And You Thought Digital Was Confusing?!

[annnewjerz]

Another purchase I can blame on Jeff

For the past few weeks, I have been agonizing over what to get my cousin for her going away party and Jeff unknowingly helped me figure it out. She will be leaving NJ to attend the University of Hawaii in a week. I couldn't afford a new (or even used) surfboard for her and I didn't want to give her cash. I wanted to get her something cool and different, something cheap, something she could enjoy out in Hawaii on a college student's part-time pay.

So.........

..............I bought her a Holga. And while I was at it, for only $27 I figured I should buy myself one too, since I didn't get that new lens I had been wanting recently.


Here is where the embarassing part begins.

I'm 25 years old and other than disposable cameras and polaroid instants (does that even count as film? ) I have NEVER used film in my life. This is sad, I am aware.

I popped open the camera box, got all the parts sorted and then started reading things like film masks, film advance knob and frame number pointer and immediately thought that I should send this thing back. It was all waaaaay too complex for me.

I somehow managed to load the film and get it on the take-up spool and didn't see any number appearing in the little red window on the back as I cranked away. I kept turning and turning and still nothing. I thought to myself that maybe I got a dud roll of film or maybe I'm just an idiot. Turns out it was neither, I was just impatient because after what seemed like 20 full turns the numbers started.

Now that I'm all set up, using this little plastic POS on my lunch break has been fun. I can only imagine where I'm going to get 120 film developed and how much it'll cost per roll of 12 images, but I'll worry about that later.

Who would have thought that digital would be less confusing than film? Not me, that's for sure.

 

[Gdad]

Okay- first off remember YouTube is your friend. I never used 120 Film before getting a Holga either but do a quick search for what you want- there are a lot of resources online. The first roll or two was a little confusing but after that you get it figured out without too much effort.

What kind of film did you get? If you bought color film (or BW400CN) that is C-41 processing most photo-center machines will take it- I get mine done in 1-Hour at Sam's Club for $1.50 a roll. Of course not all photo-center workers know how to deal with it- finding one who does may take some calling around. They also probably can't scan or print it either- I scan my own and rarely print anything anyway. B&W silver film they can't usually do in either 120 or 35mm anymore anyway and have to send it off to a lab- so I do that myself. If you want to have even MORE fun with film now THAT is fun. My kids think I am some kind of mad scientist now mixing up chemicals in the kitchen sink.

Congrats on the Holga by the way- There is a great Film Forum on Nikon Cafe and quite a few Holga and Film groups on Flickr. Here's a few links:

http://www.nikoncafe.com/vforums/forumdisplay.php?f=151

http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootfilm/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/holgagraphy/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/sprocket_holes/

 

[Gdad]

All this Holga talk I should add a few pictures~

Taken with built-in blue flash gel

 

[annnewjerz]

Alright, Jeff---I've got about a million questions/comments for you. I would PM you, but for anyone else who is as influenced by Jeff's cool purchases as I am, I have decided to make my questions public. Plus, my cousin is only 18, so I'm going to definitely have to teach her all about the camera, which I'm not ready at all to do.

1. YouTube is my friend. I used it to figure out how to properly use that 35mm film adapter that I bought with the camera---I just I just never thought anyone would be so bored that they would make a video of how to load film into a camera.

2. I got Fuji Reala, some Kodak TMax400 (I think that's what it's called, box is at home but it's B&W film) and some "normal" color film. Any particular film that you would recommend? Being from the digital generation---I wouldn't know one kind from another, I just bought what seemed cheap.

3. Okay so Sam's Club can probably develop my film, but not print or scan it? Who would have thought that would be the tricky part. I probably won't have much interest in these pictures getting printed either, so let's just say I want to scan the negatives so I can post them online---what type of scanner do you use, might I ask?

4. AND, if I'm just getting a negative back, what in the world happens with the colors when I scan it in? I know in negatives they are usually backwards (or whatever the technical term for this is) so how do I flip the colors back to how they would look in a normal printed photo?

5. I looked on Adorama today at reels, chemicals, etc. for doing your own developing and got very overwhelmed. I thought you needed a dark room for this kind of bologna?! I didn't think you could just do it in your sink....

6. Thank you for the links. I got the dinky 120N (see, even with a $25 camera I still can't out-do yours ) so there is no flash to worry about for now, unless I splurge and buy the Holga $15 external flash.

7. Last but not least, your pictures are pretty darn awesome with this camera as usual, Jeff. Thank you for posting them and as always I'm looking forward to seeing more.

 

[seashoreCM]

You need a film scanner to scan negatives and transparencies. Very few film scanners will do 120 film (6x6 cm frames).

A film scanner has the light on the opposite side of the material being scanned as opposed to on the same side of the material for "regular" scanning. Combination film and paper flatbed scanners have the light for film scanning in the lid and usually only a one inch strip (enough for a 35mm frame positioned lengthwise) is illuminated.

 

[Gdad]

Alright, Jeff---I've got about a million questions/comments for you. I would PM you, but for anyone else who is as influenced by Jeff's cool purchases as I am, I have decided to make my questions public. Plus, my cousin is only 18, so I'm going to definitely have to teach her all about the camera, which I'm not ready at all to do.

1. YouTube is my friend. I used it to figure out how to properly use that 35mm film adapter that I bought with the camera---I just I just never thought anyone would be so bored that they would make a video of how to load film into a camera.

What is a 35mm adapter? I just tape the end of the film to the winding reel and stuff some cardboard on the top and bottom of the film cartridge so it does not bounce around too much. Of course this way you have to unload the film in total darkness and rewind it back into the canister by hand. By the way- do you know the Holga with 35mm film in it exposes the whole sheet of film including around the sprocket holes? As opposed to a regular 35mm shot which just exposes the frame and looks like THIS.

2. I got Fuji Reala, some Kodak TMax400 (I think that's what it's called, box is at home but it's B&W film) and some "normal" color film. Any particular film that you would recommend? Being from the digital generation---I wouldn't know one kind from another, I just bought what seemed cheap.

Okay the Fuji Reala is a C-41 film which means it can be processed at a photo-mart type place so long as they have a machine that takes it (most do) and a tech that knows how (some do- I found one the 2nd place I tried.) If you don't care about doing your own developing then for B&W I would recommend Kodak BW400CN- it can also be processed C-41. I think Ilford has a C-41 B&W also but I have never tried it.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/bw400cn/main2.jhtml

3. Okay so Sam's Club can probably develop my film, but not print or scan it? Who would have thought that would be the tricky part. I probably won't have much interest in these pictures getting printed either, so let's just say I want to scan the negatives so I can post them online---what type of scanner do you use, might I ask?

I use an Epson Perfection V300. If you are scanning negatives or anything transparent you will need something that has a built in illuminator. The V300 is not perfect since the illuminator is *just* wide enough to scan a 35mm strip. I have to scan the 120 film as two files then merge them in photoshop. Not a huge deal but kind of a pain. The one I have is cheap- like $89 at B&H- ones that take larger transparencies are 2-3x that amount.

4. AND, if I'm just getting a negative back, what in the world happens with the colors when I scan it in? I know in negatives they are usually backwards (or whatever the technical term for this is) so how do I flip the colors back to how they would look in a normal printed photo?

On the software that came with my Epson you can choose Color Neg- B&W Neg- and Color Positive (Slides)- so you don't have to figure out how to get that right. They do tend to look a little flat sometimes though so I usually adjust the levels.

5. I looked on Adorama today at reels, chemicals, etc. for doing your own developing and got very overwhelmed. I thought you needed a dark room for this kind of bologna?! I didn't think you could just do it in your sink....

For developing B&W Silver film- I ordered a changing bag (needed for extracting 35mm film from the Holga anyway)- a Tank/Reel kit and a spare reel from B&H. The reels are convertible from 35mm to 120 and the tank holds 1x 120 or 2x 35mm. That lot cost me about $40 and I was chewed on online because supposedly they are cheap/free on CL- Oh well. I also spent maybe another $25 at Wal-Mart on a couple beakers, some 1 Qt containers, a timer and a thermometer. Last I went to a local camera shop to buy the chemistry- all liquid concentrates that B&H will not ship- probably another $40 but this will do a LOT of film. No darkroom is required unless you want to wet print- you load the film onto the reels and seal in the tank inside the dark bag- then the chemicals are a 3 step process- rinse and dry. Times vary depending on temperature, film, etc but nothing all that complicated.

6. Thank you for the links. I got the dinky 120N (see, even with a $25 camera I still can't out-do yours ) so there is no flash to worry about for now, unless I splurge and buy the Holga $15 external flash.

I might get one of those too- They come in really cool colors. I see a lot of people who have SEVERAL Holgas.

7. Last but not least, your pictures are pretty darn awesome with this camera as usual, Jeff. Thank you for posting them and as always I'm looking forward to seeing more.

Thanks so much. They are obviously 'not-for-everyone' but I really like the artsy look done in-camera vs. on a computer- plus there is a certain satisfaction in capturing a cool image with a plastic box.

 

[gokenin]

Alright, Jeff---I've got about a million questions/comments for you. I would PM you, but for anyone else who is as influenced by Jeff's cool purchases as I am, I have decided to make my questions public. Plus, my cousin is only 18, so I'm going to definitely have to teach her all about the camera, which I'm not ready at all to do.

1. YouTube is my friend. I used it to figure out how to properly use that 35mm film adapter that I bought with the camera---I just I just never thought anyone would be so bored that they would make a video of how to load film into a camera.

2. I got Fuji Reala, some Kodak TMax400 (I think that's what it's called, box is at home but it's B&W film) and some "normal" color film. Any particular film that you would recommend? Being from the digital generation---I wouldn't know one kind from another, I just bought what seemed cheap.
Almost all color film that you get these days can be developed by any of the regular walmart,cvs style developers however when it comes th B&W film there are only two that I know of that you can take to them as well they are the Kodak BW400cn and the Ilford XP-2 these are both C41 process black and white. All other B&W film you will have to find a place that still processes them or develop them yourself
3. Okay so Sam's Club can probably develop my film, but not print or scan it? Who would have thought that would be the tricky part. I probably won't have much interest in these pictures getting printed either, so let's just say I want to scan the negatives so I can post them online---what type of scanner do you use, might I ask?
I dont know about Sam's but I know CVS will scan your films into digital as well. You may not get the best quality scan but they will do if you want high DPI scanner you will have to get one of your own
4. AND, if I'm just getting a negative back, what in the world happens with the colors when I scan it in? I know in negatives they are usually backwards (or whatever the technical term for this is) so how do I flip the colors back to how they would look in a normal printed photo?

5. I looked on Adorama today at reels, chemicals, etc. for doing your own developing and got very overwhelmed. I thought you needed a dark room for this kind of bologna?! I didn't think you could just do it in your sink....
I dont think that you need a darkroom to develop your own film you need a darkroom when you are taking the negative and you are transfering it to paper but just developing the negatives you dont need a blackroom. Again Youtube will be able to help here as there are shorts on how to develop your own negatives there.
6. Thank you for the links. I got the dinky 120N (see, even with a $25 camera I still can't out-do yours ) so there is no flash to worry about for now, unless I splurge and buy the Holga $15 external flash.

7. Last but not least, your pictures are pretty darn awesome with this camera as usual, Jeff. Thank you for posting them and as always I'm looking forward to seeing more.

welcome to the world of film cameras once bitten there is no going back

 

[Gdad]

welcome to the world of film cameras once bitten there is no going back

No kidding-

~~~~ Ann please STOP reading here ~~~~~~~~~~

I've been really wanting to try a camera with a top viewfinder and picked one of these (Super Ricohflex) up on Ebay for $20. Supposedly in working condition with the 35mm back and leather case.

~~~~ Ann you may now resume reading ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[annnewjerz]

Unfortunately, I have some follow-up.

What is a 35mm adapter? I just tape the end of the film to the winding reel and stuff some cardboard on the top and bottom of the film cartridge so it does not bounce around too much. Of course this way you have to unload the film in total darkness and rewind it back into the canister by hand. By the way- do you know the Holga with 35mm film in it exposes the whole sheet of film including around the sprocket holes? As opposed to a regular 35mm shot which just exposes the frame and looks like THIS.

I did know that with the 35mm it shows the sprocket holes, but I thought I read somewhere in my research that you have to make sure the lab that's developing your film doesn't trim it off of your prints if you get them. We'll see....like I said, may not even get prints made.

Even though I bought the "adapter" (which I had to buy, because I would NEVER think of just taping the film) I believe I still need a changing bag or to just stand in a closet when taking the film out. I'm sure I'll mess up at least the first roll or two, but for a buck or two a roll, that's okay.

If you don't care about doing your own developing then for B&W I would recommend Kodak BW400CN- it can also be processed C-41. I think Ilford has a C-41 B&W also but I have never tried it.

For now, I think I'll stick with learning to shoot on film rather than digital and maybe upgrade to my own developing later. Right now, it would be too many things to wrap my brain around.

I use an Epson Perfection V300. If you are scanning negatives or anything transparent you will need something that has a built in illuminator. The V300 is not perfect since the illuminator is *just* wide enough to scan a 35mm strip. I have to scan the 120 film as two files then merge them in photoshop. Not a huge deal but kind of a pain. The one I have is cheap- like $89 at B&H- ones that take larger transparencies are 2-3x that amount.

How big of a pain is "a pain" when it comes to scanning the 120 film as two files? I don't have the full Photoshop suite (yet), just Photoshop Elements and the normal Nikon software. For me, it seems silly to spend a huge amount on a scanner for pictures that come off of a $25 camera, so I like the $90 price tag but only if I will actually be able to use it for the 120 film without ripping my hair out.

I ordered a changing bag (needed for extracting 35mm film from the Holga anyway)

Dumb question, but how is removing the film and rolling it in a bag any easier than removing it in a completely dark room and rolling it? Is it just nicer since you don't have to be blind for a minute or two---or is a changing bag really better?

I see a lot of people who have SEVERAL Holgas.

Of course you have. I really hate to say it, but I originally wanted the 120GCFN because it looked like this. I think it's too cool for school, DH thinks it is the ugliest thing he has ever seen. Different strokes, different folks.

I figured I'd save the extra $25 and shipping from China and get the basic black 120N until I decided whether or not I liked it. For my wallet's sake---let's just hope I don't like it enough to get another

Thank you again so much for all of the input. Most of my questions are probably Google-able, but it's so much more fun to hear it brand new instead of reading responses from 2007.

 

[annnewjerz]

welcome to the world of film cameras once bitten there is no going back

Ugh, I sure hope this isn't true. It seems I never grow out of hobbies and interests, only into them---this doesn't make for a happy DH or a happy bank account.

 

[gokenin]

Have four diffrent film cameras, still have my eye out for a good prices 645 package from Pentax (medium format camera) and also a good Yashica TLR just love the look of them

 

[kaffinito]

I can second Jeff's recommendation on the Kodak BW400CN. I read too that it could be processed C-41.

See I got bitten by Jeff's post as well. I got a Holga and a vintage Diana "just for fun." There really is a ton of stuff out there for film and Holgas. It makes for some headachy reading (I've never shot film either) but at least I'm learning.

Just don't start to get interested in cyanographs or pinhole cameras. (You can make your DSLR into a pinhole camera and can use your Hoga lens on your DSLR as well)

Trust me, it's a bleak road down into the photographic abyss....

 

[jann1033]

No kidding-

~~~~ Ann please STOP reading here ~~~~~~~~~~

I've been really wanting to try a camera with a top viewfinder and picked one of these (Super Ricohflex) up on Ebay for $20. Supposedly in working condition with the 35mm back and leather case.

ok like a fool i've been reading this( and remember the actual days of film, unlike you young uns ) and i have that same type of camera from my dad in the 50s but no 35mm back it says "use kodak film 620" on it so not sure if that would even be possible to find ...i've been itching to get some B&w film and try it out but haven't yet.... now here you troublemakers are, pushing me past the edge of my resistance
it's just i wonder what to tell my husband when i pull it out and he asks where my couple K worth of equipment he just paid for is

a few yrs ago snapfish would develop your color film and put it on a cd. not sure if they still do it or not but that would be cheaper probably than scanning it in. i think my local grocery store still does as well..

 

[gokenin]

you simply say that you are expanding your photgraphic ablities. Also buying a medium format camera will actually get you a picture with more dymanic range that you current DSLR can achieve unless you have one of the very exspenive full frame or even more expensive digital medium format cameras of course you can get a medium format camera that is compatable with this baby http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/519133-REG/Hasselblad_70370527_CF_39MS_Digital_Back.html#specifications

then we are really talking about costly

 

[jann1033]

i did just see that 120 and 620 are the same size. you can get it processed here and put on a cd....and they sell 120 respooled for 620 cameras as well at b&H for $11 a roll...otherwise you have to respool it yourself in the dark, aww the good old days
http://www.dwaynesphoto.com/newsite2006/B-W-film-processing.html

 

[Gdad]

Unfortunately, I have some follow-up.

I did know that with the 35mm it shows the sprocket holes, but I thought I read somewhere in my research that you have to make sure the lab that's developing your film doesn't trim it off of your prints if you get them. We'll see....like I said, may not even get prints made.

They won't trim the edges but they will cut in between images that may overlap or have a cool light leak or something. Better to let you decide where to cut and scan.

Even though I bought the "adapter" (which I had to buy, because I would NEVER think of just taping the film) I believe I still need a changing bag or to just stand in a closet when taking the film out. I'm sure I'll mess up at least the first roll or two, but for a buck or two a roll, that's okay.

Maybe just a buck or two but PRECIOUS HOLGA IMAGES!

For now, I think I'll stick with learning to shoot on film rather than digital and maybe upgrade to my own developing later. Right now, it would be too many things to wrap my brain around.

When the lab tells you it takes three weeks to develop your TMax you may reconsider. Thats why I got frustrated- but then again you may have better labs where you live- I'm kind of in the sticks.

How big of a pain is "a pain" when it comes to scanning the 120 film as two files? I don't have the full Photoshop suite (yet), just Photoshop Elements and the normal Nikon software. For me, it seems silly to spend a huge amount on a scanner for pictures that come off of a $25 camera, so I like the $90 price tag but only if I will actually be able to use it for the 120 film without ripping my hair out.

I think PSE will do photomerge- right? I can send you two scans if you like and you can give it a try. The main thing is to make sure the exposure is consistent between the two scans otherwise 1/2 your picture will be lighter/darker.

Dumb question, but how is removing the film and rolling it in a bag any easier than removing it in a completely dark room and rolling it? Is it just nicer since you don't have to be blind for a minute or two---or is a changing bag really better?

When I went to MK last Friday I had the bag in my back pocket- I remember changing film in line at the Carousel and at the Polynesian.

Of course you have. I really hate to say it, but I originally wanted the 120GCFN because it looked like this. I think it's too cool for school, DH thinks it is the ugliest thing he has ever seen. Different strokes, different folks.

I like those- I was thinking about getting the Twi-Lite Zone one next personally though.

http://www.adorama.com/CZHNTWZ.html

I have also seen a lot of people paint or sticker them up too.

I figured I'd save the extra $25 and shipping from China and get the basic black 120N until I decided whether or not I liked it. For my wallet's sake---let's just hope I don't like it enough to get another

I think next you should find a nice Nikon FE next. THAT is a lot of fun too- and not such a streatch from your DSLR. F100 is nice as well if you want AF.

Thank you again so much for all of the input. Most of my questions are probably Google-able, but it's so much more fun to hear it brand new instead of reading responses from 2007.

No problem- glad I could 'help'. Film will really make you a better photographer because you really stop and consider each and every shot.

 

[annnewjerz]

When the lab tells you it takes three weeks to develop your TMax you may reconsider. Thats why I got frustrated- but then again you may have better labs where you live- I'm kind of in the sticks.

THREE WEEKS?! O-------M----------G. That's a long time. You're right, I might reconsider. Not getting to see the shots I took on lunch today was killer, let alone waiting weeks.

I think PSE will do photomerge- right? I can send you two scans if you like and you can give it a try. The main thing is to make sure the exposure is consistent between the two scans otherwise 1/2 your picture will be lighter/darker.

Yes, I can do photomerge in PE6 (although I never have). Please do, if you wouldn't mind. It's andrea.lusas@gmail.com

When I went to MK last Friday I had the bag in my back pocket- I remember changing film in line at the Carousel and at the Polynesian.

Good point. I guess trying to find a completely pitch black room anywhere but my house might present a problem.

I like those- I was thinking about getting the Twi-Lite Zone one next personally though.

DH told me to buy this one instead of the colored one. Must be a "men" thing.

I think next you should find a nice Nikon FE next. THAT is a lot of fun too- and not such a streatch from your DSLR. F100 is nice as well if you want AF.

I think the next thing I need to do is stop reading the Photo Board so much and stop making so many purchases!! ::hops over to E-bay to look at said FE and F100::

No problem- glad I could 'help'. Film will really make you a better photographer because you really stop and consider each and every shot.

As a kid of the digital age, I do take that for granted. If I'm not in the mood to pay much attention and sort of half-a$$ing it, I know I can just take 5 slightly different shots and delete 4 of them when I get home. Today I put in my first roll of 120 film and took a whole 6 pictures over the course of an hour lunch break. It definitely made me more aware of what I was doing.

 

[kaffinito]

Just to ask a small related question - what size changing bag is the best size to carry around with you? Is 17x17 too big?

 

[Gdad]

I got this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/107620-REG/General_Brand__Large_Changing_Bag_27x30_.html

I think a small one would actually be better for carrying around for the Holga- this one rolls up to about the size of a soda can.

 

[Todd_H]

Great thread so far.

I've been wanting to start dabbling in film. My dad gave me his old Minolta SRT-201, a flash, and a couple of lenses for Christmas (a 50mm f/1.7 and a 24 or 28mm f/2.8, I can't remember off hand).

I've been taking the NYIP course for about 9 months now and finished the film section a few months ago. Most of it made sense from a theory standpoint, however the developing section was VERY intimidating to me . Not sure I have the patience for it, but it sure has captured my curiosity. I may take the SRT-201 down to WDW and shoot some film if I can practice with it a bit before we leave.

Love the look of the Holgas, though. Like a Lensbaby, it just screams for you to get creative with it!