An end to pool hopping for DVC

[CarolMN]

FWIW, DVC Members have always been able to hop to the pool at the WL. The only hotel not included in the pool hopping perk was the AKL. As you know, SAB was removed from the list when the BCV opened (due to concerns about overcrowding). DVC Members are supposed to call the resort ahead of time to see if pool hopping is permitted and they may be asked to leave if the pool becomes overcrowded.

Again, FWIW, there are almost always "pool crashers" to be found at the overcrowded pools. To me "pool crashers" are those who are not staying at the resort in question and are not authorized DVC pool hoppers. "Pool crashers" are a much larger problem than authorized DVC pool hoppers. Unfortunately, it costs $$ to keep people out. I haven't seen any complaints of overcrowding (or not being able to get a chair poolside) at SAB since Disney actively began handing out wristbands and limiting entry to those who are entitled to be there. Therefore, contrary to popular opinion, I do not think the addition of the BCV has negatively impacted conditions at SAB.

I am a DVC Member, but I have never pool hopped.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

WFH:

You're right, both our spheres of influence don't extend beyond who we talk to in our lives and the various postings on these boards. I'm sorry if I offended you - it was not intentional.

DemoBri1 asked what I thought was an honest, sincere question of you and got nothing less than what I perceived as a not so nice response. Thus I proceeded to interject into the discussion. I'm not asking you to prove anything to me, but rather to back up statements that you make. I believe the Villas and what came with them add value to WL - you believe it takes away value. I tried to lay out some specific facts and instances - maybe not as eloquently as others here, but an attempt nonetheless...

Perhaps "value" is a perception thing and while mine may be enhanced yours is not. We may never know.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

As you know, SAB was removed from the list when the BCV opened

Actually, I did not know. It does explain why I've seen more complaints about WL than the expected culprit, SAB.

I do not think the addition of the BCV has negatively impacted conditions at SAB.

Well, if the rules are different at SAB, that's understandable.

-WFH

 

[CarolMN]

IMHO, "pool crashers" and not DVC pool hoppers are the largest share of the WL problem. DVC Members report that there are lots of Fort Wilderness guests who think that they are entitled to use the WL feature pool (not true) and also many locals who attempt to use the pool. When the CMs check IDs (as they sometimes do when the pool gets crowded), many, many people get up and leave. And it's not the DVC pool hoppers who are leaving, as they are entitled to be there.

DVC Members are not allowed to hop anywhere at all during the peak season weeks such as Easter, Christmas, July 4, etc. I just don't believe the DVC pool hoppers are a problem. If Disney chose to spend the $$ to limit entry to authorized users, there would NOT be a problem at any of the deluxe hotel pools. Obviously, JHMO. YMMV.

 

[WDW2002]

I have never understood why DVC got the pool hopping thing anyway.

Lets look at it this way...
You buy a house, it has a pool that you can use anytime you'd like. Are you neighbors going to let you use their pools also, any time you'd like ?? Not likely. Are you willing to let your neighbors use your pool any time they'd like?? Again not likely.

So a person "buys" DVC but not being satisfied with the pool they just "bought" goes and uses their "neighbors" pool. It just doens't make sense to me.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I'm sorry if I offended you - it was not intentional

No offense taken... no need for apology. I'm tired and distressed, not offended.

The gist of all this is that there have been customer complaints, customer complaints that have led to the discussion of ending DVC's pool-hopping, which I understand is a perq of membership and therefore part of the current allotment of Magic.

To whatever extent I misunderstood and misrepresented DVC's exact policies in this thread, acknowledging such mistakes doesn't affect the real problem.

It's tiring to post about the half-day-park, for instance... because someone is always ready to delineate the nine hours they spent there one day. These individuals are so pleased with themselves for "proving" the place is not a half-day park that they completely ignore the REAL guest complaints and the REAL attendance numbers and REAL spending averages that earned the joint its nickname in the first place.

Someone needs to acknowledge those real problems. When someone tries to acknowledge them here, they get beaten down with the pretty little proofs that affect nothing, least of all, the actual problem.

I am tired of people using the smoke and mirrors to sweep over the problems... but I'm not offended by it. I am distressed that so many otherwise intelligent people disregard existing guest complaints, but I'm not offended by it.

I think there is a real problem with the DVC infrastructure. We are now seeing guest complaints concerning the DVC infrastructure. I say the solution is to fix the infrastructure, some respond by arguing over the semantics I used pointing out the infrastructure, and claim that they have thusly proven the infrastructure sound.

I believe I addressed DemoBri1's question adequately... using analogies to put us in positions similar (but more obviously egregious) to deluxe guests who cannot get a chair at their pool, or who have to waste an extra 25 minutes on the dock because this launch is full. None of us in this thread have made this complaint for our own part, so I attempted to paint a picture of how it could feel.

you believe it takes away value

No, I believe there are complaints about the value. I believe I offered an explanation for the root cause of the problems leading to the complaints. I do not believe I made a personal assessment of value... VWL opened after my family had already decided Disney's resorts were no longer worth the extra cost over staying off-site, so I have no personal horror story involving DVC bathers.

Something interesting: even though I've done nothing in this thread but been "proven" wrong, this problem would not have come up now (and perhaps not ever) if Disney had made the different decision my theory suggested they should have made in the first place.

-WFH

 

[KNWVIKING]

... I've spent about $23,000.00 in 3 yrs for my DVC points. I'll be gratefull for any spiff or perk WDW chooses to bestow upon me. Maybe it has to do with the "show" and "magic" and "pixie dust" and every other buzzword Disney is famous for.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I just don't get it...
I have never understood why DVC got the pool hopping thing anyway.

An interesting question. And one that has it’s roots in the initial ‘concept’ of the Vacation Club (you know. Back when there were three mountains on the logo!). Anyway, the concept was that by buying a DVC interest you would “OWN A PIECE OF THE MAGIC”! You would NOT be a renter. A transient ‘guest’. You were an owner!!! And as an owner you were NOT merely an owner of a particular DVC resort (heck there was only one anyway!)!! NO!!! You were an ‘owner” of ALL the magic!! Free tickets!! discounts you never even considered! When the Swan and Dolphin (and I think Boardwalk before it was a DVC) boats were restricted to their hotel guests only (and I think there was a tram involved as well) DVC “Owners of the Magic” could hop on at any stop, flash their DVC card and receive “Royal” treatment!! And because you “OWNED” a piece of EVERYTHING, that entitled you to swim at any of “YOUR” resorts!! And what constituted “YOUR” resort? It had to be Disney! That’s it!! After all, you “OWNED” a piece of the Poly, just as you did the Floridian, just as you did the Vacation Club (before it was Old Key West)!

They sold that concept to the new members as well as the staff. I can tell you stories, back when the thing first started about how "respected" a DVCer was treated by CMs. They all seemed to know that there were a few perks that went along with being an "OWNER" as opposed to being a renter.

Ahhhh! But somehow (after the marketing was no longer needed, talk about a Baron being gulable!!!) that concept fell by the wayside. And another piece of Disney “magic” bites the dust.

 

[Captain Hook]

How many DVC members actually pool hop? Our family never took advantage the previous times we visted WDW. I dont like the fact the offer it to us as a perk when we sign on the deed, and take it away without some compinsation.

 

[Mouse Ears]

I haven't seen this written or posted, but I looked at the pool-hopping privilege as a way to minimize a common objection to DVC membership. Since there are many resorts at WDW with a variety of themes and offerings, some people like to try the different ones. The pool-hopping at least makes you feel like your welcome to enjoy the atmosphere at the other resorts even if you are staying in the DVC resorts. With so many new DVC options on-site, that spin may not be necessary for much longer.

I'm surprised to learn from this thread that we are able to shower-hop and meal-steal as well. I have never seen that in any of the DVC literature.

M.E. <-- with shower cap ready

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

Originally posted by CarolMN
...Again, FWIW, there are almost always "pool crashers" to be found at the overcrowded pools. To me "pool crashers" are those who are not staying at the resort in question and are not authorized DVC pool hoppers. "Pool crashers" are a much larger problem than authorized DVC pool hoppers. Unfortunately, it costs $$ to keep people out....

I am a DVC Member, but I have never pool hopped.

Likewise, I've never pool hopped either. The pools at OKW and VWL have suited us just fine when we've stayed at WDW using our points.

IMHO, Carol defines the root of the problem here - pool crashers. It's just a different version of the same core problem you have everywhere - an overabuse of a privilege that Disney later feels is costing them money so they rescind the privilege. Take for example refillable mugs, free parking, etc. Now obviously it's not just the only problem, but I'm sure that it contributes. It's a societal thing (IMHO) that has affected how Disney does it's business that I'll save for another discussion.

As an added note - if you are staying at the VWL you have full privileges of the resort, including the feature pool. Likewise with the BCV - you get to use the quiet pool and SAB. Same with BWV. Obviously OKW is an all DVC resort so you can use all the pools there. You can't pool hop to SAB (unless you're staying at the BCV) or AKL and Disney has the right to limit that privilege based on pool capacity and hotel occupancy rates.

As a personal note, with 2 new DVC resorts being added to the WDW property, I'm not so sure pool hopping is a perk that DVC members really need. Stay at a different DVC resort next time if you want the feel for that resort...

 

[Lewisc]

I read a rumor (at least a year ago) that Disney was going to redo River Country as either a replacement for pool hoping for DVC or as a themed pool for Wilderness cabins. I guess that's not currently being considered.
As the number of DVC owners increase it makes sense that at some time pool hopping may end. Years ago someone posted that pool hopping was not a benefit listed in any of the legal documents but rather just a courtesy that could be eliminated.

 

[DemoBri1]

OK...I guess I stirred the pot a great deal here. First of all WFH...are you saying that by adding these extra villa rooms (less than 150 @ VWL and 280 @ BCV) that this is the cause of boat launches being full and buses being overcrowded??

It seems to me that the total number of DVC villas at these resorts are significantly less than the total number of "deluxe" rooms at these resorts.

I agree with your point that maybe the infrastructure wasn't thought out a great deal, but it certainly is erroneous on your part to suggest that DVC resorts are the main cause of this "overcrowding" you refer to.

Keep in mind that ALL Resort guests (yes that includes people staying in "deluxe" resorts) used to be able to pool hop to any resort pool. I guess Disney has kept the pool hop perk for us in exchange for not getting daily maid/cleaning service.

Also WFH, please keep your comments such as:

judging from the defensiveness of the reactions so far, I'm thinking pre-wadded panties would be huge sellers at DVC resorts...

to yourself. There is no need for such an unintelligent statement. We are all Disney people here, and this is supposed to be fun (or at least I thought so).

WDW2000 in answer to your "neighbor pool" theory I think DVC-Landbaron summed it up well. When you buy into DVC you are an owner. This means than any pool tied to a DVC resort is actually your pool. I understand your analogy, and it was a good one, but I think you were a little unclear on the whole DVC ownership concept.

That's all I have to say on this subject. I apologize to everyone for creating such an out of control thread here. I just felt that something had to be said.

 

[TiggerFreak]

Originally posted by DemoBri1
I guess Disney has kept the pool hop perk for us in exchange for not getting daily maid/cleaning service.

The Mousekeeping service is paid for out of our dues, so it is not a perk. Doc or one of the other long time owners may correct me on this, but I believe that DVC did studies , surveys and analysis in order to determine how much Mousekeeping an average DVC member would need /want. These services and frequency of are a part of the contract. Any extra service can be purchased on a per guest basis.

Pool hooping is a perk. I have not used it. Maybe never will. But I agree with many others that DVC members do not add signifcantly to the problems. I just don't believe that there are that many of us that pool hop on a regular and consistant basis.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

it certainly is erroneous on your part to suggest that DVC resorts are the main cause

Actually, it was Disney, not me, who pinned the blame on DVC by floating the trial balloon that DVC might lose perqs as a result of complaints.

We've gone through this already... when commenting on Disney's proposed action, I made some erroneous assumptions about DVC's pool-hopping policies and have been corrected, most effectively by CarolMN. Her information suggests that a) the problem is not a direct result of DVC's pool-hopping and therefore b) Disney's possibly ending that perq would be an ineffective remedy, at best.

I fully admit my mistake... I gave Disney too much credit for identifying the root cause of a problem before they suggested a draconian solution. As it turns out, their reaction is nearly insanely off target as far as the actual problem is concerned.

Shall we move on to the question "why would Disney punish DVCers for something that's not their fault," or would you prefer to re-iterate how wrong I was, again?

Also WFH, please keep your comments such as:.... to yourself.

No. Ignore me if the things I say so damage your psyche.

-WFH

 

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by DemoBri1

WDW2000 in answer to your "neighbor pool" theory I think DVC-Landbaron summed it up well. When you buy into DVC you are an owner. This means than any pool tied to a DVC resort is actually your pool. I understand your analogy, and it was a good one, but I think you were a little unclear on the whole DVC ownership concept.

Maybe i do not fully understand DVC and thats fine, I don't indeed to buy into it. But from what I have read (here on the DIS) is people talking about how they bought "fill in the resort" DVC points, it makes sense that if you are going to buy into a resort you should like the resort and all its ammenities.

I actually have no opinion on DVC pool hopping or not, it makes no difference to me one way or another. I just have never understood why it would/should be a perk for DVC.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I apologize to everyone for creating such an out of control thread here. I just felt that something had to be said.

Not sure how much you've lurked around this particular board, but if it isn't much stick around and you'll see some truely out of control threads . No aplologies required.

Actually, it was Disney, not me, who pinned the blame on DVC by floating the trial balloon that DVC might lose perqs as a result of complaints.

Now, now, oh frozen one. Not to harp on you being wrong, but you know much better than to have bought into this rediculous justification put out by the Disney spin machine .

ps. Demo - don't let the cryogenic cranium get to you - that is what he wants . He may leave a chill everywhere he goes, but between the nasties he has some good thoughts (as much as I hate to admit it ).

 

[DisneyKidds]

I just have never understood why it would/should be a perk for DVC.

Why would it? For no other reason than Disney simply decided to make it part of the concept - the World as your oyster, to experience and enjoy as you please, without boundaries. A rather nice concept that people appreciated. Yes, most people do love the resorts they buy into, but Disney used to be in the habit of giving people even more to enjoy than others generally would.

****Note to self.....schedule electric shock therapy session - you sound too much like the Baron and must right your mind .......****

Why should they? Well, there was no reason why they should have in the first place, other than that habit of theirs. Now they should because that is what they sold people. Yeah, everything is 'subject to change', but this is a change that would be stupid. If it truely is something that was floated in a conference room there is another hairbrained MBA that just doesn't get it.

 

[DemoBri1]

Oh...it takes a lot more than that to get to me. I just felt that it was an inappropriate comment, and one that I don't feel our much esteemed colleague would like to have made about him.

WDW, while I do like the BCV area, some of the DVCers cannot buy into their favorite resort because it is sold out. There is the possibility of getting lucky on the resale front, but there aren't alot of resales out there for Boardwalk or Wilderness Lodge.

Buying in at a resort allows you to book a room 11 months ahead of your checkout date with DVC, however if you are booking a room at a non-home resort, you are only able to book 7 months ahead. It may seem rediculous to have to book this far in advance, but when you are dealing with the few rooms we have available to us, that is what needs to be done.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

one that I don't feel our much esteemed colleague would like to have made about him.

Actually, speculation about the state of my panties would be refreshing and comparatively harmless next to the speculation about my mental health and personal life I've had to deal with here...

-WFH