Any Reformed FP- Uber Users Who Have Embraced FP+ ?

[Disneylover99]

I think their second goal with the new system is to keep people in the Disney parks.

Oh, you mean returning to the same park day after day on your vacation to accomplish what you could have done in one day when legacy was around. If that is what you meant, then I totally agree.

 

[Laketravis]

Oh, you mean returning to the same park day after day on your vacation to accomplish what you could have done in one day when legacy was around. If that is what you meant, then I totally agree.

That is definitely their objective - to keep all guests captive for the duration of their stay and to extend that stay for as long as possible. Via the combination of all distinct efforts over the last few years, I don't know that it is totally working for them. For instance, last week we went to Orlando and never stepped foot in WDW. That's the first time that has happened in my over 40 years of going to Orlando.

In March, I'll be back for two weeks but won't be staying onsite and will most likely only spend a few days at WDW. And in June, another two to three weeks offsite and perhaps even less time in WDW. We are simply finding and enjoying several other options. If it had not been for the numerous changes at WDW over the last few years, we would probably blindly and exclusively continue to spend our recreational dollars at WDW.

So at least in our case, that strategy has backfired big time.

 

[whiporee]

If it had not been for the numerous changes at WDW over the last few years, we would probably blindly and exclusively continue to spend our recreational dollars at WDW.

But probably not. The issue isn't the system, it's the numbers. Disney wants to increase the number of people through the gates at $100 a pop. All of this is to be able to continue to increase that number without customer revolt, and customer revolt probably doesn't happen for a long, long time.

FP+ guarantees you three headliners in a day. Right now Disney is setting those as the reasonable expectation for a visit to the park -- you'll get three headliners at no wait and maybe four other non-headliners at some wait, and a couple of other rides at a minimal wait. Disney has said most people's expectations are nine rides in a day, and FP+ helps them get there with more people in the gates.

As a longtime but relocated Orlandoan, I'm amazed at how crowded the place gets now. Just astounded. Before any kind of fast pass, a 90-minute wait for SM was a crazy long wait in mid July. Now it's a norm in early December, when there used to be NOBODY at the park. They just keep putting more and more people in -- the resorts give more and more people the opportunity to easily and relatively cheaply go -- and I think they feel that FP+'s reservation system for the headliners give them their only chance to increase capacity at the same time making sure people get the bare minimum they need to be satisfied.

 

[Love Tink]

FP+ guarantees you three headliners in a day. Right now Disney is setting those as the reasonable expectation for a visit to the park -- you'll get three headliners at no wait and maybe four other non-headliners at some wait, and a couple of other rides at a minimal wait. Disney has said most people's expectations are nine rides in a day, and FP+ helps them get there with more people in the gates.

As a longtime but relocated Orlandoan, I'm amazed at how crowded the place gets now. Just astounded. Before any kind of fast pass, a 90-minute wait for SM was a crazy long wait in mid July. Now it's a norm in early December, when there used to be NOBODY at the park. They just keep putting more and more people in -- the resorts give more and more people the opportunity to easily and relatively cheaply go -- and I think they feel that FP+'s reservation system for the headliners give them their only chance to increase capacity at the same time making sure people get the bare minimum they need to be satisfied.

Unfortunately, it doesn't even guarantee that. At two of the parks, which have tiering, you can only reserve one headliner.

 

[jade1]

Oh, absolutely - there's no better way to increase park capacity (and thus ticket sales) than to be able to fit more people in the parks each day by reducing the amount of time they spend in the park.

And like you indicated earlier, not only does it take pressure off the parks but the infrastructure that supports it as well. Buses, boats, monorails, resort venues, etc.

Churn, baby, Churn!!

Here is MK on Dec 31 and on Dec 25.

XMAS Day

 

[Laketravis]

Here is MK on Dec 31 and on Dec 25.

Looks just like the conditions I posted pictures of during and on Thanksgiving (examples below taken at close to the same time in the afternoon as yours except on Thanksgiving).

It can have an unsettling (some might say confusing) effect when the SB line for Spaceship Earth or IASM is 45 minutes. Hard to draw a subconscious connection.

 

[Silock]

Not really sure what the pictures are trying to show, other than everyone is already inside the park. Am I missing something?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Not really sure what the pictures are trying to show, other than everyone is already inside the park. Am I missing something?

I'm wondering the same...according to this article, MK was at capacity by 10am on New Year's Eve...so it's not really surprising that there aren't many people going through security/tapstiles at 1pm. I know MK opened up again later that day, but I don't think that was as early as 1pm.

I don't know what phase closure they were at at 10am, but doesn't the first phase include shutting down the parking lot? That alone would definitely limit the number of people entering...

 

[Laketravis]

I'm wondering the same...according to this article, MK was at capacity by 10am on New Year's Eve...so it's not really surprising that there aren't many people going through security/tapstiles at 1pm. I know MK opened up again later that day, but I don't think that was as early as 1pm.

I don't know what phase closure they were at at 10am, but doesn't the first phase include shutting down the parking lot? That alone would definitely limit the number of people entering...

In my case, I found it interesting because it was the first time in four years that I've ever seen half the admittance queues closed and virtually no lines at the remaining admittance queues on a Thanksgiving day in the middle of the afternoon.

Does that mean all the people who were going to MK for the day were already in the park by 1pm? I don't think so, because inside the park didn't "feel" as crowded as in the past based on the number of people walking around. Yet standby line times were what you would expect them to be for a Thanksgiving day.

I think that what I observed and what Jade is trying to point out is that everyone could be on attractions using their FP's or waiting in SB lines, plus the fact that guest turnover in the parks has increased while being more evenly distributed during park hours - with the visible net effect shown.

I also think that FP+ has the effect of putting people onto the previously underutilized attractions that they normally wouldn't engage, thus getting them out of the public areas and into queues/attractions.

 

[tweak89]

Well, we (or rather I, since I did all the running) fall into the uber FP- user camp. That coupled with the incredible Universal Express Pass use from our last two trips there (that have spoiled us for never waiting in line), we are certainly nervous about FP+ (our last visit to WDW was the year before its implementation). We even utilize the "fast pass" system at Six Flag parks (so line waiting is not big with us!! )

But, I plan to make the best of our 60 day window and just see what happens. I've got about a week and a half to the opening of our reservation window, so I'm reading anything and everything.

 

[Angel Ariel]

In my case, I found it interesting because it was the first time in four years that I've ever seen half the admittance queues closed and virtually no lines at the remaining admittance queues on a Thanksgiving day in the middle of the afternoon.

Does that mean all the people who were going to MK for the day were already in the park by 1pm? I don't think so, because inside the park didn't "feel" as crowded as in the past based on the number of people walking around. Yet standby line times were what you would expect them to be for a Thanksgiving day.

I think that what I observed and what Jade is trying to point out is that everyone could be on attractions using their FP's or waiting in SB lines, plus the fact that guest turnover in the parks has increased while being more evenly distributed during park hours - with the visible net effect shown.

I also think that FP+ has the effect of putting people onto the previously underutilized attractions that they normally wouldn't engage, thus getting them out of the public areas and into queues/attractions.

I should have been more clear..

I do understand that discussion - what doesn't make sense to me is using a day that MK closed for capacity a few hours prior to the picture being taken. It seems to me that whether or not capacity is being evenly distributed during park hours is....for lack of a better word cancelled out because the park is at capacity. And considering MK did open up again later on NYE (read a report of that somewhere), then doesn't that pretty clearly show that crowds were not evenly distributed that day?

Why would there be lines outside a park that's been closed to many guests(I realize not all, but many), with a total parking lot closure, for a few hours?

 

[Laketravis]

I should have been more clear..

I do understand that discussion - what doesn't make sense to me is using a day that MK closed for capacity a few hours prior to the picture being taken. It seems to me that whether or not capacity is being evenly distributed during park hours is....for lack of a better word cancelled out because the park is at capacity. And considering MK did open up again later on NYE (read a report of that somewhere), then doesn't that pretty clearly show that crowds were not evenly distributed that day?

Why would there be lines outside a park that's been closed to many guests(I realize not all, but many), with a total parking lot closure, for a few hours?

Oh, okay - you're referring to Jade's pictures from 12/25 and 12/31, correct?

MK didn't close due to capacity on Thanksgiving day, but I can't recall what happened on 12/25 and 12/31. If the park was or recently closed due to capacity when those pictures were taken, it would certainly cloud any speculation as to other reasons why it looks empty.

 

[Laketravis]

Well, we (or rather I, since I did all the running) fall into the uber FP- user camp. That coupled with the incredible Universal Express Pass use from our last two trips there (that have spoiled us for never waiting in line), we are certainly nervous about FP+ (our last visit to WDW was the year before its implementation). We even utilize the "fast pass" system at Six Flag parks (so line waiting is not big with us!! )

But, I plan to make the best of our 60 day window and just see what happens. I've got about a week and a half to the opening of our reservation window, so I'm reading anything and everything.

Sounds like you are going in late March or so? I'm very curious as to what your impressions will be.

We do Six Flags but never pay for Flash Pass; we thought Express Pass was a MUCH better implementation of queue bypass than FP+, and we've found FP+ to be great for the three you get each day but beyond that has worsened conditions for everything else once you've used up your three.

So by all means please let us know how it works out for you!

 

[Angel Ariel]

Oh, okay - you're referring to Jade's pictures from 12/25 and 12/31, correct?

MK didn't close due to capacity on Thanksgiving day, but I can't recall what happened on 12/25 and 12/31. If the park was or recently closed due to capacity when those pictures were taken, it would certainly cloud any speculation as to other reasons why it looks empty.

I was..I posted a link in my 1st post from today where a local orlando news station had an article saying that MK had closed to capacity at 10am. I'm sure that was the first closing phase, not closed to absolutely everyone, but I'm pretty sure they shut down the MK parking lot at that phase, which just on its own would limit how many people were coming to even try to get into MK.

I saw reports that MK did fully open later that day, but IIRC it wasn't until around 4 or 5pm.

ETA: Here's the source for the 10am closing on NYE. The source in ETA1a states that MK actually closed at Phase A at 9:25am.

ETA1a: on NYE, MK entered Phase B closing at 1:45pm. Parks reopened after 5pm Source

ETA2: MK was also at phase A closing on Christmas Day starting at 10:30am, and didn't reopen until after 3pm. Source

 

[Disneylover99]

Oh, okay - you're referring to Jade's pictures from 12/25 and 12/31, correct?

MK didn't close due to capacity on Thanksgiving day, but I can't recall what happened on 12/25 and 12/31. If the park was or recently closed due to capacity when those pictures were taken, it would certainly cloud any speculation as to other reasons why it looks empty.

I believe MK was in it's first phase of closing during Jade's pictures on Christmas Day. We were riding the train around the park during this time on Christmas Day and it was quite strange to see just a very few people in front of the park.

On these very crowded holidays, I don't really think there is any such thing as equal crowd distribution because of fp+. Everyone just knows to get there early or risk getting shut out, know matter what time their first FP ride is at.

 

[Laketravis]

I believe MK was in it's first phase of closing during Jade's pictures on Christmas Day. We were riding the train around the park during this time on Christmas Day and it was quite strange to see just a very few people in front of the park.

On these very crowded holidays, I don't really think there is any such thing as equal crowd distribution because of fp+. Everyone just knows to get there early or risk getting shut out, know matter what time their first FP ride is at.

I tend to think the inverse is true - if FP+ had the potential for equally distributing crowds throughout the day, the effects would be most noticeable on the busiest of days.

For instance, I've got pictures of Epcot on Thanksgiving day as well. Some would say the place looked deserted. Yet the SB line for Spaceship Earth was up to 60 minutes at times, while TT was consistently over 100 with single rider at 50 and they had the Soarin pavilion setup to divert all foot traffic in one direction only.

SB lines can most certainly rise like that if there are a ton of FP users arriving during their scheduled windows. At the time, I theorized the parks "looked" empty because everybody was in a line - most of which are shielded well from outside view.

 

[Disneylover99]

I can't really say for sure what the impact of FP+ was since this was my first time going over Christmas. The bulk of the crowds seemed to be in Fantasyland and on Main Street most of the day. The other lands seemed like regular crowds, just with higher then average wait times.

 

[Laketravis]

I can't really say for sure what the impact of FP+ was since this was my first time going over Christmas. The bulk of the crowds seemed to be in Fantasyland and on Main Street most of the day. The other lands seemed like regular crowds, just with higher then average wait times.

Got that right! I don't think I've ever seen IASW with a 45 minute wait time as many times as I did last month!

 

[whiporee]

In the pictures, it looks like the queues are empty, but that's because the parks have stopped admitting people. Look toward the top at the line for the train -- that'll give you a better feeling for just how crowded it was that day.

 

[Laketravis]

In the pictures, it looks like the queues are empty, but that's because the parks have stopped admitting people. Look toward the top at the line for the train -- that'll give you a better feeling for just how crowded it was that day.

Not the one I took on Thanksgiving day - the park was not closed and they had not stopped admitting people.

In fact, here's a picture I took around the same time of day the week after Thanksgiving - and if I didn't tell anyone when either picture was taken, it would be very difficult to determine one was on one of the busiest days of the year.

Yet SB waits on this day were high as well.