Any electricians out here? Update post#19

[daughtersrus]

I've got a question.

We've been in a heat wave the last few days. Our central air has been on since Thur or Friday last week. It's set on auto at 78.

Today I noticed that the lights and exhaust fan in our master bath and hall bath (both upstairs) as well as the light in the master closet are dim and the bath fans don't sound like they are running at full speed. While I was sorting laundry, the lights in the master bath did go back to full strength.

I've called Com Ed (our power company) and they said that they don't have any other complaints but that they will send someone out when they can to check their end. The Chicago area has lost power a lot in the last few weeks with a few storms but we never did.

All of the lines in our subdivision are underground. Our house was built in 1988 and by code all of the wires inside our house are in conduit if that matters.


It's in the 90's outside right now so I'm hoping that it's just a stress on the power lines and not something that we need to hire someone to fix.

 

[Baileymouse]

Your area is probably experiencing rolling brownouts to prevent a blackout. No worries, once the temps go down things will return to normal.

 

[woodkins]

Are all of the items you are having problems with on the same circuits? That is one way you can isolate the problem. Typcially during a heat wave there will be problems with power supply and you will run into issues like you are describing. Since it isn't a dangerous situation I would wait until the heat wave is over and see if you still have the problem.

 

[ilovemk76]

Your area is probably experiencing rolling brownouts to prevent a blackout. No worries, once the temps go down things will return to normal.

Bingo. These extreme temps are taxing the generating capacity of the power plants.

Are all of the items you are having problems with on the same circuits? That is one way you can isolate the problem. Typcially during a heat wave there will be problems with power supply and you will run into issues like you are describing. Since it isn't a dangerous situation I would wait until the heat wave is over and see if you still have the problem.

The A/C would have to be on a circuit by itself. The master bathroom and hall bathroom would have to be on different circuits.

 

[goofystitchfan]

DH is a master electrician and he said all air conditioners should be on a separate circuit or breaker.

 

[golfgal]

I would turn off everything you don't absolutely need--lights, fans, etc. Don't run the dishwasher, don't wash clothes, etc. until after 9 PM or so. Reduce other electrical usage so your AC can work.

 

[daughtersrus]

We've lost complete power to 1/2 of our house.

This happened a few years ago in the winter. One of our underground lines needed to be replaced because Comcast nicked it when they were punching through the fiber optic line for their cable.

Of course the things that are not working include the air conditioner, our fridge in the kitchen and our standup freezer in the basement.

I'm on hold with Com Ed now. We'll see what they have to say.

 

[goofystitchfan]

We've lost complete power to 1/2 of our house.

This happened a few years ago in the winter. One of our underground lines needed to be replaced because Comcast nicked it when they were punching through the fiber optic line for their cable.

Of course the things that are not working include the air conditioner, our fridge in the kitchen and our standup freezer in the basement.

I'm on hold with Com Ed now. We'll see what they have to say.

Ugh.... well they say don't open the fridge and/or freezer and you will be ok. Hope it all works out. Sending some pixie dust your way.

 

[j's m]

We've lost complete power to 1/2 of our house.

This happened a few years ago in the winter. One of our underground lines needed to be replaced because Comcast nicked it when they were punching through the fiber optic line for their cable.

Of course the things that are not working include the air conditioner, our fridge in the kitchen and our standup freezer in the basement.

I'm on hold with Com Ed now. We'll see what they have to say.

I was about to say someone got your underground line and you said it first. We have underground and at the street we've had the same problems three times. They would come and fix it and water would get into the fix and it would go out again. Supposedly the last time they got it right.

The reason half the house goes out could be one line of the three phase is bad and all the important stuff can't run. We would also lose our water pump. Good luck.

 

[daughtersrus]

Thanks everyone!

They said that they had to open a new ticket now that the problem is different from when I called earlier when the lights were just dim. He couldn't tell me if that means that it will be longer or not for someone to come out.


He did say that even after they come out, if it's underground like he thinks it is, it could be a few days before it's fixed.

I did tell him that my DD is disabled and has breathing problems (she's at school now) and he said to go get some box fans. Blowing 90+ degree air around won't help her. We'll have to go to a hotel or my FIL house.

A neighbor offered to use her basement fridge but DH said that if it's not back on when he leave work, he'll get the generator from his brother's house.

Last time it happened was when the snow was melting and got into the line but the last time it rained here was over a week ago and it wasn't much. It's so dry that we have cracks in the dirt like the desert.

 

[j's m]

Wow, I guess we were lucky, they came out within a couple of hours and fixed the underground immediately. I would really give them a hard time about getting it done today, say it was their fault that it wasn't fixed right before.

 

[BellvilleDad]

I was about to say someone got your underground line and you said it first. We have underground and at the street we've had the same problems three times. They would come and fix it and water would get into the fix and it would go out again. Supposedly the last time they got it right.

The reason half the house goes out could be one line of the three phase is bad and all the important stuff can't run. We would also lose our water pump. Good luck.

I wouldn't expect them to have three phase power in their home, unless they specifically requested it. Even single phase 220v can show "brownout" symptoms if one leg of the 220v is lost in an older house with older wiring.

Good luck!

 

[golfgal]

This might be a silly question but did you check your circuit breakers to see if any of them are tripped?

 

[daughtersrus]

I wouldn't expect them to have three phase power in their home, unless they specifically requested it. Even single phase 220v can show "brownout" symptoms if one leg of the 220v is lost in an older house with older wiring.

Good luck!

I believe that we have two lines underground coming to the house. It's pretty random as to what isn't working. The wall that the fridge is on doesn't work but everything else in the kitchen does. My laundry room which is right behind the fridge works as does the 1/2 bath but the front hall light doesn't. (all down the same hall). The bathrooms upstairs do not work and neither does our bedroom but the other bedrooms and loft are fine. Same randomness in the basement.

At the suggestion of a neighbor, I plugged in the fridge to another outlet in the kitchen and the freezer in the basement to another outlet via heavy duty extension cords so they are working.

This might be a silly question but did you check your circuit breakers to see if any of them are tripped?

Yes. That was the first thing that I checked. I hoped that was the problem it wasn't. I'm sure that they're going to have to come in and dig up our backyard to get the line fixed. It's just a matter of how long that will take.

 

[nordkin]

Thanks everyone!

They said that they had to open a new ticket now that the problem is different from when I called earlier when the lights were just dim. He couldn't tell me if that means that it will be longer or not for someone to come out.


He did say that even after they come out, if it's underground like he thinks it is, it could be a few days before it's fixed.

I did tell him that my DD is disabled and has breathing problems (she's at school now) and he said to go get some box fans. Blowing 90+ degree air around won't help her. We'll have to go to a hotel or my FIL house.

A neighbor offered to use her basement fridge but DH said that if it's not back on when he leave work, he'll get the generator from his brother's house.

Last time it happened was when the snow was melting and got into the line but the last time it rained here was over a week ago and it wasn't much. It's so dry that we have cracks in the dirt like the desert.

As someone who works for an electric company, this response is totally unacceptable. They can run a temporay line to your neighbors house if it is close enough. It does not affect your neighbors billing, it just pulls the power from the company side lines to the house. There is also something called a service saver that we use when we can not run a temporary. There is no reason they should not be able to come out and fix what is referred to as a cable fault within 24 hours unless they are having major outages on their system. Place a call to the customer relations dept of the company and tell them you would like this resolved asap or you will be calling the state corporation commission or public service commission, thay are called different things depending on your state. No utility wants calls to the commission as they investigate everyone and they access fines to the company if the company is determined to be in the wrong.

 

[GeorgeG]

It does sound like one of the legs in the service is failing. That can be somewhere in the run or the connection at either end, or even in your electric panel. Connections are an easy fix and the service itself may or may not be, depending on how it's run. Your 240v appliances will be much less efficient because they need both hot legs. If you can get by without the AC for a few days, it will put less demand on the leg that's failing so at least the 120v equipment might run better. There adapters the company can install in your meter pan that will feed both 120v sides of your breaker panel from the good leg, but none of your 240v appliances will work. BYW, nominal voltages are 120/240 volts. 110/220 is below industry standards, which usually call for 120/240 + - 4-5%. Rolling voltage reduction ("brownouts") must be sanctioned by state regulatory commisions that also set the specific voltage parameters by state. I had three state commisions (NY, NJ, PA) to answer to and they were each a little different so we just went with the strictest (NJ). Basically, for a 120v service it needs to be between 116v and 124v to be accepteble.

 

[j's m]

I wouldn't expect them to have three phase power in their home, unless they specifically requested it. Even single phase 220v can show "brownout" symptoms if one leg of the 220v is lost in an older house with older wiring.

Good luck!

You're right, I was thinking of the 3 phase we have at work. It's only 2 legs for 220/240?

 

[woodkins]

Bingo. These extreme temps are taxing the generating capacity of the power plants.





The A/C would have to be on a circuit by itself. The master bathroom and hall bathroom would have to be on different circuits.

As a licensed electrician I can tell you that the A/C and bathrooms SHOULD (and need to be) on different circuits but having worked in many residential homes where lots of homeowners have played electrician it is very often NOT the case

 

[daughtersrus]

I thought that I'd post an update.

It turned out not to be a problem with our underground lines after all. A repair crew from the power company came out about 7:30 last night. They said that we had full power. They laid another neutral line above ground and it didn't help. They generally don't do anything inside the house but they told DH that if he took off the cover to our box inside, they would come and look. Sure enough the electric buss bar was fried. They checked each of the circuits for power. Every other one was fine (I think it was 124) and the others were at 2 or 3 that is why we had power to some and not to the others. I think that we have 18 all together. The main was melted to the back as were two others. They disconnected the meter outside for us. DH and a friend replaced the entire box. After a trip to Menards and another to Home Depot, they finished about 12:45 this morning.

We are REALLY lucky that our house didn't catch on fire.

 

[ilovemk76]

I thought that I'd post an update.

It turned out not to be a problem with our underground lines after all. A repair crew from the power company came out about 7:30 last night. They said that we had full power. They laid another neutral line above ground and it didn't help. They generally don't do anything inside the house but they told DH that if he took off the cover to our box inside, they would come and look. Sure enough the electric buss bar was fried. They checked each of the circuits for power. Every other one was fine (I think it was 124) and the others were at 2 or 3 that is why we had power to some and not to the others. I think that we have 18 all together. The main was melted to the back as were two others. They disconnected the meter outside for us. DH and a friend replaced the entire box. After a trip to Menards and another to Home Depot, they finished about 12:45 this morning.

We are REALLY lucky that our house didn't catch on fire.

What is the amp service that you have with the power company and what is the size of your box. It appears that you are pulling too much current and may need to increase your service.

Older homes use to put in 100 amp service. Newer homes put in 200 amp service with many putting in 300 amp service.