etc. will be on par with CCVs (since they were able to make those fairly expensive as BRV didn't have any for them to match with the CCV point chart)

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

If I were DVD and trying to make more money, I would point inflate all new resorts to stimulate more/bigger contract sales - it would not matter to me that existing owners have fewer points to spread because I already got their money. I would be chasing new and existing owners to stay at the new resorts thanks to their newest contract purchases.

So, I expect LL charts to be at least as high as the newest DVD resort additions and I expect DVD to get creative with promotional incentives and financing options (15 years?… wow) to stimulate sales that pair with the newest LL pitch from the guides.

I was at BLT last Friday and also floated by LL under construction… that place looks like it’s gonna be massive. They better let me in that lazy river with my OKW SAP at 7 months.