Any idea when we can buy WDW annual passes?

[CampbellzSoup]

As a matter of speculation, I believe most of you have heard of Len Testa and Jim Hill? Probably the two most connected individuals who do not actually work at Disney. They don't just know cast members, they are friends with many Imagineers and even execs.

So I will simply quote from their latest podcast(The Disney Dish) starting at the 6:50 minute mark: "We are not talking about annual passes anymore, we are talking about a loyalty program(quoting Chapek's own words from a previous earnings call)" Testa: "That's not an annual pass is it?" Jim Hill in a demoralized tone: "no..."

They continue and once again quote Chapek talking about annual passholders: "We weren't getting the spending we wanted from them"

Testa then goes on to say that last earnings call Chapek said: "if you rank every type of visitor from the most to least profitable, your once in a lifetime grand floridian visitor would be at the top and on the very bottom of the list would be Annual passholders" or "people who pick up mcdonalds on the way to the park" as Jim Hill remarked ...

Testa says: "think of Las Vegas, the more you play or the more you stay the more rewards points you get, I think it's going to be something like that"
______________________________________________________________________

I believe 1000% that the AP program will end at both parks across the board. Those of you who use the fact that you are getting renewals as some form of proof that it will continue, the reason that is happening is because they don't want the bad PR of taking advantage of Covid and so they are allowing a very small percentage of you in limbo to renew, but your pass will end in a year and you will be in the same boat as the rest of us. I believe that more than I believe in gravity itself at this point.

Well…all good things must come to an end right?? Just glad I never canceled mine and still using it! When they take that Privilege away I’ll rework the way I tour Disney, but until then let’s enjoy!

 

[DebbieB]

A lot of WDW AP holders don't even live in the country. It is a very different mix than DL and I do believe Chapek himself was referring to DL.

ETA: DVC owners would end up selling massive points because what's the point of having all those points and no AP.

I am a DVC member and that would be a disaster. I typically get 3 or 4 trips out of an AP. I can’t buy new tickets every trip. I have a 10 day trip in September/October. That alone would be more than a Gold AP.

I’m lucky, I had an active AP during the closure that I renewed. I have a member friend who is also a TDS CM and her gate pass is blocked and she can’t buy an AP to cover 2 trips this year for her and her son. So she has to buy 2 sets of regular tickets, she was able to use the 2 day free promo. We talked about another trip but she can’t afford to buy yet another set of regular tickets.

 

[New Mouse]

It wouldnt just cause people to sell dvc points, it would destroy new dvc sales. Seems suicidal to me, but at the end of the day Iger, Cheapek and the cronies seem clueless when it comes to parks.

It would be very brazen to be the only theme park that doesnt offer a true annual pass in some form.

 

[ford91exploder]

It wouldnt just cause people to sell dvc points, it would destroy new dvc sales. Seems suicidal to me, but at the end of the day Iger, Cheapek and the cronies seem clueless when it comes to parks.

It would be very brazen to be the only theme park that doesnt offer a true annual pass in some form.

They dont care in a previous post Jim Hill noted that Chapek said they were not getting the spending desired from AP’s. Chapek also considers DVC ‘bad business’ because of their spending patterns.

the baby is going out with the bathwater on this looming disaster.

 

[w84no1]

So my APs expired in December of 2019, I saw where someone on this thread was able to recover their AP that expired in December. I gave it a shot and was told no.

 

[jpeterson]

So my APs expired in December of 2019, I saw where someone on this thread was able to recover their AP that expired in December. I gave it a shot and was told no.

I think it had to expire during or after the closure, but I'm not sure the rules have been consistent or they may have changed.

 

[ellbell]

They dont care in a previous post Jim Hill noted that Chapek said they were not getting the spending desired from AP’s. Chapek also considers DVC ‘bad business’ because of their spending patterns.

the baby is going out with the bathwater on this looming disaster.

So they are converting 200 cash rooms at GF to DVC but DVC is "bad business"? Makes total sense.

 

[ford91exploder]

So they are converting 200 cash rooms at GF to DVC but DVC is "bad business"? Makes total sense.

Yes but you need to see that Disney is schizophrenic on this issue, that 200 unit DVC conversion will bring in about a billion in cold hard cash. And while your contract states that Disney must give you your points allocation.

There is no corresponding clause that Disney must make accommodations available for you to rent even if outside of preferred room class or resort or time of year.


The TLDR version is Disney has no contractual responsibility to have points for rent other than on a as available basis, and we suspect DVC is playing fast and loose with breakage already. And this gives Disney a chance to shift yet more Mousekeeping to DVC from CRO increasing GF profits while sticking members with the bill.

Lots of wiggle room for Disney here. To do anything they want.

 

[mackmack]

Let's just stop and look at this logically for a moment. An AP is $900 for a FL resident. Assume they go twice a month, that is $37 per trip to the park(excluding parking). Now assume they are bringing in food or dining before entering/leaving the park. At that point, it is literally not worth Disney's time to accommodate that customer. To have that guest taking up parking and walking around the park and filling lines and taking parade/firework spots up. I can't believe anyone here would deny that? $37 per visit to accommodate that person is LOSING money essentially for every single one of those people.

Now compare that to someone who pays full ticket price. 5 day park hoppers and eats AND stays on site in resort. I believe they would make up that entire AP in a single day and then do it again the very next day with a new guest.

If they can fill the parks with non-AP's just the same as they could WITH AP's? How in the world can you possibly make the argument for them to keep it? It makes zero sense at all and I can't understand why anyone would even present the other side of argument that they will keep it.

When AP's came out they had nothing. They had space mountain. The parks are now 3 times the size, fully digitized and efficient, they own Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, and Fox. Also, they have just STARTED to exploit the Marvel brands in the parks. I am sure their 10-20 year projections for attractions makes it very very clear they do not need AP's at all to fill the parks to the brim every single day of the year. This was inevitable.

If AP's were 3k a year, they would still be stupid and not worth it to disney. So imagine what they think of that $900.

 

[ellbell]

Let's just stop and look at this logically for a moment. An AP is $900 for a FL resident. Assume they go twice a month, that is $37 per trip to the park(excluding parking). Now assume they are bringing in food or dining before entering/leaving the park. At that point, it is literally not worth Disney's time to accommodate that customer. To have that guest taking up parking and walking around the park and filling lines and taking parade/firework spots up. I can't believe anyone here would deny that? $37 per visit to accommodate that person is LOSING money essentially for every single one of those people.

Now compare that to someone who pays full ticket price. 5 day park hoppers and eats AND stays on site in resort. I believe they would make up that entire AP in a single day and then do it again the very next day with a new guest.

If they can fill the parks with non-AP's just the same as they could WITH AP's? How in the world can you possibly make the argument for them to keep it? It makes zero sense at all and I can't understand why anyone would even present the other side of argument that they will keep it.

When AP's came out they had nothing. They had space mountain. The parks are now 3 times the size, fully digitized and efficient, they own Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, and Fox. Also, they have just STARTED to exploit the Marvel brands in the parks. I am sure their 10-20 year projections for attractions makes it very very clear they do not need AP's at all to fill the parks to the brim every single day of the year. This was inevitable.

What was inevitable? Nothing has happened. Everything said is pure speculation at this point.

 

[w84no1]

Let's just stop and look at this logically for a moment. An AP is $900 for a FL resident. Assume they go twice a month, that is $37 per trip to the park(excluding parking). Now assume they are bringing in food or dining before entering/leaving the park. At that point, it is literally not worth Disney's time to accommodate that customer. To have that guest taking up parking and walking around the park and filling lines and taking parade/firework spots up. I can't believe anyone here would deny that? $37 per visit to accommodate that person is LOSING money essentially for every single one of those people.

Now compare that to someone who pays full ticket price. 5 day park hoppers and eats AND stays on site in resort. I believe they would make up that entire AP in a single day and then do it again the very next day with a new guest.

If they can fill the parks with non-AP's just the same as they could WITH AP's? How in the world can you possibly make the argument for them to keep it? It makes zero sense at all and I can't understand why anyone would even present the other side of argument that they will keep it.

When AP's came out they had nothing. They had space mountain. The parks are now 3 times the size, they own Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, and Fox. They can fill the parks no matter what, and why would they fill them with people paying $37 when they could fill them with people paying 5 times that?? called math.

That might be true for most of the FL residents, that is not true for out of state APs.

With APs, I get 2 rooms and come for 3 ten night trips with in the 12 months. I buy 2-3 meals and snacks in park/Disney Springs every day.

Without APs, I get 2 rooms for 1 ten night stay with the same expenditure for food or day.

So Disney doesn't get 20 nights of me paying for rooms or eating while there.

 

[mackmack]

What was inevitable? Nothing has happened. Everything said is pure speculation at this point.

It's a reference to Thanos in End Game(disney owned btw). The idea that this loss leading monetary and ticket policy would come to an end is INEVITABLE as it relates to the cost/benefits ratio to shareholders. Perhaps you would prefer unsustainable in terms of fiduciary logic.

 

[ellbell]

That might be true for most of the FL residents, that is not true for out of state APs.

With APs, I get 2 rooms and come for 3 ten night trips with in the 12 months. I buy 2-3 meals and snacks in park/Disney Springs every day.

Without APs, I get 2 rooms for 1 ten night stay with the same expenditure for food or day.

So Disney doesn't get 20 nights of me paying for rooms or eating while there.

This is me as well. I live in Canada. Because I have an AP I have a 10 night stay planned for September, a week in December and another week during Festival of the Arts. And that is just what I have already planned. Without the AP I would maybe have gone for a week on in that same time period and eaten exclusively at quick service or offsite but I find value in my AP discount so now will schedule sit down meals for every one of my trips.

 

[ellbell]

It's a reference to Thanos in End Game(disney owned btw). The idea that this loss leading monetary and ticket policy would come to an end is INEVITABLE as it relates to the cost/benefits ratio to shareholders. Perhaps you would prefer unsustainable in terms of fiduciary logic.

Your speculation doesn't make things true. You can't even say for certain that it is a loss for Disney. You continue to insist that it's ending while Disney continues to sell passes. The fact that it was a circus when they decided to refund passholders who wished to cancel last year leads me to believe that refunding passholders again isn't really something that works well for them. Why continue selling something of it would be a huge financial loss to refund.

 

[mackmack]

That might be true for most of the FL residents, that is not true for out of state APs.

The assumption being if AP's are rescinded they lose your business?

I contend they would fill your spot with someone exactly like you willing to pay full ticket price just the same. (like me, who has 15 days already paid for before the end of the year on three separate 5 day park hoppers)

I contend they have no problems filling the parks and do not need the AP incentive at all and that this curve will only accelerate the more they exploit their investments in Marvel/Star Wars as well as cutting all the "fat" and inefficiencies associated with truly connecting and digitizing the park experience. Such as making it easier to book a vacation and transact with just your phone.

 

[w84no1]

The assumption being if AP's are rescinded they lose your business?

I contend they would fill your spot with someone exactly like you willing to pay full ticket price just the same. (like me, who has 15 days already paid for before the end the of the year on three separate 5 day park hoppers)

I contend they have no problems filling the parks and do not need the AP incentive at all and that this curve will only accelerate the more they exploit their investments in Marvel/Star Wars as well as cutting all the "fat" and inefficiencies associated with truly connecting and digitizing the park experience. Such as make it easier and easier to book a vacation and transact with just your phone.

But they don't fill my spot. They don't fill rooms at 100% capacity that is why they do so many discounts. With my AP, I go with or without a promotion.

 

[ford91exploder]

The assumption being if AP's are rescinded they lose your business?

I contend they would fill your spot with someone exactly like you willing to pay full ticket price just the same. (like me, who has 15 days already paid for before the end of the year on three separate 5 day park hoppers)

I contend they have no problems filling the parks and do not need the AP incentive at all and that this curve will only accelerate the more they exploit their investments in Marvel/Star Wars as well as cutting all the "fat" and inefficiencies associated with truly connecting and digitizing the park experience. Such as making it easier to book a vacation and transact with just your phone.

Disney will indeed fill the parks for a time but thats when the other edge of the double edged sword will begin to cut.
People will be writing they went to Disney this supposedly magical place and all they did was stand in lines in the hot sun and were nickle and dimed the whole time they were there not to mention the only table for their QS meal was the top of a trash can.

Once that reaches critical mass park attendance will crash.

Their new slogan ‘Disney where memories are created’ is ironic because I forecast many unforgettable events, Most of which Disney will wish for some MIB neuralyzers to wipe out recollection before it hits Facebook....

as for Star Wars, that once evergreen IP is dead the Star Wars toys are to be found in the ‘Final Markdown’ bin at the local big box cuz nobody want Disney’s take on Star Wars.

Marvel will eventually join them once Disney manages to drive Keivin Feige out of the studios, that will happen once Chapek becomes CEO and realizes that Keven could do bobs job with both hands tied behind his back

 

[mackmack]

Disney will indeed fill the parks for a time but that's when the other edge of the double edged sword will begin to cut.

Not sure I understand the correlation between removing AP's and there being any difference between what type of guests are filling the parks(Ap/full price tickets). Capacity is capacity as far as Disney is concerned.

The nickel and diming has been around for a long time, last I looked it costs $4.50 for a single bottle of water at disney today. For comparison you can buy 40 bottles of water for $3.50 at costco right now.

This trend of squeezing people in every possible way(see magical express) is not going away, Disney will do as much as they possible can get away with and they have some of the best and brightest people on payroll making sure they never tip that fulcrum point of negativity while maximizing profits. This is the fundamental basis of my thesis that AP's will be dissolved completely in the coming months.

 

[ellbell]

Not sure I understand the correlation between removing AP's and there being any difference between what type of guests are filling the parks(Ap/full price tickets). Capacity is capacity as far as Disney is concerned.

The nickel and diming has been around for a long time, last I looked it costs $4.50 for a single bottle of water at disney today. For comparison you can buy 40 bottles of water for $3.50 at costco right now.

This trend of squeezing people in every possible way(see magical express) is not going away, Disney will do as much as they possible can get away with and they have some of the best and brightest people on payroll making sure they never tip that fulcrum point of negativity while maximizing profits. This is the fundamental basis of my thesis that AP's will be dissolved completely in the coming months.

Disney never reaches capacity so the spots left empty by AP holders will always be empty. Disney hasn't been turning people away at the gate. Even a resident who goes mulitiple times a month makes more money for Disney than that same resident who might go once a year without an AP.

I live less than an hour from a theme park one year I bought APs and we went almost every weekend and spent no less than 100 bucks in the park every time we went. I haven't been back since them and have no intentions of going so they have not received any of that income but not once have they turned someone away cause of capacity meaning my spot wasn't filled.

 

[CaptAwesome]

Sorry, but has Jim Hill become a reliable source? From what I remember, he has been wrong over the years way more than he has been right. I used to read his stuff religiously over a decade ago and very little of it verified as fact.

Maybe it’s my wishful thinking that I’ll soon be able to get an AP that just doesn’t want to believe it either.