Any Reformed FP- Uber Users Who Have Embraced FP+ ?

[Disneylover99]

I can only tell you my experience, not anyone else's.

I understand our experiences are different, and I'm truly glad that you like fp+ .

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Correct ... and I really, REALLY fail to see why this is so hard to understand.

It's not FP+ that people hate, it's the management decision to make an effort to level out crowd flow throughout the parks that people have a problem with. An let's be honest here ... it was exactly the uber-users that were cranking out four and five rides on a major attraction in a day that bear the brunt of the new strategy. They're upset. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

Now if somebody wants to start discussing what impact ticking off these folks is going to have on WDW down the road ... please for the love of the Mouse, let's start having that conversation. I'm sick to death of this one.

I really don't think it will have much of an impact.

I'm always surprised with he volume of people who simply don't even think about this stuff...at all.

 

[erc]

Haven't been in 7 years. So FP+ is new to us. But from what I am reading, there is more usage of FP+ than original FP? I can recall from my trips during the FP days that there were a lot of people looking around in puzzlement of what all this FastPass business was about, or wondering what this special cutting line was. I think if you figured FP out, you really could leave the clueless wanderers in the dust. I see a lot more effort to bring people on board with FP+ though, so it is probably used more than the old system. Thus, not as big an advantage for the FP Uber users?

Would this be a fair assessment?

 

[Laketravis]

Haven't been in 7 years. So FP+ is new to us. But from what I am reading, there is more usage of FP+ than original FP? I can recall from my trips during the FP days that there were a lot of people looking around in puzzlement of what all this FastPass business was about, or wondering what this special cutting line was. I think if you figured FP out, you really could leave the clueless wanderers in the dust. I see a lot more effort to bring people on board with FP+ though, so it is probably used more than the old system. Thus, not as big an advantage for the FP Uber users?

Would this be a fair assessment?

I hear that many times, that the previous system wasn't used that much because people didn't know about it.

But honestly, with the kiosks right in front of each ride that had them, the signage above showing return times, the CM's available to answer questions, how could anyone NOT have been educated upon their initial wonderment as to what the heck that is and why are people getting in line before us? Sure, SOME people never got it - but then, SOME people don't get the current one either - several times last month as I went thru the FP line I was asked by someone in the SB line "Hey buddy, how much does that cost?" or "Where do you get those?".

So I don't believe that usage was less because of guest ignorance. I believe usage was less because of the way WDW counts usage.

Meaning, there were fewer attractions with FP. Now there are more. So if only half the attractions before had FP and now three-fourths do, a creative marketing department can legitimately say that only 50% of guests used FP before versus 75% now.

 

[famy27]

I hear that many times, that the previous system wasn't used that much because people didn't know about it.

But honestly, with the kiosks right in front of each ride that had them, the signage above showing return times, the CM's available to answer questions, how could anyone NOT have been educated upon their initial wonderment as to what the heck that is and why are people getting in line before us? Sure, SOME people never got it - but then, SOME people don't get the current one either - several times last month as I went thru the FP line I was asked by someone in the SB line "Hey buddy, how much does that cost?" or "Where do you get those?".

So I don't believe that usage was less because of guest ignorance. I believe usage was less because of the way WDW counts usage.

Meaning, there were fewer attractions with FP. Now there are more. So if only half the attractions before had FP and now three-fourths do, a creative marketing department can legitimately say that only 50% of guests used FP before versus 75% now.

Does anyone know that the paper FP usage rate is at DL? That's always been an intriguing question. I'd like to compare WDW paper FP rates, DL paper, and WDW FP+ to see what it shows. I'd want to know what percentage of guests pull/book at least one FP per day. Of course, I don't think that info is available to the public.

 

[jeffbear]

You may consider the (former) uber-users to be rather selfish ride-hogs and therefore somewhat deserving of having their touring plans "leveled out", and you may be right ... but I don't think that you can place EVERYBODY who's unhappy with FP+ in the category of "had it coming to them".

Not even close to my point. I could care less who took most advantage of the old system. It was there to be taken advantage of, and I'm sure there are some aspects of the new system that can be better exploited by those with the best information and practices. This is the same with ANY system that distributes ride availability.

However, I am completely frustrated with those who assume that the changes in distribution were somehow unintended consequences and thus something to be fixed. No. Disney CLEARLY took a proactive step to even out the availability of ALL rides, with the consequence that they are intentionally driving traffic to less congested rides. Honestly, what do you think the old lettered tickets were about back in the 70s? Same thing.

 

[Laketravis]

Honestly, what do you think the old lettered tickets were about back in the 70s? Same thing.

You're correct about what Disney is doing, but it's really not the same thing. The science behind yield management and the techniques used have evolved greatly over the last 40 years. And therefore the end results as well as impacts are substantially different.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Not even close to my point. I could care less who took most advantage of the old system. It was there to be taken advantage of, and I'm sure there are some aspects of the new system that can be better exploited by those with the best information and practices. This is the same with ANY system that distributes ride availability.

However, I am completely frustrated with those who assume that the changes in distribution were somehow unintended consequences and thus something to be fixed. No. Disney CLEARLY took a proactive step to even out the availability of ALL rides, with the consequence that they are intentionally driving traffic to less congested rides. Honestly, what do you think the old lettered tickets were about back in the 70s? Same thing.

I think their second goal with the new system is to keep people in the Disney parks. I know last December I spent way more time in the same parks just to accomplish what I would in half the time in the past. Some of it was due to longer wait times on rides there were lower wait times in the past. Some due to wait time between scheduling (not hours, but those 15, 20 minute waits add up). Some due to increased crowds.

 

[jeffbear]

You're correct about what Disney is doing, but it's really not the same thing. The science behind yield management and the techniques used have evolved greatly over the last 40 years. And therefore the end results as well as impacts are substantially different.

And the new approach is substantially more sophisticated than A through E tickets were.

Same basic principle either way, and that management strategy seems to be eluding a LOT of posters ... who as a consequence are loudly complaining about the wrong things.

 

[jeffbear]

And BTW, I'm actually old enough to have gone to Disneyland and run out of E Tickets as a kid. It sucked big time ... but it didn't keep me from going back God knows how many times since.

 

[Laketravis]

And BTW, I'm actually old enough to have gone to Disneyland and run out of E Tickets as a kid. It sucked big time ... but it didn't keep me from going back God knows how many times since.

LOL! Same here. Not to mention A's and B's were useless to me.

Same basic principle either way, and that management strategy seems to be eluding a LOT of posters ... who as a consequence are loudly complaining about the wrong things..

I agree the objectives are still the same, but even the principles themselves have evolved dramatically over the last four decades. And yes, sometimes the strategy itself eludes some people. I think that's why there can be a lot of head butting at times. It's not that I don't LIKE what they are doing, it's that I really do understand why they are doing it but wonder about some of the options they've decided to go with over others and what that can mean for the future. Will what we see today be the best it gets? Or will it get incrementally better over the years? If so, at what point do effort and increased guest satisfaction converge?

 

[Rebekkap]

No, I didn't miss that.

But I also read that 3 or 4 rides you fastpassed were HM and POTC. So when you say, I got 11 fp+ rides in one day with fp+ And I couldn't have done that with legacy. I think of it as really getting 7 or 8 fastpasses with fp+ since you wouldn't have needed a FP for HM and POTC with legacy fp. KWIM?

Fair point - but I still probably wouldn't have managed that number in a 12 hour day where we had two sit down meals - nor would I have been able to manage return times so they didn't clash with meals, nor would I have had three in hand already when we got to the park, instead I would have had to run and grab one, and hope the return time wasn't during breakfast, or wait until after breakfast when the return time may have gone up, and I may have had to wait the full two hours before grabbing another, which would have meant there's no way we would have scored 7-8 during the day - in fact given that after the first FP with a short return of around 40 mins the return times are likely to be above 2 hours, you'd be hard pressed to get 6-7, and the last couple would probably have been after I went back to the hotel!

 

[Disneylover99]

I honk their second goal with the new system is to keep people in the Disney parks. I know last December I spent way more time in the same parks just to accomplish what I would in half the time in the past. Some of it was due to longer wait times on rides there were lower wait times in the past. Some due to wait time between scheduling (not hours, but those 15, 20 minute waits add up). Some due to increased crowds.

We just came back from our fifth trip using FP+. Since it's implementation, we have spent less time in the parks and more time at our resort.

I kind of think one of the goals of FP+ is to quickly move people in and out of the parks rather then encouraging people to hang around the parks all day. With legacy FP, you might get a FP return time 3 or 4 hours out. It wasn't really enough time to go back to your resort and relax, so many people waited it out.

Now, you've got the morning crowd, making their fp's to noon and getting out. The afternoon people using their 3 fp's and getting out, and then the evening people arrive to use their 3 fp's.

Everyone is fairly satisfied because they got to ride three headliners and a couple of other rides with ease. And it never feels too crowded, because people are coming and going all day.

 

[Laketravis]

I always regret seeing a thread dwindle to a discussion comparing FP- to FP+.

Both systems were attempts to address an issue (long lines). The question should not be how they compare to each other, but more importantly how does the current system effectively address the issue.

 

[Laketravis]

We just came back from our fifth trip using FP+. Since it's implementation, we have spent less time in the parks and more time at our resort.

I kind of think one of the goals of FP+ is to quickly move people in and out of the parks rather then encouraging people to hang around the parks all day. With legacy FP, you might get a FP return time 3 or 4 hours out. It wasn't really enough time to go back to your resort and relax, so many people waited it out.

Now, you've got the morning crowd, making their fp's to noon and getting out. The afternoon people using their 3 fp's and getting out, and then the evening people arrive to use their 3 fp's..

That is exactly the case.

Everyone is fairly satisfied because they got to ride three headliners and a couple of other rides with ease. And it never feels too crowded, because people are coming and going all day.

Of course, those two items will always be subject to debate simply because they are subjective and not easily measured.

 

[Disneylover99]

nor would I have been able to manage return times so they didn't clash with meals, nor would I have had three in hand already when we got to the park, instead I would have had to run and grab one, and hope the return time wasn't during breakfast, or wait until after breakfast when the return time may have gone up

True. And all good benefits of FP+.

 

[Laketravis]

I kind of think one of the goals of FP+ is to quickly move people in and out of the parks rather then encouraging people to hang around the parks all day. With legacy FP, you might get a FP return time 3 or 4 hours out. It wasn't really enough time to go back to your resort and relax, so many people waited it out.

Now, you've got the morning crowd, making their fp's to noon and getting out. The afternoon people using their 3 fp's and getting out, and then the evening people arrive to use their 3 fp's.

I wanted to respond separately to these points because I think they are important. Everyone knows that part of the objective was to persuade guests to spend more money. So how can that happen if guests aren't spending as much time in the parks?

I think the answer to that is fairly simple. For all we know, Disney determined that the majority of park guests make major purchases on their way out of the parks. Want to increase the frequency of those major purchases each day? Simply increase churn.

 

[Disneylover99]

I wanted to respond separately to these points because I think they are important. Everyone knows that part of the objective was to persuade guests to spend more money. So how can that happen if guests aren't spending as much time in the parks?

I think the answer to that is fairly simple. For all we know, Disney determined that the majority of park guests make major purchases on their way out of the parks. Want to increase the frequency of those major purchases each day? Simply increase churn.

The objective is to increase revenue for Disney. I don't see it as an"I bet people will hit the gift shops on the way out" kind of thing. I see it more as, let's get more and more people using park tickets to enter the park.....and get them out within 4-5 hours no matter what time of day they arrive.

But of course you are right.....a good healthy churn of people throughout the day will increase gift shop sales as well.

 

[Laketravis]

I see it more as, let's get more and more people using park tickets to enter the park.....and get them out within 4-5 hours no matter what time of day they arrive.

Oh, absolutely - there's no better way to increase park capacity (and thus ticket sales) than to be able to fit more people in the parks each day by reducing the amount of time they spend in the park.

And like you indicated earlier, not only does it take pressure off the parks but the infrastructure that supports it as well. Buses, boats, monorails, resort venues, etc.

Churn, baby, Churn!!

 

[Mambo Junkie]

We just came back from our fifth trip using FP+. Since it's implementation, we have spent less time in the parks and more time at our resort.

I kind of think one of the goals of FP+ is to quickly move people in and out of the parks rather then encouraging people to hang around the parks all day. With legacy FP, you might get a FP return time 3 or 4 hours out. It wasn't really enough time to go back to your resort and relax, so many people waited it out.

Now, you've got the morning crowd, making their fp's to noon and getting out. The afternoon people using their 3 fp's and getting out, and then the evening people arrive to use their 3 fp's.

Everyone is fairly satisfied because they got to ride three headliners and a couple of other rides with ease. And it never feels too crowded, because people are coming and going all day.

Well yes, I spent less time per day in the park but it took me 3 1/2 days to get done at MK what in the past would have taken me 1 1/2 to 2 days to do. I would ( this past trip) gone back a 4 th day but I cancelled the whole day just to have a day with no reservations.
I even cancelled BOG.