Any news when DVC members can get an annual pass???

[tjkraz]

So add more staff, open your amenities fully af Parks and Resorts and sell APs?

It is that simple.

What isn't open at the theme parks?

The good one is that it seems pent up demand is slowing down. Today Disney released a new round of discounts and they're slightly better than the previous ones. If demand slows down, then Disney will need AP again to fill the parks, which means they might restart to sell AP again.

I guess the question is whether the promo is more about filling the parks or filling the hotels. To some extent, the two go hand in hand. But a targeted vacation package offer has a different impact on the parks than selling passes which grant access 340-365 days per year.

 

[tjkraz]

Can't they use their creative genius to give DVC members a modified pass or punch card (good for example 20-30 days in a year) at a discount.

This is what they should be doing for DVC members.

 

[zavandor]

This is what they should be doing for DVC members.

I'm more for an AP that works only if you're staying onsite. It means if you want to use it for more days, you must buy more points or pay cash. A win both for Disney and members.

What isn't open at the theme parks?


I guess the question is whether the promo is more about filling the parks or filling the hotels. To some extent, the two go hand in hand. But a targeted vacation package offer has a different impact on the parks than selling passes which grant access 340-365 days per year.

Good point. With the explosion of residents in central Florida, perhaps WDW is becoming more of a local park than in the past. But maybe if the general demand is slowing down, it could be felt across all demographics (locals, on site, DVC, cash guests). Also, they still aren't to full capacity either, some shows or street entertainment aren't back (they might never) and some restaurants might not fill all tables, so if they finally get to hire everyone they need at the same time as demand slows down, they might need APH again.

 

[tjkraz]

Good point. With the explosion of residents in central Florida, perhaps WDW is becoming more of a local park than in the past. But maybe if the general demand is slowing down, it could be felt across all demographics (locals, on site, DVC, cash guests). Also, they still aren't to full capacity either, some shows or street entertainment aren't back (they might never) and some restaurants might not fill all tables, so if they finally get to hire everyone they need at the same time as demand slows down, they might need APH again.

I'm not aware of much that is closed anymore.

Voyage of the Little Mermaid and Streetmosphere performers are still unavailable at DHS. But consider what would happen even if those features returned. Those are secondary distractions. If you bring back those experiences while raising the attendance cap at DHS, it's just more people who expect to be able to ride RNR, TOT, Slinky, etc. Thousands of guests will spend 30 minutes at VOTLM and some will watch the street performers, but everyone still expects to ride several of the "E" tickets.

Other current closures are pretty modest. Storytime with Belle at MK is still gone, but that was a very low capacity show in the first place. DAK needs its Dinoland replacement, but that's years away. Epcot just got 2 new attractions with Moana still coming.

Meanwhile the parks all need to be looking at maintenance schedules, which will negatively impact the guest experience. Disney seemed to forego extended ride closures during the pandemic, likely to aid park capacity when social distancing and low attendance caps were a thing. But there are rides in need of that 3-6 month closure for refurbishment. Some attractions were refurbished during their closure (Fantasmic comes to mind.) Splash is closing for a year and RNR for 6 months. Others probably need to be added to that schedule. Fortunately Tron will help pick up some of the slack.

 

[CraigInPA]

After our trip in March 2022 and having to pay full price for tickets (our APs expired 2 days before the "eligible date" to obtain one through the "recovery" program) and the huge frustration with Genie+/ILL's, we decided to take a year off from Disney. Fortunately, there are enough people who want to rent points, so we're going elsewhere on vacation on the rental fees realized. Unless APs come back, Genie+/ILL's are revamped to be usable for us, or the crowds disappear, we'll be anywhere but WDW.

The whole stupidity of Parks being in exclusive control of AP's for DVC members shows that we need a better advocate at the negotiating table with them, or the silos of control at Disney so powerful that they're destined for failure.

 

[kilik64]

What isn't open at the theme parks?

Enchanted tales with belle. (huge bummer, my oldest loved and my two youngest wont get to do it)

 

[zavandor]

I'm not aware of much that is closed anymore.

Voyage of the Little Mermaid and Streetmosphere performers are still unavailable at DHS. But consider what would happen even if those features returned. Those are secondary distractions. If you bring back those experiences while raising the attendance cap at DHS, it's just more people who expect to be able to ride RNR, TOT, Slinky, etc. Thousands of guests will spend 30 minutes at VOTLM and some will watch the street performers, but everyone still expects to ride several of the "E" tickets.

Other current closures are pretty modest. Storytime with Belle at MK is still gone, but that was a very low capacity show in the first place. DAK needs its Dinoland replacement, but that's years away. Epcot just got 2 new attractions with Moana still coming.

Meanwhile the parks all need to be looking at maintenance schedules, which will negatively impact the guest experience. Disney seemed to forego extended ride closures during the pandemic, likely to aid park capacity when social distancing and low attendance caps were a thing. But there are rides in need of that 3-6 month closure for refurbishment. Some attractions were refurbished during their closure (Fantasmic comes to mind.) Splash is closing for a year and RNR for 6 months. Others probably need to be added to that schedule. Fortunately Tron will help pick up some of the slack.

Attractions could be open, but maybe park hours are shorter because they don't have enough CMs, or attractions are running at low capacity sometime during the day. (Increasing park hours means increased capacity).
Not sure if it's still the case, but I've read Disney was still looking for a lot of positions and offering bonuses for some. Is WDW firing on all cylinders?

 

[gmi3804]

Is WDW firing on all cylinders?

Not by a long shot. The parks are filthy, at least by previous Disney standards.

 

[tjkraz]

Attractions could be open, but maybe park hours are shorter because they don't have enough CMs, or attractions are running at low capacity sometime during the day. (Increasing park hours means increased capacity).

Perhaps.

Personally I think the most impactful change was the loss of pre-scheduled FP+ ride times. The 7am wake up for Genie, plus the 30 minutes of early entry plus the general uncertainty over how much people will be able to do in a single day has (anecdotally) lead to people arriving much earlier and possibly staying longer. On a day we're sending $60+ for a family to have Genie+ access, most people will work hard to maximize that value. With FP+, we could ride our 3 rides with little wait, fill in with a few others that traditionally have short waits and leave the park satisfied. Now our park days seem to be longer, albeit with more attractions experienced.

Maybe that's what Disney wants. Busy parks are a good thing if those people are buying more food and souvenirs along the way.

Not sure if it's still the case, but I've read Disney was still looking for a lot of positions and offering bonuses for some. Is WDW firing on all cylinders?

Probably not. But I'm not sure how much the impact is being felt on attractions. Things like omnimover rides and coasters seem to be running normally, one group after another. They could potentially trim a few things on the edges like closing one of the 3 elevators on TOT and only loading one platform on POTC. How often does that happen? I dunno.

Ride maintenance seems to be an ongoing issue. I don't know if that's primarily due to staffing, supply chain issues, willful neglect, etc. Short of playing the "Chapek" card, you'd think people like Josh D'Amaro, Jeff Vahle and the park VPs would see the value in maintaining a high uptime. It's not like they can just send all of the CMs home and cut labor when a ride goes down for 60 minutes.

 

[MickeyMike87]

I get that APs might not be as profitable to them but for those for us who have to fly in we spend money in the parks. If I was local I could see just popping in and out but we book dining and shop since it is our vacation. Out last two trips we had no APs and it was not the same. One trip we did a split at Universal to check out Endless Summer and honestly Disney should be worried. Universal will never give me the Disney feels but they have figured out the formula. Casual theme park fans will see the difference in value and quality. As the perks that made Disney special and created a magical trip slowly get pulled away in favor of short term profits people will look outside of the bubble.

 

[elenex]

If they aren't going to have APs, they should at least do a punch card of 20-30 visits a year for DVC. At the very least, offer longer than 10 day tickets to DVC knowing our financial commitment and vacationing habits. I'm on the west coast and have converted to one 2 week trip every 2-3 years. The 10 day max is a killer as we love to just stroll into epcot for dinner and a walk around WS even on the resort days.

I've thought about the "x number of visits per year" type of annual pass as a great solution before, glad to see others have had the same thought. Wish Disney would, I'd sign up for it in a heartbeat. In the distant past, all tickets worked like this...(actually I think they were valid infinitely if I'm not mistaken).

 

[RoseGold]

There are a lot of solutions they COULD do here, Pixie Dust, after 3PM pass, 10 day punch card, on site only passes, something. They haven't because they don't want to.

If they're going to do something, I think it will be soon. It's past the holidays, and people are fed up with this. It's been too long. If it doesn't happen soon, I wouldn't be holding my breath for much longer. Disney has been pretty clear about how much they value the special Blue Card club, and what their goal is for the parkgoers.

 

[tjkraz]

I get that APs might not be as profitable to them but for those for us who have to fly in we spend money in the parks.

Everybody who enters the parks spends money. On days when the parks will reach capacity, there's logic in favoring those who are bigger spenders. I'm not necessarily saying that it's right to de-emphasize APs in the manner Disney has, but I do see the logic behind it.

Post-Christmas, we're entering a period where the parks are not looking as busy. Right now, the only days with any capacity restrictions tomorrow and Saturday. That's it..for all of 2023. If attendance is headed for a softer period over the next few months, it could certainly pave the way for Disney changing its minds on APs.

One trip we did a split at Universal to check out Endless Summer and honestly Disney should be worried. Universal will never give me the Disney feels but they have figured out the formula. Casual theme park fans will see the difference in value and quality. As the perks that made Disney special and created a magical trip slowly get pulled away in favor of short term profits people will look outside of the bubble.

I'm wading into shark-infested waters here but I'll give it a shot.

IMO, one of the big differences between Universal parks and Disney Parks is the ratio of guests to attractions. The two Universal parks have more rides than either Epcot or Animal Kingdom. Probably more than Hollywood Studios. But those 5 parks draw about the same number of guests annually (about 11-12 million pre-covid.) So apples-to-apples, you're probably going to have shorter waits at USO or IOA, especially if using their express pass which is much more efficient than any of Disney's comparable offerings due to the relative scarcity.

Magic Kingdom has a few more rides than either Universal park, but before Covid it was drawing almost twice as many visitors per year (21 million.)

With more guests (proportionately) at each of the Disney Parks, longer lines are bound to result. So if you're Disney, how to you address this:

1) Raise prices: higher prices should reduce demand. (But they also tend to raise expectations and can prove frustrating to your core customers.)
2) Attendance limits: if you explicitly block people from entering the park, it helps those who do get in. This is literally Park Pass.
3) Not selling APs: another deliberate attempt to reduce the crowds on any given day
4) Increase staffing: Disney has been trying hard to staff-up since the pandemic began to subside; it's unclear to me if what we see today is exacerbated by Disney deliberately under-staffing parks or if they simply don't have the workers. Chapek is to blame for laying people off. But at the time the government was handing out extra unemployment benefits, there was no Covid vaccine and still no clear understanding of how far away we were from "normal." The parks were open, but people weren't traveling and government restrictions limited Disney's operations.
5) Build more attractions: Let's hope! Biggest failure of the Chapek regime, IMO.

At risk of offending the Universal fans, let's be blunt: Universal has no attendance caps, low AP prices and moderate wait times. They'd LOVE to add another 20-30% to their annual guest counts, which would lead to longer lines for everyone. But the business just isn't there.

Meanwhile, Disney still has a lot of business in spite of the higher prices, attendance limits, paid Genie, etc. And they seem to be trying to find the right formula to manage that business so everyone isn't left suffering.

I'm not saying Universal is bad. By all means, GO to their parks if it's a better experience. I just think Disney and US face different challenges right now. It's certainly more complicated than "be like Universal." Lifting attendance restrictions and freely selling APs at lower prices won't improve anything at WDW.

 

[MickeyMike87]

Everybody who enters the parks spends money. On days when the parks will reach capacity, there's logic in favoring those who are bigger spenders. I'm not necessarily saying that it's right to de-emphasize APs in the manner Disney has, but I do see the logic behind it.

Post-Christmas, we're entering a period where the parks are not looking as busy. Right now, the only days with any capacity restrictions tomorrow and Saturday. That's it..for all of 2023. If attendance is headed for a softer period over the next few months, it could certainly pave the way for Disney changing its minds on APs.


I'm wading into shark-infested waters here but I'll give it a shot.

IMO, one of the big differences between Universal parks and Disney Parks is the ratio of guests to attractions. The two Universal parks have more rides than either Epcot or Animal Kingdom. Probably more than Hollywood Studios. But those 5 parks draw about the same number of guests annually (about 11-12 million pre-covid.) So apples-to-apples, you're probably going to have shorter waits at USO or IOA, especially if using their express pass which is much more efficient than any of Disney's comparable offerings due to the relative scarcity.

Magic Kingdom has a few more rides than either Universal park, but before Covid it was drawing almost twice as many visitors per year (21 million.)

With more guests (proportionately) at each of the Disney Parks, longer lines are bound to result. So if you're Disney, how to you address this:

1) Raise prices: higher prices should reduce demand. (But they also tend to raise expectations and can prove frustrating to your core customers.)
2) Attendance limits: if you explicitly block people from entering the park, it helps those who do get in. This is literally Park Pass.
3) Not selling APs: another deliberate attempt to reduce the crowds on any given day
4) Increase staffing: Disney has been trying hard to staff-up since the pandemic began to subside; it's unclear to me if what we see today is exacerbated by Disney deliberately under-staffing parks or if they simply don't have the workers. Chapek is to blame for laying people off. But at the time the government was handing out extra unemployment benefits, there was no Covid vaccine and still no clear understanding of how far away we were from "normal." The parks were open, but people weren't traveling and government restrictions limited Disney's operations.
5) Build more attractions: Let's hope! Biggest failure of the Chapek regime, IMO.

At risk of offending the Universal fans, let's be blunt: Universal has no attendance caps, low AP prices and moderate wait times. They'd LOVE to add another 20-30% to their annual guest counts, which would lead to longer lines for everyone. But the business just isn't there.

Meanwhile, Disney still has a lot of business in spite of the higher prices, attendance limits, paid Genie, etc. And they seem to be trying to find the right formula to manage that business so everyone isn't left suffering.

I'm not saying Universal is bad. By all means, GO to their parks if it's a better experience. I just think Disney and US face different challenges right now. It's certainly more complicated than "be like Universal." Lifting attendance restrictions and freely selling APs at lower prices won't improve anything at WDW.

I appreciate your thoughtful answer and could not agree more with you.

 

[New Mouse]

I'm not aware of much that is closed anymore.

Voyage of the Little Mermaid and Streetmosphere performers are still unavailable at DHS. But consider what would happen even if those features returned. Those are secondary distractions. If you bring back those experiences while raising the attendance cap at DHS, it's just more people who expect to be able to ride RNR, TOT, Slinky, etc. Thousands of guests will spend 30 minutes at VOTLM and some will watch the street performers, but everyone still expects to ride several of the "E" tickets.

Other current closures are pretty modest. Storytime with Belle at MK is still gone, but that was a very low capacity show in the first place. DAK needs its Dinoland replacement, but that's years away. Epcot just got 2 new attractions with Moana still coming.

Meanwhile the parks all need to be looking at maintenance schedules, which will negatively impact the guest experience. Disney seemed to forego extended ride closures during the pandemic, likely to aid park capacity when social distancing and low attendance caps were a thing. But there are rides in need of that 3-6 month closure for refurbishment. Some attractions were refurbished during their closure (Fantasmic comes to mind.) Splash is closing for a year and RNR for 6 months. Others probably need to be added to that schedule. Fortunately Tron will help pick up some of the slack.

You also have to factor in things at the resorts that have been gutted as well. Everything is a people suck and when you remove it from somewhere, its got to go somewhere else. If someone used to rent a water sprite at Polynesian, they are now in line somewhere else. It doesn't mean there are more people on the whole, there is just less to do. Every last activity and experience makes a difference in the crowd level and feel.

 

[McMinnieRose]

I understand the argument against selling AP's freely, but don't DVC members deserve to be treated a little differently? I also don't think an unrestricted AP is necessary for most DVC members--just a pass that allows them to attend several times a year for a more reasonable amount.

 

[McMinnieRose]

Disney also needs to be careful--kids will find any park fun. The extreme loyalty to Disney starts with early indoctrination and "memories." If die-hard Disney fans decide to "try out" Universal with their children, Disney may never recapture that audience. And then there is the spill-over. The more annoyed we are with Disney, and as we lose the Disney "habit," the less likely we'll watch their movies or stream their shows. Also, it sounds as though they are losing opportunities to sell their DVC points based upon what I am reading here.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I understand the argument against selling AP's freely, but don't DVC members deserve to be treated a little differently? I also don't think an unrestricted AP is necessary for most DVC members--just a pass that allows them to attend several times a year for a more reasonable amount.

Disney also needs to be careful--kids will find any park fun. The extreme loyalty to Disney starts with early indoctrination and "memories." If die-hard Disney fans decide to "try out" Universal with their children, Disney may never recapture that audience. And then there is the spill-over. The more annoyed we are with Disney, and as we lose the Disney "habit," the less likely we'll watch their movies or stream their shows. Also, it sounds as though they are losing opportunities to sell their DVC points based upon what I am reading here.

Neither of these are new arguments here on the boards. But as others have said, at least under Chapek, that argument didn't carry any weight with the Disney execs despite any believe we here might have. Maybe it will under Iger; he has not been around long enough to make those kinds of changes yet.

For me personally, I would LOVE some kind of ticket that was only valid when I was staying on property. However, that's a difficult one since it would be different for someone staying 1 week vs someone who takes 3-4 trips a year staying a week each time. So I am not sure how they would price such a beast. Maybe you can buy the number of days up to 30? I also wouldn't mind an AP that worked as they do now, but are capped at 30 days over the course of the year....

I currently have an AP because I bought it the first day they went on sale post-pandemic. I have religiously held it since and renewed it. I hate the cost I pay because - take this year for example - I may not even go this year..... but I am still paying for an AP. I bet Disney loves it. I hate it. But I will continue to pay it. So..... yeah. Give me a better option. But I would have to be certain that if I let go of my AP, I can get something else that I trust will be there (is renewable). I would be worried to jump off a ticket cliff with no undo action available to me.

 

[McMinnieRose]

Neither of these are new arguments here on the boards. But as others have said, at least under Chapek, that argument didn't carry any weight with the Disney execs despite any believe we here might have. Maybe it will under Iger; he has not been around long enough to make those kinds of changes yet.

For me personally, I would LOVE some kind of ticket that was only valid when I was staying on property. However, that's a difficult one since it would be different for someone staying 1 week vs someone who takes 3-4 trips a year staying a week each time. So I am not sure how they would price such a beast. Maybe you can buy the number of days up to 30? I also wouldn't mind an AP that worked as they do now, but are capped at 30 days over the course of the year....

I currently have an AP because I bought it the first day they went on sale post-pandemic. I have religiously held it since and renewed it. I hate the cost I pay because - take this year for example - I may not even go this year..... but I am still paying for an AP. I bet Disney loves it. I hate it. But I will continue to pay it. So..... yeah. Give me a better option. But I would have to be certain that if I let go of my AP, I can get something else that I trust will be there (is renewable). I would be worried to jump off a ticket cliff with no undo action available to me.

Agreed!

 

[Sandisw]

Two things.

Not everyone sunk a boatload of money into disney buying tons of points with the thought of making 4 or 5 trips a years. And continues to pay thousands a year on dues.

We don't have that many points. Taking one trip a year or banking would be workable for us.

And I had renewed my ap in April,but 7 months later at park, the CM offered me , pay an extra $150 ish and get an AP dated from that day. with the rules of a new AP. I haven't heard of this happening from anyone else. So who knows why me?

They offered that to my daughter when she had not used her renewal at all and the year was almost over,

So, she got to pay the difference and reset the start date.