Another question for the Gurus!

[ColleenG]

I've been checking out some EXIF data on flickr. I get that the first "exposure" listed is the shutter speed. But what is the difference between the exposure that is listed as +/-# compared to explosure bias that is listed as EV? Thanks for the help guys.

 

[ColleenG]

One other question, when shooting Wishes do you spot meter on the castle or set for evaluative metering? Illuminations evaluative since there is no one focal point until the globe comes out?

 

[VVFF]

One other question, when shooting Wishes do you spot meter on the castle or set for evaluative metering? Illuminations evaluative since there is no one focal point until the globe comes out?

As with all things photography there is no one right answer. However, I would spot meter on the cancel as you said as a good starting point to make sure you don't overexpose that.

 

[ColleenG]

Thanks! I'm not sure if we are even going to get to see Wishes on this trip an So if I do catch it, it will be my one and only chance. Darn MVMCP is going on any night we don't have other plans and we just couldn't fit it in the budget. (I need a pouty lip smily for here!)

 

[Gdad]

I think the exposure +/- is if you pushed or pulled the exposure in post processing- the exposure bias is what you did in camera- such as -0.3 EV.

I shoot Wishes in Bulb mode and usually just experiment a little bit before the show by choosing something around f/8-f/12 and holding the shutter open for like a 5-7 count and checking the histogram/display for blown highlights. Then just keep that timing in mind when shooting the bursts.

 

[boBQuincy]

One other question, when shooting Wishes do you spot meter on the castle or set for evaluative metering? Illuminations evaluative since there is no one focal point until the globe comes out?

For Wishes and Illuminations I forget about the meter and use Manual. ISO 100, f/16, and whatever shutter speed gets good "trails", usually 3 or 4 seconds. If you want the castle exposed well too then use the same ISO and aperture but adjust the shutter as required, then keep the same exposure for the fireworks (adjusting shutter and aperture together).

We feel that MVMCP has become too much $$$ for what we get, especially considering the crowd levels, so we don't plan to attend this year. My plan is to photograph Holiday Wishes from across the lagoon.

 

[ColleenG]

Where is a good spot on the lagoon to shoot Wishes? Maybe I can get away by myself to the Poly.

 

[boBQuincy]

Where is a good spot on the lagoon to shoot Wishes? Maybe I can get away by myself to the Poly.

Robo (hangs out on the park touring strategy board) shows the left side beach at Polynesian to be good, with no trees in the way. The music is even piped in!

I have some good photos from TTC, between the boat dock and the ticket windows (just to the right of the vending machines). The music is not piped in afaik, but we can sing along.

If I get there early enough I will go for the beach. If (as usual) I am running at the last minute it will be TTC, by the soft glow of the vending machines. Ah, the ambience.

 

[ColleenG]

Thanks Bob, maybe I'll see you along the beach.

 

[boBQuincy]

It looks like you are about to leave for WDW while we are not going for another week and a half. If you are still there by then look for a guy carrying a Canon Xsi and a light brown Crumpler $4MDH. I have curly brown hair that is nowhere near as dark as it once was.

Btw, my previous post is slightly incorrect, the aperture and ISO should be adjusted together to maintain proper exposure for fireworks. Shutter speed does not really affect fireworks images. Gdad's idea about using Bulb is good too, that allows us to capture as many bursts as we want, with precise timing.

 

[Bstanley]

I shoot Wishes in Bulb mode and usually just experiment a little bit before the show by choosing something around f/8-f/12 and holding the shutter open for like a 5-7 count and checking the histogram/display for blown highlights. Then just keep that timing in mind when shooting the bursts.

Is there a particular ISO setting you have found works best? Or is that a camera specific thing that would need to be part of the experimenting?

Right off the top of my head I'm thinking something like 400 for my Rebel XS, simply because I imagine it wouldn't have much noise at that setting.

I've got my remote shutter gadget, now I just need an electrified tripod to shoo away the masses...

I'll have two trys at Wishes during the trip - the 12th and 14th (according to 'Mike') so at least I'll have a bit of experience for the second try.

One issue on reviewing the first try pictures - my laptop screen is fairly washed out when it comes to colors - does anyone know if the flat screens at Coronado Springs have a computer connection (DSub15)?

 

[ColleenG]

It looks like you are about to leave for WDW while we are not going for another week and a half. If you are still there by then look for a guy carrying a Canon Xsi and a light brown Crumpler $4MDH. I have curly brown hair that is nowhere near as dark as it once was.

Btw, my previous post is slightly incorrect, the aperture and ISO should be adjusted together to maintain proper exposure for fireworks. Shutter speed does not really affect fireworks images. Gdad's idea about using Bulb is good too, that allows us to capture as many bursts as we want, with precise timing.

We'll just miss each other Bob. We will be there till the 9th. I would love to stay longer but we are pulling the kids out of school.

 

[GrillMouster]

For fireworks I expose manually. Here's how I choose my settings, in order of importance:

Shutter Speed: Control the asthetic quality of the fireworks with shutter speed. A slow shutter speed (start at around 2 or 3 seconds) will allow you to capture the full bloom of the fireworks blasts and possibly multiple blasts in the same shot. If you use a fast shutter speed, you'll only get a fraction of the fireworks burst, rather than the beautiful long trails. Don't forget to stablize your camera (use a tripod and remote shutter release). For me, shutter speed is the most important thing to control in fireworks photography. I first determine which shutter speed will give me the trails and multiple bursts that I want. Bulb mode helps me control the number of full blasts I get in the shot.

ISO: Keep the ISO low for fireworks. You only need to increase the ISO when your subject is dim and in low light. Fireworks are not dim, and they're not in low light. Actually, fireworks are a light source, and they are bright. If you use a high ISO, not only will you blow out the highlights and lose the color in the fireworks, you will also increase noise in the night sky. Let the dark sky stay dark and noise-free by keeping your ISO low. There's just no reason to increase the ISO in this scenario. Don't think of fireworks photography as "low light photography".

Aperture: For fireworks photography depth of field is not a concern. As long as you focus on infinity, everything 30ft or more from your camera (including the fireworks) will be in focus regardless of what aperture you use. I use aperture to fine tune exposure after I've selected the shutter speed that give me the trails that I want. Because the shutter speeds I use for fireworks are so long, I often need an aperture around f/8 or f/11 to get good exposure without blowing out highlights or losing color in the fireworks. It just so happens that those apertures are often the ones at which many lenses are at their sharpest.



Colleen, you mentioned spot metering the castle. Because of the long shutter speeds used for fireworks combined with the bright lights continuously hitting the castle during fireworks shows, it can be easy to blow out the castle. So, if you want to spot meter, do so off of the brightest part of the castle, and dial in +1 or +2 exposure compensation (or enough that you don't blow out important highlights). The reason you need to dial in exposure compensation is that spot metering will try to expose the image so that whatever spot you metered from will appear 18% grey. Since the castle is brighter than 18% grey, you need to dial in positive exposure compensation so that the image isn't underexposed. You want brights to be bright and darks to be dark. You'd do the same thing if you spot-metered snow, a bride's white dress, or a caucasian person's face (but the amount of positive exposure compenstion would likely be different in these scenarios).

 

[ColleenG]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Hopefully I'll get a chance to shoot some fireworks. It looks like there is a lot of rain in the forecast for the nights I might have a chance. I'll share what I get when we return.

 

[boBQuincy]

As Master Gracey says, "there's always my way...". Take the fireworks photos (ISO 100, f/11, 2-4 seconds) then when that is done set the exposure for the castle and merge the images later!

It's not cheating, it's photography! Painting with Light!

 

[ColleenG]

Some day I will learn how to use Photoshop and how to merge photos.

 

[GrillMouster]

Bob,

 

[Groucho]

One other question, when shooting Wishes do you spot meter on the castle or set for evaluative metering? Illuminations evaluative since there is no one focal point until the globe comes out?

Like others have said, you really can't pick one exposure for fireworks because it all depends on the kind of trails you want. Also, remember that during Wishes, the castle changes color and brightnesses and sometimes has moving projections on it, so a correct exposure before the show may not be the same during it - to say nothing of the light from the fireworks themselves, as was mentioned.

The "conventional wisdom" on fireworks photos is...
ISO - keep low, not just to reduce noise, but to allow a longer shutter speed.
Aperture - somewhere around F8-F11. You generally want a fairly high depth of field, especially with Disney fireworks where there you're also shooting the castle. Unfortunately GrillMouster isn't quite right (sorry) about the focus - different lenses will have different distances, you can't count on everything being in focus after 30 ft but in this case it probably will be since you're likely to be using a fairly wide angle. Ideally you would use a lens with DoF markings and set it to the hyperfocal distance, but that's getting really picky
Shutter speed - you'll be shooting in bulb mode, so it will vary
Use a good sturdy tripod and a wired remote control and you will be all set!

As for other locations - I shot Wishes from the Poly beach a few years ago, this is about what you can expect:

 

[seashoreCM]

I have never heard of exposure expressed as +/-#

A given exposure value is a single number and refers to shutter speed and aperture combinations that all admit the same amount of light from a given scene for example f/11 at 1/30/th second has the same exposure value as f/8 at 1/60'th second. (the EV for the preceding is 13.) EV may be applicable to fireworks whose entire trail is illuminated at once but not for fireworks that appear as moving spots. The bigger the number, the less light.

Exposure bias aka exposure compensation is used to intentionally make an automatic camera increase or decrease the exposure a little after the camera computed the exposure. Typical use is bringing out a dark subject on a light background. Minusing the EC decreases the light or increases the EV (number).

Start by choosing the aperture for the fireworks. Then you might want to do some test pictures of the castle with various long shutter open times to find out the limits of what you find acceptable, say between 1/2 and 4 seconds. Then you might choose to keep the shutter somewhere in that range when shooting the fireworks with the castle in the picture.

More often than not, folks overexpose the fireworks resulting in loss of color. If you choose a smaller aperture to counteract this, then you could even hold the shutter open after the fireworks decay in order that the castle get enough exposure. The other way is more difficult, if the castle is getting blown you would have to close the shutter sooner and this will limit the length of fireworks trails you get.

If you try a different aperture, you would want a different range of long shutter open times that make the castle look accpetable.

Digital camera hints: http://www.cockam.com/digicam.htm

 

[GrillMouster]

...you can't count on everything being in focus after 30 ft but in this case it probably will be since you're likely to be using a fairly wide angle.

Thanks for catching that, Groucho. I forgot to mention using a wide angle, which is what I usually use for fireworks. At focal lengths of 40mm and wider at f/11 focusing at 30 ft I get depth of field ranging from abot 13 feet in front of me to infinity. That's plenty for me.