Any professional plumbers here on the Dis?

[CapeCodTenor]

Hello fellow Dis’ers. I have a question for any professional plumbers out there. I’m in the process of adding a second floor to my house. As of right now, my wife and I don’t know exactly what we’re doing with the second floor bathroom, only that we’re going to be doing a two sink vanity and separate tub and shower, and of course the toilet. Right now, we don’t know what kind/brand/style of vanity we’re going to use, only that it’s going to be a double sink vanity. And as for the tub, we were going to buy a new Jacuzzi tub from someone that never installed his, but that fell through, which leaves us looking for a new tub. Our plumber came by yesterday and talked with our contractor (who framed the upstairs) and my father-in-law (who’s acting as the general contractor) and supposedly said, according to my father-in-law, that he can’t do anything until he knows exactly what we’re going to be doing with the upstairs bathroom. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it has been my understanding (talking with other plumbers) that a plumber doesn’t need to know the specifics of the bathroom to do the rough in work, am I correct? As I understand it, the plumber just needs to know where things are going to go so he/she can bring the pipes to that general area. I ask because I had a fairly large “discussion” with my father-in-law about this last night.

Thanks,
CCT

 

[Agri]

We just had out bathroom done, and I can tell you that they definitely need a rough layout. They've got to have pipes for the sinks, the toilet, the shower, and the tub, so they've got to know where they are going to be placed in the room to bring all those pipes in.

Also, the fewer times you have someone out to your house, the more you can keep your costs down. I wouldn't want to pay for a plumber to get pipes to the bathroom and then have to come out again to put them where you want them and then come in again to hook everything up.

 

[dis-happy]

When we did a major remodel (including 3 bathrooms) we had every fixture picked out and purchased before construction even began. I'd say it's very important to know, and as the PP stated, you don't want to have to pay for extra plumber trips to have things re-done because the specs were incorrect.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

Thanks for the posts guys, I do appreciate it. And I can see how it helps keep the costs down to know what you want when you start these things, but unfortunately the wife and I haven't had the chance to sit down to discuss these things (our schedules have not been in synch lately. It was just my father-in-law was saying the plumber can't do a thing until we know exactly what we are doing, and I mean down to either a tile, marble or fiberglass shower...that kind of thing. We know where the shower, tub, vanity and toilet are going, we, my wife and I, just don't know what kind of vanity we're getting or whether or not we're going to use tile or marble in the shower. I just think my father-in-law wants it done now and he's trying to force the issue by telling me we can't start until we know all the details.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Not a plumber, but I have done a fair bit of home renovation. For things like the tub and toilet, the drain plumbing location specifications can be pretty tight. Water provisioning can be "close", but drainage has to be spot on. Sinks shouldn't be a big deal unless you are going with pedestals instead of vanity cabinets. Pedestals require more precise plumbing.

So it really depends.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

Not a plumber, but I have done a fair bit of home renovation. For things like the tub and toilet, the drain plumbing location specifications can be pretty tight. Water provisioning can be "close", but drainage has to be spot on. Sinks shouldn't be a big deal unless you are going with pedestals instead of vanity cabinets. Pedestals require more precise plumbing.

So it really depends.

I can understand about the drains for the tub and shower, we know where the toilet's going, so I guess my father-in-law had a point. And since we're doing a double sink vanity instead of a pedestal sink that leaves a bit of room to play with, not much I'm sure, but a little. I just don't understand why my father-in-law was pushing me to know if I was going to use tile, fiberglass or marble in the shower.

 

[Daisy14'sDH]

I am a Licensed Plumber and A General Contractor and teh more you know the easier it is on the plumber.

No one wants to second guess what is going where, ever.

You need to know what kind of tub and have rough in specs for the plumber. If he plumbs everything in and ends up on the wrong side of a joist it can be a big deal to move everything.

The shower is a basic, if you know the size thats great but, if you decide to with a custom cultured marble base the drain will more than likely not be in the same location as it would be with a 36" neo angle fiberglass shower. The fiberglass is generally either 12"x12" or "15"x15" depending on manufacturer so that can be roughed in accordingly but a marble base can be anywhere.

On a side note a rough in usually includes haveing the tub and shower there. They get installed during the rough in process. I never say a rough in is complete without them installed... level!!!

 

[CapeCodTenor]

I am a Licensed Plumber and A General Contractor and teh more you know the easier it is on the plumber.

No one wants to second guess what is going where, ever.

You need to know what kind of tub and have rough in specs for the plumber. If he plumbs everything in and ends up on the wrong side of a joist it can be a big deal to move everything.

The shower is a basic, if you know the size thats great but, if you decide to with a custom cultured marble base the drain will more than likely not be in the same location as it would be with a 36" neo angle fiberglass shower. The fiberglass is generally either 12"x12" or "15"x15" depending on manufacturer so that can be roughed in accordingly but a marble base can be anywhere.

On a side note a rough in usually includes haveing the tub and shower there. They get installed during the rough in process. I never say a rough in is complete without them installed... level!!!

Thanks for the reply, now I'm understanding more. Unfortunately the tub changed. I originally was going to buy a new jacuzzi tub from someone who wasn't going to use his but he backed out. As for the shower, we just figured that one out.

Thanks again.

 

[momof1princess]

OP, we built a house ourselves from the ground up 11 years ago, and it really does make things easier if you know exactly what you want and where everything is going to go. if i may make a suggestion, when doing a bathroom, if you can, put as many items requiring water on the same wall as possible. for example: tub, toilet and sinks all need water, so, if possible, put tub and toilet on same wall. this is a "wet wall" and you want as few of these as possible. trust me, when you have a water pipe leak inside a wet wall, it isn't pretty. we have two bathrooms, and in the smaller bathroom, the sink, toilet and tub all share a wet wall and this wall is also the wet wall for the tub and toilet in the master bathroom.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I can understand about the drains for the tub and shower, we know where the toilet's going, so I guess my father-in-law had a point. And since we're doing a double sink vanity instead of a pedestal sink that leaves a bit of room to play with, not much I'm sure, but a little. I just don't understand why my father-in-law was pushing me to know if I was going to use tile, fiberglass or marble in the shower.

LOL - sounds like he just wants you to make up your mind.

 

[Agri]

Thanks for the posts guys, I do appreciate it. And I can see how it helps keep the costs down to know what you want when you start these things, but unfortunately the wife and I haven't had the chance to sit down to discuss these things (our schedules have not been in synch lately. It was just my father-in-law was saying the plumber can't do a thing until we know exactly what we are doing, and I mean down to either a tile, marble or fiberglass shower...that kind of thing. We know where the shower, tub, vanity and toilet are going, we, my wife and I, just don't know what kind of vanity we're getting or whether or not we're going to use tile or marble in the shower. I just think my father-in-law wants it done now and he's trying to force the issue by telling me we can't start until we know all the details.

Nothing started on our bathroom until we knew what we were using and exactly where everything is going. The tub was actually one of our first purchases - before the tile was even delivered to the house.

Truthfully, there is no point in doing a bathroom until you have it all planned out - just like a kitchen. Its easy to make a bedroom, but a bathroom you have to account for the pipes going though the house, every fixture, the flooring, and the wall color. I'm not sure why you would want to just run pipes and hope everything works out when you finally get around to figuring out what you want to do in that room.

Projects, no matter how well-planned out, can run into various problems and run over budget. I would not even think of taking on a fairly unplanned out and unorganized project - it would be so easy to be paying way more for the final product than you need to.

Plumbing isn't like electricity where you can just run a cord if you misjudge where you told them to put in an outlet.

Honestly, if you're going to undertake such a project, you and your wife need to make the time to sit down and discuss things. Talk to your FIL and find out what order the bathroom needs to be done in and start tackling it. Otherwise it will take forever for things to get done and you will have lots of problems finding the people to do what you need to because you won't have firm dates for when you actually need them to come in and work. Sure, you can guess your way along, but you'll be paying a lot more and it will take a lot longer than it would otherwise.

 

[dis-happy]

FWIW, I saw a Holmes on Holmes episode where he tore apart a bathroom shower done incorrectly. The drain wasn't at the proper level for the tile that was installed. Considering all the different thicknesses of different materials that can be used in a shower (tile, pre-fab fiberglass, etc), I'd say it's imperative to know what you are using there.

Also, when doing a big project, one of the biggest cost eaters is wasted time. Your bottom line will be better in the end if you make your decisions sooner and get everything ordered (many things need several weeks lead time to be delivered), so when the construction is going forward everything is ready to go in.

That said, January is a great time to pick up things on sale at home stores, especially discontinued floor samples and scratch and dent items. If you're not picky, you can save a lot of money on the vanity, toilet, faucets, etc.

 

[golfgal]

I can understand about the drains for the tub and shower, we know where the toilet's going, so I guess my father-in-law had a point. And since we're doing a double sink vanity instead of a pedestal sink that leaves a bit of room to play with, not much I'm sure, but a little. I just don't understand why my father-in-law was pushing me to know if I was going to use tile, fiberglass or marble in the shower.

Because you need a different kind of wallboard for marble/tile then you do if you use a fiberglass surround. If you don't want to listen to your FIL, I would hire a general contractor that you will listen to. He isn't trying to make your life difficult, he is trying to do the job right.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I'm understanding more. The problem I was having was my father-in-law wasn't telling me why I had to have everything figured out, just that I had to get it done now....which irritates me to no end. I hate being told do something right away and not be given a reason, which my father-in-law does all the time. I have no problem doing it, just give me a reason. Also, my wife and I had a very busy schedule, to the point we didn't see much of each other for almost 2 months straight. So not a lot of time to sit down and plan when you don't see each other. Thanks again for explaining everything.