Annual Passholders Get The Short End

[Muushka]

I cannot believe I sat here and read this entire sad sad thread. But then, I am at home just wondering what all the Dis people are fighting about again, and had to take a peek.

I am not thrilled with the way Disney has treated AP holders, which I consider some of the most loyal customers, but that is my opinion. Can't argue with that, right?

I was looking forward to staying at GF this Dec, but was unable to get the great AP rate. But it is OK. We are staying at VWL (DVC) and then off to Universal- HRH. I will enjoy giving Universal my hard earned $$ much more than giving it to WDW.

We will not be spending much at WDW this year.
Not this 'loyal' customer.

Oops, I have to edit my post. I just went to the DB and read that post about AP and loyalty. Someone wrote that holders of AP does not make them loyal, just more frequent. Yes, that poster is correct. No, I am not a loyal AP holder. I just like a bargain and am willing to shop for it.

 

[RescueRanger]

I agree Ripleysmom. If you book hoping for discounts down the road, Disney sees these rooms as being filled. If someone's situation allows them to, they should wait as long as they can so that Disney has a more accurate reading on their occupancy level.

 

[iwannabeminnie]

Am I naive or what?

It honestly never crossed my mind that people would book a room "hoping" to get a good rate on that room later. I have been planning our upcoming trip for almost a year. My two sons are flying to Orlando to meet us (one from Texas Tech Univeristy, one from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba). I waited until the boys were POSITIVE when they would be able to come before I booked the rooms. We were so lucky that Disney extended the Fairy Tale Package. Believe me I crunched numbers day and night for weeks using AP, Military Discount (my son's), and every other option. Silly me, I didn't know that I could book a room for every week in a two month period waiting to see which one would work for me.

I anticipate that DQ, PI, and the Water Parks will get a chunk of our time, so the UPH's in the Fairy Tale Package make sense to me. However, my husband, daughter and I have had AP's for the past 2 trips. Is Disney going to get mad and me because I didn't renew? After all, I bought them in the past and they expected me to buy them again. I always have before. Or are they going to understand that I made the best choice for my given situation? I have to agree that to be angry over an assumed discount is not logical, just as it would not be logical for Disney to be angry at me over an assumed renewal.

 

[Gabrielle]

The idea of AP holders being partially to blame for the lack of discounts due to booking rooms hoping for a discount, is - in my humble opinion - without merit. Business marketing practices rely on customer behavior - intended or, otherwise. I'm having a hard time working up sympathy for Disney's marketing department because their pesky customers aren't responding the way they should.

I'm sure Disney realizes that a certain percentage of bookings will evaporate if discounts - whether AP or codes - don't materialize. It isn't an AP's "fault" for booking a room they don't intend to hold if a discount isn't offered. That's good business sense and good vacation planning on the part of the AP.

Nor do I agree that Disney cost-cutting practices are right-a-roony because "Disney is a business." Not all cost-cutting practices represent good business practices and not all cost-cutting practices result in increased shareholder wealth.

So, while I'm a huge Disney fan and will most likely continue to visit, I continue to be outraged by Eisners' compensation package; continue to be saddened by Disney cutbacks; and will not stay in a Disney resort without discounts.

 

[year2late]

Originally posted by Gabrielle
The idea of AP holders being partially to blame for the lack of discounts due to booking rooms hoping for a discount, is - in my humble opinion - without merit.

How could people booking rooms NOT have an effect on the number of AP discounts offered? They offer the discounts to boost business, so the more rooms they have up for grabs the more readily available the discounts.

 

[ripleysmom]

"The idea of AP holders being partially to blame for the lack of discounts due to booking rooms hoping for a discount, is - in my humble opinion - without merit."

You are entitled to believe that if you want.


"Business marketing practices rely on customer behavior - intended or, otherwise."

Okay....how many people have cancelled their ressies because they did not get the AP discounts? I don't think anyone on this thread has but could be wrong. People with plane tickets probably haven't cancelled either.


"I'm having a hard time working up sympathy for Disney's marketing department because their pesky customers aren't responding the way they should."

I don't believe anyone on this thread was asking for sympathy for the marketing department but I might have missed that too.


"I'm sure Disney realizes that a certain percentage of bookings will evaporate if discounts - whether AP or codes - don't materialize."

Those bookings evaporate at a much faster rate though when AP rates are offered. Then people switch hotels and change things around.


"It isn't an AP's "fault" for booking a room they don't intend to hold if a discount isn't offered. That's good business sense and good vacation planning on the part of the AP."

Where did I say it was that an AP holder could not book a room that they didn't intend to use? What I said was that they should not complain that there are no discounts at that resort since Disney sees no problem with the projected occupancy level of the hotel and so does not feel as though AP rates need to be offered.


"Nor do I agree that Disney cost-cutting practices are right-a-roony because "Disney is a business." Not all cost-cutting practices represent good business practices and not all cost-cutting practices result in increased shareholder wealth."

I don't believe that anyone on this thread proposed anything like that. Most people feel as though Disney can do what they want, they are in business to make money. If you don't approve of that then let them know with your wallet.


"So, while I'm a huge Disney fan and will most likely continue to visit, I continue to be outraged by Eisners' compensation package; continue to be saddened by Disney cutbacks; and will not stay in a Disney resort without discounts."

That is your choice. However, it might be a good idea to remember that some of the discounts that people are receiving could be what caused the cutbacks to begin with.

 

[FayeW]

Am I missing something? If you can't get the room you want for a reasonable price (i.e a price you are willing to pay) then stay somewhere else! It isn't like an AP REQUIRES you to stay onsite, does it? I mean, seriously, where is your "magical" experience if you are going to spend the whole time in a funk over how much you had to pay for the priviledge?
Nitram, I understand you have a wedding planned, how about staying at your resort of choice for the couple of nights surrounding the wedding, and then moving to more wallet-friendly accomodations before/after the big event?

 

[hulabird]

Ripleysmom-

good points.

I'm just not understanding why some people keep going on and on here when Webmaster Penny said to stop it. I guess they didn't see her post.

 

[gepetto]

Originally posted by hulabird


I'm just not understanding why some people keep going on and on here when Webmaster Penny said to stop it.

Gotta love the armchair moderators.

 

[Rick Walmsley]

Hi all

Would just like to throw my bit into the pot regarding this issue.

To say that I am disappointed with Disney would be an understatement and I will explain why.

Yesterday I returned from 30 days in Florida which was fantastic.

To cut a long story short this trip took me 8 years to save and plan for. For the last two years I have trawled these and similar boards in order to get the best VALUE FOR MONEY that I could. I would like to thank all of you on these boards that played a large part in making this holiday wonderful. My expectations were therefore high and on the whole they were met or exceeded with a few notable exceptions.

Back to the main issue. When researching the trip I knew that, for part of it, I wanted to stay at one of the Deluxe Disney resorts-in particular The Animal Kingdom Lodge. It was clear from these and other boards that the best way to go about this was to purchase an annual pass and hope to get a good discount on the room rate. I accept that these were not guaranteed but to be honest they haven't exactly been hard to come by for the last two years.

Anyway I made a booking for AKL for the last 4 days of my holiday(that last special treat) at a rate of $300+ a night(this is AUG25th-29th). An A/p rate of @$190 was already out for dates prior to this(ie until 24th Aug when it is busier). This last week of Aug has also recently been the start of "value Season" due to a drop in attendance etc

I did not think it unreasonable that come 25th Aug that I would likely get (I accept not guaranteed) a rate of $190 or less.

I arrived in Orlando 30th July and had to make a decision. Do I buy an annual pass(premium) cost $520 or do I buy a 30 day fun in the sun pass $300(which is effectively the same as an A/P with the exception of no free parking but did include a free character breakfast).

All indications were that A/P rates would still be released albeit people were getting nervous due to the fact that they hadn't been released.

So I bought the annual pass.

I had made the disney booking via dreams unlimited (no complaints here - excellent service) and although I had very limited access to my E-mail they kept me up to date that A/P rate not yet released.

So I rang CRO a couple of times while I was in Orlando regarding my booking on 25th Aug and A/p rates and was told they hadn't been released YET

The implication being that they would be released

So I was not happy at all when I checked in to find no rate reduction.

Now this is what I am annoyed about because within Disney's management they must have been aware for some considerable time that no rates would be released for this period.

Obviously had I known there would have been no rate for this period then I would have altered my dates to take advantage of the rates for dates prior to my arrival ( because it wasn't essential to stay for my last 4 days merely desirable) or I would not have bought an annual pass either way saving a considerable amount of money.

What I'm trying to get over is the fact that Disney had implied (I accept not guaranteed) that a rate would appear and it did not. This cost me money, more importantly it annoyed me which in turn had a negative effect on my stay at one of their resorts.

I felt CONNED.

Yes Disney is a business and in the short term they have maximised the amount of money they have made out of me.

I am but a small fish in a very large pond and will probably only ever have the chance to influence a 100 or so colleagues and friends who will visit Disney.

If you were a Disney shareholder which scenario do you think will maximise Disneys's profits in the future; the one where I tell them that the service I had from Disney was excellent or the one where I tell them that I felt they conned me.

Not a hard one to figure out is it!

Rick

 

[year2late]

I am sorry you felt conned.

But one thing I see on a regular basis is that these wonderful boards build peoples expectations. I think of the multiple posts about towel animals, They are a neat thing. And after you read 20 threads about everyone that got them, readers begin to think why not me, I am just as loyal as they are. Then they become disappointed that they did not recieve what everyone else is getting.

The same thing with discounts. After reading on the boards for several years about the AP discounts folks come to expect them....even though Disneys own language is "may be offered"

$520 dollars is alot to pay without knowing the rules and limitation as put forth by WDW.

 

[wdwdvcdad]

I haven't read the entire thread. But, I have read enough to know the major arguements on both sides. The point that I want to make concerns the idea of "past practices". I know that this is not a collective bargaining session or anything, but we, as disney consumers, have grown accustomed to these AP rates because disney has consistently made these rates available. So, when they stop making them so readily available, yes, people get disappointed, and rightfully so. Rationally so, maybe not, if you want to break this down into contract & ecconomic terms, but nevertheless, I feel the disappointment is justified. I buy the annual pass under the assumption that there will be AP rates available for rooms. Is it a guarantee? Of course not, but past practices has made it an expectation. Will I go if they are not available? Yes. Will my trip be less "magical"? Probably. I will have to cut back somewhere else. Will my family still have a great time? Of course. But, The more I notice the cutbacks, the more disappointing it is.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by wdwdvcdad
I haven't read the entire thread. But, I have read enough to know the major arguements on both sides. The point that I want to make concerns the idea of "past practices". I know that this is not a collective bargaining session or anything, but we, as disney consumers, have grown accustomed to these AP rates because disney has consistently made these rates available. So, when they stop making them so readily available, yes, people get disappointed, and rightfully so. Rationally so, maybe not, if you want to break this down into contract & ecconomic terms, but nevertheless, I feel the disappointment is justified. I buy the annual pass under the assumption that there will be AP rates available for rooms. Is it a guarantee? Of course not, but past practices has made it an expectation. Will I go if they are not available? Yes. Will my trip be less "magical"? Probably. I will have to cut back somewhere else. Will my family still have a great time? Of course. But, The more I notice the cutbacks, the more disappointing it is.

The disappointment in discounts not being offered after being offered for a period of time, was one of the main reasons Disney never wanted to offer discounted rooms to begin with.

They were fully aware of the backlash affect.

Also as stated by others, Disney only offers discounts to fill empty rooms. A booked room is a nonempty room to them. However they are aware that many people double book. Guests book a room they can not afford unless they get a discount, and they book a room they can afford without discount.

This practice of booking a room a guest has no intention of keeping unless the guest gets a discounts definitely affects their inventory of occupancy rates.

However since they are aware guests do this, holding discounts until the last possible moment is a way of dealing with this.

So many times at Disney the very problems that the guests complain most about, are caused by the guest themselves.

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by Rick Walmsley
To say that I am disappointed with Disney would be an understatement and I will explain why....

Anyway I made a booking for AKL for the last 4 days of my holiday(that last special treat) at a rate of $300+ a night(this is AUG25th-29th). An A/p rate of @$190 was already out for dates prior to this(ie until 24th Aug when it is busier). This last week of Aug has also recently been the start of "value Season" due to a drop in attendance etc

I did not think it unreasonable that come 25th Aug that I would likely get (I accept not guaranteed) a rate of $190 or less.

I arrived in Orlando 30th July and had to make a decision. Do I buy an annual pass(premium) cost $520 or do I buy a 30 day fun in the sun pass $300(which is effectively the same as an A/P with the exception of no free parking but did include a free character breakfast).

All indications were that A/P rates would still be released albeit people were getting nervous due to the fact that they hadn't been released.

So I bought the annual pass.

So I rang CRO a couple of times while I was in Orlando regarding my booking on 25th Aug and A/p rates and was told they hadn't been released YET

The implication being that they would be released

So I was not happy at all when I checked in to find no rate reduction...

What I'm trying to get over is the fact that Disney had implied (I accept not guaranteed) that a rate would appear and it did not. This cost me money, more importantly it annoyed me which in turn had a negative effect on my stay at one of their resorts.

I felt CONNED.

With all due respect, Rick, I think you conned yourself. You took a gamble, and lost. Your distinction between "implied" and "not guaranteed" is quite thin. You were surprised when you checked in? And that annoyed you? You should have cancelled your reservation and stayed elsewhere (in fact, as others have pointed out, if you didn't want to pay the rate you originally got, you shouldn't have made that reservation at all).

In any event, since you spent 30 days in FL, I certainly hope you got more than the 8 days in the Disney parks which would make the AP a value in its own right.

And hulabird, Penny didn't lock the thread, she just wanted us to play nice.

 

[hulabird]

I realize that, I meant that some people were continuing NOT to play nice.

 

[FayeW]

Rick, I cannot understand why you feel "conned". If I read this thread correctly, AP rates have, in fact, been offered, just not for the dates YOU wanted them for. You have stated that you understand that the discounts were not guaranteed, and took exception to the CM's comment that AP rates had not been announced YET ( the implication being that they would be announced/offered at some point). Well, they have been offered, just not for your dates. You took a chance when you booked your dates without AP rates available; unfortunately it didn't work out for you. Someone who took the same chance you did, for dates later in the year, may be thrilled with the outcome.

 

[gepetto]

CONNED? How were you conned? You still have 11 months left of unlimited park admission. You got exactly what you paid for.

 

[peaches]

Called this morning and NO ap rates for Sept. 03. They had Ap rates till Aug 31st and new ones for Oct 1st .

 

[BadgerBruce]

I love WDW & purchase PAP's for all of our trips. We go late April one year, then early April the next. This means there is over a year when we don't hold an AP. This practice makes sense for us financially & that is all I expect out of my PAP-20 days unlimited admission. Sometimes we make an extra trip on the year when we have the pass. Would I make that extra trip if I couldn't get AP rates? Probably not, but the amount of days of admission I get out of the pass is why I bought it-not for the room discounts. Disney does what they have to do to make a profit & we do what is best for us. To me it makes no sense to complain when someone is lucky enough to:

Get a postcard offering a great deal

Be upgraded to a different level resort when the one they booked is being renovated

Get a great package deal that hopefully will help all of us by gradually bringing back longer park hours, better service, less dining places & rides open only seasonally, etc.

I've already purchased my PAP vouchers for next Spring's trip, but will gladly hold them for another time if, for some strange reason (discounts are rarely offered this time of year), they want to start up the FTP again!
As far as booking before AP rates are announced-I'm sure many of us can remember a time when if you didn't book pretty far in advance there was a good chance no rooms would be available. I don't feel anyone should double book, but find nothing wrong with reserving a room at a rate you can afford & switching to a different rate if you can get it.

 

[Hayley]

Originally posted by Gabrielle
I'm having a hard time working up sympathy for Disney's marketing department because their pesky customers aren't responding the way they should.

<b>Thank you</b>!!!! You get my "VOICE OF REASON" award for today.